Please critique the Drums

[JustMike]

I'm kind of new at recording drums, although I used to be a live sound engineer for many years. Anyway, tell me what you think about the drum recording and how they fit in the mix, how the drum sound fits the song, etc.
I really want to become a drum recording guru, so let me have it!
I recorded a 4 piece kit with D112 inside kik, SP-C1 in front of kik, Beta 57 on snare, SM-57's on toms and Rodent-5's OH in XY pattern. All thru a A&H MixWiz thru RME Firefece into Sonar 5 PE
I know that my toms are a little out of balance, but I'm not sure where I should place everything as far as busses, compression, etc.
I'm using Sonitus Comps & EQ's as well as Waves C1, R1, & L2 (on the OH Subgroup/Buss) I then exported to SoundForge8 to "master" using Waves L1 & Convert to MP3.
Let me have it!Here ya go.

[dim light]

I want to have sex with you!

Hey you forgot to upload the mp3...

[JustMike]

OK, I fixed it. Nice first post

[DirkB]

You need to spend some time on the tuning of the bassdrum and especially the toms.

Toms are too loud and flabby...

The rest is not bad, keep at it and you'll get there.

Greetings,
Dirk

[JustMike]

Thanks Dirk,
What do you mean about tuning the kik drum? I completely understand about the toms though...

[bkspitfire]

Yep, sounds pretty good, snare sounds nice and poppy.

Did you use the WZ3 version allen heath? Were all the parts recorded through theses pres?

Originally Posted by JustMike

I'm kind of new at recording drums, although I used to be a live sound engineer for many years. Anyway, tell me what you think about the drum recording and how they fit in the mix, how the drum sound fits the song, etc.
I really want to become a drum recording guru, so let me have it!
I recorded a 4 piece kit with D112 inside kik, SP-C1 in front of kik, Beta 57 on snare, SM-57's on toms and Rodent-5's OH in XY pattern. All thru a A&H MixWiz thru RME Firefece into Sonar 5 PE
I know that my toms are a little out of balance, but I'm not sure where I should place everything as far as busses, compression, etc.
I'm using Sonitus Comps & EQ's as well as Waves C1, R1, & L2 (on the OH Subgroup/Buss) I then exported to SoundForge8 to "master" using Waves L1 & Convert to MP3.
Let me have it!Here ya go.

[studjo]

did you eq the kick? if so, don't touch it the next time you record a kick - eq the shit out of it while mixing or you'll be painting yourself to much in a corner while tracking.

I agree with Dirk btw


Jo

[JustMike]

Everything was recorded flat thru a MixWiz 16:2DX except I rolled back the 60hz low shelf on the OH's.

[dim light]

Hey I have the mixwizard 16 here to and rme adi 8 pro for conversion. I dig my setup and the A&H works great on drums.

I like your recording but the kit is not glued well together. The tom sound is kind of cool - sounds funky and fresh. The kick needs some treatment or different tuning and the snare to. I think you should try to get some of the room sound on the snare and get the kick glued to the rest. It sounds like you recorded to hot or did something in the mix process -

Keep on recording - the mixwizard is great.

Thanks for sharing!

[JustMike]

Well, there's some pretty radical EQ & compression going on in the kik drum track. I used the Sonitus EQ & Waves Ren comp. Then I L2'd the drum sub ever so slightly. But I know my levels are good. I tracked everything at -10 to -6, but the subgroups are slammin' pretty hard, like -3 and the snare buss is occasionally hitting 0.
Then when I exported to SoundForge, the track was riding at -6. After I "mastered" with Waves L1, it was peaking just below 0. I converted to mp3 at 320(?) and that's what you're listening to.

[dim light]

Still sound too hot to me - You need to find the sweet spot on your mixwizard. Hard to tell - now when you have used the plug-ins... and EQ.

The drums should sound good without the processing...

[zakco]

Snare sounds good. Hit well too.

I agree with others about the kick though. Doesn't really "glue" with the rest of the kit. Not sure how much of that is tuning and how much is your choice of processing. A bit too "clicky" for my taste. Also, the overheads sound distorted to me. Perhaps you've pushed the compressors a bit too hard.....

I'd be interested in hearing this track without any of the waves limiters....

-Z-

[JustMike]

OK, I completely removed the comps on the OH's and I flattened out the EQ on the kik some. I heard some beach ball in the kik which i pulled out with a broad EQ in the mid. I let the oh's breathe and flattened their EQ as well to bring in the toms. So because the toms are now in the OH's, I tightened up the gate on the tom mics and I'm using them more as an accent. But now the rack tom is centerd in the mix because, well, that's where it is- in the center of the kit.
Anyway, here it is.
I really appreciate your input guys-er..folks. I can only assume the one that wanted to have sex with me is a she ( I hope).

[dim light]

I'm a hairy, scary man! 555 - 545 21 - I thought you where are a girl? The snare hits where so soft - haha - just kidding fukkface.

The kick need to come down or glue better - there is something strange with the song - I get the feeling you have put a tremolo over the drums - they don't breathe the right way. The OH sounds very two dimensional and the guitars are muddy and the bass is need some mid. You need to address these elements before I judge the drums. Maybe it's time to concentrate on the other instruments and the drums will automatically sound better. I don't know - good luck with it!

[JustMike]

dim one- Ignore the guitars and bass for now, I just put them in there for reference. They're going to be rerecorded. Maybe I'll post just the drum mix.
FYI- I'm pretty hairy and scary myself, so I don't think it'll ever work out-thanks anyway, but since you're givin' it to me on the mix, I value your opinion. Ya know, your comments got me thinking, maybe my monitors are out of phase? They're in the usual position about 3 feet from my face, but I have to back up about 3-4 feet to hear the bass.
I'll get back to you.
Thanks again.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by JustMike

I'm kind of new at recording drums, although I used to be a live sound engineer for many years. Anyway, tell me what you think about the drum recording and how they fit in the mix, how the drum sound fits the song, etc.
I really want to become a drum recording guru, so let me have it!
I recorded a 4 piece kit with D112 inside kik, SP-C1 in front of kik, Beta 57 on snare, SM-57's on toms and Rodent-5's OH in XY pattern. All thru a A&H MixWiz thru RME Firefece into Sonar 5 PE
I know that my toms are a little out of balance, but I'm not sure where I should place everything as far as busses, compression, etc.
I'm using Sonitus Comps & EQ's as well as Waves C1, R1, & L2 (on the OH Subgroup/Buss) I then exported to SoundForge8 to "master" using Waves L1 & Convert to MP3.
Let me have it!Here ya go.

The performance is great.
The kick is a bit clicky for my taste.
I would redo the kick mic balance- more SP-C1 and less D112.
The snare is a bit loud.

Have a listen to the Tea Party.
You have a similar approach with your riffing and I think that sort of "modern-Bonham" approach would really suit.

I would parallel process your drums with a couple of 1176's and maybe a distressor on the snare.
I also love processing the snare track through a Groove Tubes Vipre running really hot back into Protools and then mixed into the drum sub.

Have a listen to this:

http://www.jamesrichmond.com/apart_rough2.mp3

I know the bottom end is all weird- it is just an arrangement mix for the drummers benefit.
The snare is less smacky and more thuddy- maybe this you like- but then again, maybe you'd hate it.

But I love the tune.

[JustMike]

Thanks James. I listened to your tune. Similar groove on the drums for sure. Did you listen to my second mix? I posted it later in the thread.
I would love to have the equipment you've got, but I'm doing everything ITB.
The snare sound in your mix isn't what I'm looking for, but on the breakdowns, the drum mix sounds really good.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by JustMike

Thanks James. I listened to your tune. Similar groove on the drums for sure. Did you listen to my second mix? I posted it later in the thread.
I would love to have the equipment you've got, but I'm doing everything ITB.
The snare sound in your mix isn't what I'm looking for, but on the breakdowns, the drum mix sounds really good.

No worries- it is all a personal thing init?

If you'd like me to do a pass of your dry snare track through the Vipre I am happy to do so, gratis.
Who is your guitar player?
If you are interested in collaborating- let me know.
I'm based in Switzerland for most of the year but spend a lot of time in New York and London.

[dim light]

JUST keep it up MIKE! I will be here rockin!

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by JustMike

Thanks James. I listened to your tune. Similar groove on the drums for sure. Did you listen to my second mix? I posted it later in the thread.
I would love to have the equipment you've got, but I'm doing everything ITB.
The snare sound in your mix isn't what I'm looking for, but on the breakdowns, the drum mix sounds really good.

Oh didnt see the second mp3.
Yeah better for sure-on the kick but it is a lil bit wooden sounding maybe is a bit lacking in dynamics - sounds like the same velocity all the time.
Love the dropped beats all over the place- definitely my sort of stuff.
What verb you using on the snare?
It is a touch loud- maybe roll off some upper mids on the snare reverb.
How are your overheads and toms panned?

Thanks for the compliment- it is very early in the tracking stage at the moment.
All the drums are straight to protools through Focusrite Reds, the Vipre and some ISA's, some TL Pre's.
I'm buying another Vipre in the next few weeks though so might redo some of them.

JR

[weedmaker]

Critique after second clip....

Solid drumming! Keep it up thumbsup

OH sound ... well - get or rent a decent OH mikes (I assume you have good cymbals; mike selection and technique depends a lot on your recording space though!!)

I don't like snare sound - too dry, sterile and anemic (ymmv on this!), kick sounds more natural but it's now too boxy; it should be somwhere between first and second clip sound (replace the D112, maybe?)

More space around kit wouldn't be out of place

For this style of drumming I'd go for heavy 2-buss compression and balance the final result with unprocessed version!

Final drum sound and production are going to depend on singer style (if there is one) and type of album you are going to make.

Don't take this too seriously, though .... If you like your recording and have confidence in it, just ignore all this mumbo-jumbo!!

Cheers

[JustMike]

Thanks for the offer James, but I want to learn how to do it myself! BTW, I'm in Florida, not too far from the mouse.
Weed, thanks for the input. Maybe I'll mix ix the front kik mic, I took it out after I F'd with the D112 EQ.
What do you mean by more space around Kit?
Do you think different mics would make that much diff on oh's? Like I posted earlier- Rodent-5's in XY config. I might be able to borrow some KM 184's. But I suspect I've got more fundamental problems (placement, mixing, etc.).

[kats]

I like your original version better. It sounds like it'll work in a mix. No fricken way is the snare too loud either - I'm reading the future right now, but I'm listening to these drums in the context of a mix that they will sit in. The kick will not sound very "clicky" as it does now, and you'll lose snare. The toms might drown, but you'll find out soon enough.

Richmondjames...WTF is with those drums, they sound like shit.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by kats

Richmondjames...WTF is with those drums, they sound like shit.

????
It is still in the arranging stage- absolutely nothing is mixed.
Jesus- a bit harsh there fella- give me a break yeah?

[kats]

Woah sorry man! I didn't read your post carefully........cool song though, your right.

My apologies again

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by kats

Woah sorry man! I didn't read your post carefully........cool song though, your right.

My apologies again

No problem- we're cool...

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by kats

Woah sorry man! I didn't read your post carefully........cool song though, your right.

My apologies again

No problem- we're cool...

[dim light]

WTF!!!

What's up with does drums -

[SRS]

Nice foundation. I am listening to the 2nd mix now as I type. There is a correlation issue with the kick drum in relation to the rest of the kit. The kick sounds big. That is a good thing, but it doesn't fit in quite right. Sounds like a 24 inch drum??? Or it has both heads on it, and if it has both heads, try removing the front head. You have to either bring the other elements of the kit (Snare, toms, OH) to meet the kick or match the kick with the other parts. I would prefer you try and match the other parts to the kick, cause the kick is the driving force. Or you can come somewhere in the middle for a nice compromise. Here are my suggestions... Hit the kick with a little compression (or more compression). This will dry it out a tad if done right. I like the snare pretty well. If you have compression on it, try and make your attack time around 60 or so ms. This will allow the intial "hit" through and keep the crack going. The toms souns a bit flimsy for my taste. Tune... tune... tune... then tune some more to get them right. You have to work with dampening a lot on the toms. A trick that has worked for me quite a bit is to place cotton balls inside the toms where they are free to rest on the bottom head for natural dampening. Only use a few though. Now, on to the overheads. I hear either too much compression or the OH are too close to the kit/cymbals. The cymbals are not mixing right with the rest of the kit (too prominent). I have used NT-5s for OH. They work well. My current favorite are Rode NTK mics for OHs. They add the warmth without being harsh. (tubes!). And lastly, I hear a touch too much verb on the snare, or maybe not the right verb...

These are all my opinions. I think the playing is solid and with a good groove indeed. You are very close, and I heard the changes in your two mixes. Keep going in that direction and you will do well. Good luck!

Sorry for the typos if any... I did this real fast!

[dim light]

My girl said I had cotton balls and that they where no use in da bed!

I will try that---