Tracked Live: Guitarist Singer Songwriter

[john caldwell]

A first effort at tracking my collaborator, Eve Goodman, as she was playing her Huss & Dalton and singing at once. She needs a few very low tech demos which convey the live vibe. Most of our work involves tracking one instrument and voice at a time; you know - the modern way.

I am at most only so so pleased with the attached result. Isolation between the vocal and guitar mics was reasonable, I thought, but the mix remains more phasey, diffuse and brittle than I'd hoped for. I tracked guitar neck and bridge, expecting to use only the neck mic. Both guitar mics were Gefell UM92S in Figure 8 into Avalon 2022 and Distressors. The vocal was cut with a Soundelux Elux 251 into UA 6176. The photos attached explain the arrangement but do not show the gobo in front of Eve, placed in light of Fig 8 patterns all around.

Both neck and bridge mics are represented in the attached mix. Reverb (Waves IR1) and delay were added to fill the song out a bit and to hide some of the phase relationships.

Fire away,

John-

[dim light]

Hey great song and voice -


I would use small condensers closer to the guitar - I'm not sure the mic is right for her though - Sounds like she sings too close to the mic.

I have done some recordings similar to yours... 2 sm81's on the guitar and ntk on vocals.

I would like a softer guitar sound - it's hard to explain in english...

if you want to check out my recording:
http://www.evileyedcherry.com/da-songs/1.mp3
http://www.evileyedcherry.com/da-songs/2.mp3

[john caldwell]

Yes, Dim.

I used the Gefell UM92S mics as they offered Figure 8 pattern, but I do wonder if you're right about the guitar sound. I don't like it, and the Distressors were too active during guitar tracking, I believe. The Elux 251 is very good on Eve, but here agin, you're correct as I had her too close to the mic to promote better isolation - likely a bad idea.

Live and learn. Thanks for your input, Dim.

John-

[dim light]

man I forgot...


I used 5 mics... 2 rode nt3 (room) and 2 shure sm81 on the guitar and ntk on the vocals.

Next time I will use the AEA R84 on his voice and the NTK for room and SM81 (1) on the guitar or maybe I try 2 on the guitar. This was the first time I recorded a guitarist this way.

I agree on the compression - You could try to slow down the attack on the guitar to get a smoother sound - not so up in the face... if you know what I mean.

Maybe try Shure SM7 on her voice? That could work.


When I listen back to your recording the vocals moves in the stereo image - I think you should try to have better control of that and cut som lows on the vocals... Just my thoughts .

great voice -

[john caldwell]

The 2 nylon string and male voice recordings you attached are lovely in every way, Dim. Thanks for the above detail on your method. The results are excellent, as are the performances. The R84 may be a nice variation on the voice; I wonder if the nylon string will sound bright against the R84 on his voice if you don't emplay some eq on the nylon guitar.

The instability of her vocal image related to bleed in the guitar mics, I suspect. I think that a more distant stereo recording would have been more natural.

This attached file, Now, is from the same session; it's a bit more successful I think. Listen only if you have the time, of course.

Thanks for your interest,

John-

[Timothy Lawler]

Eve has a memorable voice and great control. I like the realism of expression one gets when tracking a singer/guitarist all at once rather than in separate takes... FWIW, I'd vote for a stereo pair out a bit to get a performer-controlled balance between voice/gtr and a natural sound.

Tim

[john caldwell]

Originally Posted by Timothy Lawler

... FWIW, I'd vote for a stereo pair out a bit to get a performer-controlled balance between voice/gtr and a natural sound...

Tim

Wishing now that I'd approached these live takes excatly that way, or some rendition of Dim's technique above.

Thanks, Tim.

John-

[dim light]

Great song - reminds me of Joni Mitchall.

I'm not sure but the guitar have too much early reflection - maybe it's the IR-1 and I want to soften up the attack on the guitar.

If you use the early reflection in waves try to lower the gain/volume and play with the time.

I would move the vocal mic so it takes up more of the guitar and use the other mics for room and pan them L/R and compress the voc/guitar mic in the middle. Maybe put a small condenser on the guitar... Hard to explain but the room, stereo track need to be tighter.

[dim light]

ooh thanks for the kind words on my recording! Forgot to say thanks you - don't want to look like a snob or anything... You rock man!

[chielio72]

Hi John,

There is a trick for the phase relationship, place a speaker where the singer/songwriter is gonna be. Then flip the polarity of 1 mic and adjust placement just as long as it sounds the worst it can be (out of phase) .. flip polarity back and it should be fine.

If the player/singer is in balance from a distance, I agree on micing a little further away. That decision depends on what you hear in the room ofcourse.

[binarymilton]

I think you got good results.

I was kind of looking to find fault after your précis of all the phasing to look out for etc. I would say that the delay on the vocal is a little too noticeable.

I think you could turn down the guitar tracks a tiny fraction, and that might allow you to use less delay and reverb.

I don't think you need to 'fill the song out': I think her voice, that song, and the guitar playing all lend themselves to understatement. Leave the space in, don't fill it up.

[mikedunn211290]

Originally Posted by john caldwell

The 2 nylon string and male voice recordings you attached are lovely in every way, Dim. Thanks for the above detail on your method. The results are excellent, as are the performances. The R84 may be a nice variation on the voice; I wonder if the nylon string will sound bright against the R84 on his voice if you don't emplay some eq on the nylon guitar.

The instability of her vocal image related to bleed in the guitar mics, I suspect. I think that a more distant stereo recording would have been more natural.

This attached file, Now, is from the same session; it's a bit more successful I think. Listen only if you have the time, of course.

Thanks for your interest,

John-

I way prefer this one, but overall it's really good work!

Mike

[john caldwell]

Thanks for the comments here. This post (and recording) is 6 years old now, and I'd like to think my process has progressed since then. This artist, Eve Goodman, and I are right now finishing up another record of original works. Angus Woodhead of Woodhead Studios, a member here, is doing most of the final mixing of that project. This is one of the tracks from that record that I mixed, and Brian Lucey, also a forum meber, mastered. This is called Esther, and it was tracked live. I added only background vocals after the fact.

Esther