Alt Rock Mix ITB

[echodog]

This is work in progress. The bands called ipsofacto from swansea, wales, uk - they have a modern alt/prog sound. So i'm aiming for a slight vintage take on this, nice n upfront not too shiny.
Recorded the drums on an old DDA console
Kick Audix d6/royer r121 sn 57 top & bott, toms ATM25's, OHS nuemann kvm's, room 2 x AKG c414
recorded DRY to radar and digitally expoted to nuendo.
Then back to my room :
gtrs with focusrite ISA428 and Royer / 57 thru VT737 - Marshall 1959slp with a powerbrake & Ibenez ts9 pedal, gibson gtr
one of the clean tones was done with a pod
Bass with MD421 thru Avalon VT737 from Ampeg SVT & 4x12 fender jazz bass with pick
Vox SE 5600 valve mic - VT737 & a 57 thru a joemeek vc1 fro the distortion vox
recorded DRY to radar and digitally expoted to nuendo.

Mixing in nuendo 3 with 2 UAD cards, the standard waves stuff and the URS plugs,
lots of voxengo and magneto tape emu, and trying (my first attempt) to parallel compess the kit - ie one drum group with no compression (except a touch of waves Rcomp on the snare) and pre fade fx sending that group to a UAD 1176 setup with quite a bit of squish and laying this beneath the uncompessed drums for some density.

Finding it a hard mix........this is just stage 1, eq'd and compressed, levels done some basic automation and some scratch effects - theres still one harmony part from the guitist to track and some hammond sound to go in the empty tom break - what d'ya think?
I'm struggling with the guitars a bit.
My references have been qotsa know one knows, and 'at the drive in' relationship of command album.
spare me no mercy.

[echodog]

just listened to the mp3, yuk, i hate mp3's its minced it. anyway......

[andredb]

Quite good indeed...
Do not like the drums... maybe try with more ambience???
great bass sound and vocals!
Guitars are mixed feelings.

You should work more on drums, right now they are too "Real"

Really like the singer and the way you treated the vocals

BTW, il also use a D6, great mic isn't it???

[andredb]

Correction
Vocals are SUPERCOOL ,really like the singer..

[echodog]

Cheers for that.
I quite like what I've recorded with the drums, but I cant decide how to present it in the mix. I've got a great room sound which is quite airy and bright, but I wanted to keep the drums quite tight and dry...........
I keep listening to the drum sound on 'no one knows' by queens of the stone age - its so dry and present without being toppy, the snare and toms seem to have this 'spread' across the stereo image that I love but just cant get, ive tried various very tight reverbs to get this to no avail. It almost sounds to me like dave grohl is playing with brushes but hitting really hard - my ears say yes but my head says no to this - anyone know anything about the drumsound on this record!
I listened back to the mp3 off this page last night and I was hating my mix........especially the vocals - I really wanted to dry them up.
Anyone - anyone else?

[echodog]

Taken some suggestions onboard, and knocked out another mix this morning.
still fighting the cleaner guitar, can't get it quite right, rrrrrr pesky things, guitars.

[andredb]

mmm du not her MUCH difference....(addes parts aside)

You should really concentrete in Snare sound IMHO... Snare is 51% of the song...
Clean guitars are ok

Try parallel compression/ eq with the snare... also consider Samples...

Somehow i preferred mix V1, did you do something on the voice??

Somethimes i build the snare sound and the build around that....
Also, talk with the band and cut the middle part... too long IMHO

Hope this helped!

[AlexLakis]

Why not gate in the room sound and open it up when the snare hits? I'll agree, the snare isn't up to snuff with the bass drum. Sounds weak in comparison. Soundreplacer would work too just to reinforce it...

If that middle part in the song is gonna stay, maybe put a long sample ala Roger Waters in there from the start of it? Make it more interesting?

The whole thing sounds pretty compressed and dirty...It's almost like it's an ULTRA-MP3...What did you use to encode it? Started hurting my ears on the second listen...

I like the mix overall, pretty pro sounding generally speaking. I didn't listen to the first one, but the vocals sound nice.

[NeoVXR]

great song and vocals!

technically, mix 2 has improved a lot.
but with the ears of a rock fan, I think it is becoming a bit too balanced, harmonic and soft. such music regularly has very much energy and various levels of aggression. you are losing some presence and midrange, but thats a dynamic thing, not simple EQ.
generally, the song wants a bit more dynamics to come through from the band-playing, and requires very sensitive mastering. currently its not bad, but still a bit "smashed" by the limiter.

in the finale (~ from 2:40) mix 1 has a clear advantage in vocals and guitars (bright and upfront), and the guitar at 0:20-.. sounds especially great, but OTOH mix 2 has better transparency.

perhaps certain "drive" controls in the mastering (or bus) chain need some automation to push the intensity during the louder parts of the song, including the finale.

to me, the snare sounds better in mix 2.
you might try something like a transient designer (or the "dominion") to add a tad of a short, hard attack. experiment with the routing, perhaps also the reverbs or the whole drum bus should be included in the transient effect.
if you get it right, it would allow you to make vocals and guitars brighter, like they are in mix 1, and still keep the balance.
eventually a synthesis of the best aspects of 1 and 2 should win...


experimental thought:
in this song there is a "pop" factor to be adjusted, besides the "vintage" feel that already is in place.
it is somewhere on a fictional path leading from kelly clarkson (vocals upfront) to old black sabbath / ozzi (vocals sitting within the ensemble but still very clear).