Advice Request - Rock Song

[egervari]

Soundcloud tends to compress and also cut lots of bass, so if you want mixing advice, it's actually better to just attach the mp3 to the thread.

The first thing I noticed is that the drums are not loud enough. Are these drums mixed at all? You need to eq/compress each track from addictive drums, and also set up some buses for parallel compression to get them to be really big. Google "parallel compression" for more info.

[ChemicalFire]

I am a bit of a noob at this, pretty much self taught in production. The drums are mixed and there is some compression on some of the drums, but I find if I make the drums louder, then they just clip the track. Not sure how to fix it.

[egervari]

Well, like I said, google is your best friend. There are plenty of videos instructing how to mix drums and do parallel compression. TONS. So you know you what it's called

Basically, you want to send each drum track to the bus, and then compress the crap out of the bus (make sure no pumping) and then play all the tracks and this new bus at the same time. The sound will be fatter without clipping and without raising the volume by massive amounts.

Also, you need to do special treatment to your overheads and your room tracks if addictive has them. If you compress the room for example, it's going to sound even BIGGER.

You want the drums to cut through the guitars. Don't be afraid to cut -6db or -9db at a very high q (like 10 or 15) at 185-200hz where the snare hits to get it to cut through without causing a conflict. You don't want the pockets of sound to conflict with each other, so opening holes like this in your rhythm guitars can let the snare hit cleanly and it'll still sound nice and balanced even though it's hitting hard.

[ChemicalFire]

So something a little more like this?

Drums definitely sound much better to my ears at least. Though I'm still having some problems with the Snare drum pushing the Drums into red.

[egervari]

It's better.

Let's train your ears.

Notice when the snare hits, there is mud? Can you hear the puff of a low boom when it hits? It kind of surrounds the snare a bit, but on the lower end. Notice that it doesn't just hit nice and crisp?

What you need to do, most likely, is figure out which frequency that snare is hitting at (160-200hz) and cut from the rhythm guitars. Maybe even the bass too. Start with something like -3db and work up to -9db until it sounds right. Use a very small Q because you don't really want to affect the sound of the guitars at all - you just want to open up a small little pocket for that snare to go.

Yes, the guitars will sound worse when solo'd, but it will overall sound better.

Do the same for the kick. The kick has stuff on top of it. It should be completely audible and distinguishable from the bass. It sounds like it's overlapping and the lower bass frequencies are muddying it.

Listen to all of these mixes. Listen at the drums:
http://soundcloud.com/fecharacterguide/anabola5
http://soundcloud.com/fecharacterguide/believe-me2
http://soundcloud.com/fecharacterguide/prefiero

[ChemicalFire]

Okay I've done that (the snare part), I've also Re-EQ'd the snare because looking at the curve I had I realised it was a disaster.

Edit: Re-uploaded with Bass/Kick Edit too

[egervari]

It's best to use EQ's outside of addictive drums, especially if you have some better plugins. Sometimes the EQs in the DAW are actually pretty good, and they are usually a lot better than the EQ's that come with drum machines. Just so you know.

It sounds a bit better, but it also sounds like the first sample of the snare changed until the heavier part kicks in. Notice that the first sample doesn't have mud though? It doesn't hit very hard at the lower frequencies, so it doesn't clash with the bass guitar at all.

I think the bass is adding a lot of low frequencies now. Try

1) lowering the bass volume
2) Cut out of the bass where the kick/snare hit
3) use a low-pass filter at 35-45hz on the bass guitar.
4) All of the above.

[ChemicalFire]

Originally Posted by egervari

It's best to use EQ's outside of addictive drums, especially if you have some better plugins.

It sounds a bit better, but it also sounds like the first sample of the snare changed until the heavier part kicks in.

I am using outside EQ. I'm using the Sonitus fx EQ plug in.

And yes the sample did change. It was always intended to be a side stick, but because my previous drum mix was rather poor, you couldn't hear the snare at all so I switched it to a louder sound. Though that now you can hear the snare that I should switch it back.

I went for all of the above, just to be thorough

[egervari]

Originally Posted by ChemicalFire

I am using outside EQ. I'm using the Sonitus fx EQ plug in.

And yes the sample did change. It was always intended to be a side stick, but because my previous drum mix was rather poor, you couldn't hear the snare at all so I switched it to a louder sound. Though that now you can hear the snare that I should switch it back.

I went for all of the above, just to be thorough

I think in some ways it got worse

Can i hear what the bass sounds like just by itself? I can figure out a lot just by hearing that.

Also, you know where the snare builds up the in the middle? It sounds muddy and then goes to a cleaner snare. That needs to sound clear all the way through.

[ChemicalFire]

Only the second half of this bit has any bass in it. So I'll just post a shorter file.

[egervari]

Yeah, I don't think it was the bass now. I think it's the rhythm guitars that are causing all the problems.

Undo all the last 3 things you did. This bass is pretty clean and doesn't boom at those low frequencies, so you don't have to worry about the filter.

Try moving the High pass filter on the rhythm guitars from 150hz to even 300hz until the mud disappears. If your guitars sound a little tinny when solo'd, don't worry about it. You want the bass to fill in those low frequencies. I have a suspicion that 200hz wasn't enough and that you'll have to go to 250 at least. Just a guess.

[ChemicalFire]

250 sounded a little too thin, even when the bass guitar came in. I've got the high pass set to 210. If it's still too low then I'll shove it up to 250.

[egervari]

It sounds better.

Usually what I do is I play the bass and guitar only with no EQ modifications, then I start with the high pass filter at around 100 and slowly move up until it sounds just right. It's not about memorizing numbers - every recording is going to be different. The ears are the only judge. I've had songs where I definitely cut 250 or 300 just because the guitars were totally out of control with the low-end.

Next, boost the kick. I don't hear it. Play around around boosting 3-9db at 80 or 100hz. Make the sure Q isn't too wide, but not too small either. If necessary, cut more or less the equal amount to the bass in the same spot. Again, don't just go by numbers though - use the ears.

[egervari]

Actually, i hear it in the second part, but not the first part. There's still mud there coming from somewhere.

How clean are your recordings? Use a program like izotope rx (a fantastic buy if you don't have it and plan on doing this stuff all the time) and clean out all the noise and crap in the files. This makes the compression sound really good without distortion anything.

[ChemicalFire]

It may be as simple as the velocities on the Drum Machine, since the first part is meant to be a little softer I've got the velocities on the Kick drum down a bit, making them quieter and probably cutting some of the top end while it does it.

[egervari]

Play one track at a time with the kick playing and you'll see what is causing the conflict. It is definitely noticeable. I hope it's not just background bass frequencies from the kit or something. Do you have your room mic cranked maybe?

Even if the kick is low volume, it should be able to cut through. You don't have enough stuff playing right now.

[ChemicalFire]

I'll take a look, Room mic is pretty cut. I'm after a nice dry drum sound. It's either the guitar or something in the Kit because nothing else is playing. I still think it could be the velocity. Velocity isn't the same as Volume, it determines how hard the kick drum is hit as I assume you know. Just as a reference here is the kickdrum on its own.

I'm considering the possibility that it could be the hihats. I'm going to cut the lower frequencies as I probably should already have done.

[egervari]

Oh, the room mic should not be cut. You need to play this. You can do wonderful things with this mic! That's where the really nice sounds come from.

It's just easy to get carried away and crank it too loud because then the bassy echo from the reverb of the "room" will start to cause mud. So it needs to put at the right volume.

[ChemicalFire]

Originally Posted by egervari

Oh, the room mic should not be cut. You need to play this. You can do wonderful things with this mic! That's where the really nice sounds come from.

It's just easy to get carried away and crank it too loud because then the bassy echo from the reverb of the "room" will start to cause mud. So it needs to put at the right volume.

I'll raise it back up, it's at around -20db atm. I'll bring it up to -10 then play with it a bit

[egervari]

Sometime's a good idea to use a high pass filter at 45 or 65hz... but this depends on the song. I wouldn't do 'auto-apply' this.

It's always good a idea to EQ the room slightly to bring out things the other drum mic's aren't. It also sounds really good if you can compress it. It gives you really big drums if you do this.

[ChemicalFire]

Too much room?

[egervari]

You still have a ginormous build up in the bass frequencies. It's probably coming from the rhythm guitars.

You need to find out where the build up is at 30-55hz. It's massive and it's WAY loud compared to the rest of stuff.

Also, you need to brighten up the rhythm guitars. Either boost or high shelf around 5k.

I don't have the individual tracks, so I can only do some mastering eq. But I just did this real quick. It's NOT the best it can be, because like I said, I don't have the individual tracks and I just did it quick. But notice the mud is gone?