New Micing Technique!

jbuntz · 10th March 2006

At least I think it's new. Comb filtering always pisses me off! I've always wanted to blend mics on guitar cabs that were say a foot or two apart in terms of sound except the sum of the mics is never an in-between point and the arbitrary cancelation are rarely desirable. Something hit me and now I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it before. Apply the same concept that turns a comb-filter into an allpass filter, which has a flat frequency response. It's still not 100% perfect since gutiar cabs and kick drums are going to have different phase response depending on the the position of the mic etc. but it definately helps. Here's what you do:

1. Place a close mic (see 609)
2. Place a mic further back (see 121)
3. Place a 3rd mic EXACTLY twice the distance as the second mic from the first mic, not from the source (See U87)
4. Flip the phase on the 3rd mic (see 3mics). It will now fill in the holes in the frequency response that the sum of the first two made the second mic (see 2mics)
5. Put each source on it's own fader and you have a very cool eq.

3 mics is all the sources blended at unity and I'm not saying this is the ultimate guitar sound but don't underestimate the potentional of this technique. I want to try it on kick drum too. For shhits and giggles, flip the phase of the 87 back to normal and see how awful it sounds. Also another thing to keep in mind is that I did this test on a 1x12 combo and that on 4x12 cabs, there are 4 sources of sound so it takes some work to get this to work right.

I guess if this doesn't already have a name, you could call it allpass micing. Or maybe you could name it after me so I can feel special. Buntz allpass micing (Blumlein got his!). Ha. Whatever.

flanger001 · 14th March 2006

I have little idea about comb-filtering or allpass filtering or all that. That stuff is yet above my reach; I usually just move a microphone around until I like how it sounds and I do small eq tweaks once I've got the sound.

That said, your miking technique sounds interesting. I'm not going to say good or bad because I'd have to hear it in a mix. I mean, it sounds kinda rank for a solo guitar anyway, but that could be anything including the amp, where you actually decided to put the mic on the speaker.

THAT said, this sounds like an awfully niche guitar sound. There isn't much low end and it sounds kinda boxy. I don't know sir!

wallace · 14th March 2006

That seems like a pretty cool idea, and I'd keep messing with it. However, the guitar sound itself seemed kind of weird, and I think you could get that sound with one mic and a few pedals or a different amp. It seems more like you're creating the sound with the mics than with the amp, since all those samples (mics) sound really different. It's interesting concept though you're adding a lot more noise with each mic. If you want to use 2 mics out of phase, isn't there a box that will let you dial in how much phase you want (Little Labs maybe)?

jbuntz · 16th March 2006

like I said, I'm not going for amazing sounds, it was just a test and it appeared to work. It has the only DI'ed guitar I had recorded on my hard drive which was already compressed and it went straight into an epiphone amp with one knob (volume) and used the three mics that happened to be in the iso so what i got was what I got. I'd be curious to see if anybody has any luck with this technique. I got the IBP and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It always seems like it just just shifts the comb filter around, but it's cool for drums. I was trying to figure out a way to undo it. Time alignment doesnt work that well with gutiar cabs. I haven't had time to play with it. Lately, I've been doing very fast sessions. I did 22 mixes plus several hours of tracking in one day the other day, and the day before vocals to all of those songs plus drum edits! Somebody else should try it. I don't really worry about noise floor on guitars too much. They are so loud on their own.

AdamJay · 16th March 2006

so what do we call this... the jbuntz technique? or the "mid-rear" method?

it does have some foundation in mid-side mic'ing, but with an interesting spin.

sounds good too.

have you tried different pan settings for the 3 different faders?

jbuntz · 18th March 2006

Mid rear... Hmmmm. Don't like the sound of that. Nope. No foundation in mid-side. It has to do with the way allpass filters work. Like I side, with a slight modification a comb filter becomes an allpass filter which has a non-linear phase response (with respect to the original source) but linear frequency response, which is what you actually hear. The 3rd mic that is out of phase actually will cut some of the bottom end that the second mic adds and also fills in the holes the 2nd mic made.

I did play with panning the sources around. Sounded kind cool by itself but i'm guessing it would lose focus in the mix

14th March 2006	#2
flanger001 Gear interested Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 11	I don't know I have little idea about comb-filtering or allpass filtering or all that. That stuff is yet above my reach; I usually just move a microphone around until I like how it sounds and I do small eq tweaks once I've got the sound. That said, your miking technique sounds interesting. I'm not going to say good or bad because I'd have to hear it in a mix. I mean, it sounds kinda rank for a solo guitar anyway, but that could be anything including the amp, where you actually decided to put the mic on the speaker. THAT said, this sounds like an awfully niche guitar sound. There isn't much low end and it sounds kinda boxy. I don't know sir!

16th March 2006	#5
AdamJay Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,825	so what do we call this... the jbuntz technique? or the "mid-rear" method? it does have some foundation in mid-side mic'ing, but with an interesting spin. sounds good too. have you tried different pan settings for the 3 different faders? __________________

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14th March 2006	#3
wallace Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,086	That seems like a pretty cool idea, and I'd keep messing with it. However, the guitar sound itself seemed kind of weird, and I think you could get that sound with one mic and a few pedals or a different amp. It seems more like you're creating the sound with the mics than with the amp, since all those samples (mics) sound really different. It's interesting concept though you're adding a lot more noise with each mic. If you want to use 2 mics out of phase, isn't there a box that will let you dial in how much phase you want (Little Labs maybe)?

16th March 2006	#4
jbuntz Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716 Thread Starter	like I said, I'm not going for amazing sounds, it was just a test and it appeared to work. It has the only DI'ed guitar I had recorded on my hard drive which was already compressed and it went straight into an epiphone amp with one knob (volume) and used the three mics that happened to be in the iso so what i got was what I got. I'd be curious to see if anybody has any luck with this technique. I got the IBP and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It always seems like it just just shifts the comb filter around, but it's cool for drums. I was trying to figure out a way to undo it. Time alignment doesnt work that well with gutiar cabs. I haven't had time to play with it. Lately, I've been doing very fast sessions. I did 22 mixes plus several hours of tracking in one day the other day, and the day before vocals to all of those songs plus drum edits! Somebody else should try it. I don't really worry about noise floor on guitars too much. They are so loud on their own.

18th March 2006	#6
jbuntz Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716 Thread Starter	Mid rear... Hmmmm. Don't like the sound of that. Nope. No foundation in mid-side. It has to do with the way allpass filters work. Like I side, with a slight modification a comb filter becomes an allpass filter which has a non-linear phase response (with respect to the original source) but linear frequency response, which is what you actually hear. The 3rd mic that is out of phase actually will cut some of the bottom end that the second mic adds and also fills in the holes the 2nd mic made. I did play with panning the sources around. Sounded kind cool by itself but i'm guessing it would lose focus in the mix