Pop/Rock Ballad (Shinedown-ish, hinder-ish)

[DaVinci]

I'd say it sounds fantastic except there seems to be some weird pumping going on with the compression that's not flowing with it.

I should mention it's late and I'm on headphones.

That aside, it's quite beautiful actually... the way the delicate guitars come in and out of the forefront.

[DavieB]

Yeah it's compressed to hell! You can hear it, sounds like it's going through a broadcast chain. I think to get the big and beefy epic sound you need to upstage your tracks a lot more, sticking a comp on your 2 buss just sucks the life out of it...

[Decembersky1984]

Haha I totally know what you mean. I was honestly just playing with some Ozone settings. I really have no clue how to run that piece of gear =p

I'll lighten up on the compressor, or I'll just go back to the way I normally do things.


I'd also like to add,

These guys were very hard to work with. I've done like 50 mixes of this song, every one of them sounding decent/good/great. They were very adamant about getting the 'wall of sound' sound. They are big fans of Nickelback, Disturbed, that kind of stuff. So whenever I gave them a copy of the CD that wasn't compressed to hell, they would say they wanted it louder and it wasnt punching as hard as other CDs they own.

Yes, I explained to them that I am NOT a mastering engineer.

PS - They loved this version, so whatever makes them happy, I guess.

[DaVinci]

I listened to it again today to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

Definitely not. The pumping is actually ruining the song. If I heard it on the radio, I'd think there was something wrong with my radio or with their broadcast limiter.

It's not just that it's crushed... it's that it's breathing heavily in all the wrong ways.

That being said, the rest of the mix is phenomenal... man, if "going back to what you usually do" means everything except the heavy pumping, then by all means, do that.

Please try to convince them to get the NON crushed version properly mastered.

I'd buy it, and it's really not even my bag. Nickelback is one of the few rock bands I like. The singer is a good part of the reason, the production is another part. Musically, however, these guys have them beat.


... and I love the mix otherwise.

[Decembersky1984]

i So totally agree with you both.

Here is the mix without being crushed. I hope its better. Tell me if I still need to lighten up on it. I think its pretty okay though.

After listening to this song 15 thousand times, I think my judgement is starting to get screwed up.


Edit: After listening to it, I don't know. I'm still not happy with it. Maybe I Just need to take a break from it, or just send this file to a mastering studio and see what they can do with it... a bunch of stuff seems to have come "unglued" without the crushed sound. Not saying its not a step forward, but it's likely i'll just have to remix the whole song.

[chielio72]

Hi! All the elements are there, just take a break from it and then concentrate on a good mix and get it mastered.

Maybe try to get a good mix with less compression, just the right amount needed approach .. I'm sure that it'll do the end result good. I agree on the weird pumping, I hear it also (though less) on the 2nd mix you posted.

Don't ask the guys for their opinion in the meantime .. as you say, to them everything under 10 rms or less sound weak .. ahhaha.

[tampa]

Originally Posted by Decembersky1984

i So totally agree with you both.

Here is the mix without being crushed. I hope its better. Tell me if I still need to lighten up on it. I think its pretty okay though.

After listening to this song 15 thousand times, I think my judgement is starting to get screwed up.


Edit: After listening to it, I don't know. I'm still not happy with it. Maybe I Just need to take a break from it, or just send this file to a mastering studio and see what they can do with it... a bunch of stuff seems to have come "unglued" without the crushed sound. Not saying its not a step forward, but it's likely i'll just have to remix the whole song.

There is no depth to the snare try to get some space around it, it still sounds really squashed. This track definetly sounds better than the first.

[DaVinci]

Well, I can certainly hear more clearly what's really there, and the pumping is gone

I love most of it, but as much as I like the acoustic, it's featured more heavily than the lead vox which sometimes seem to hover just below the guitars. Sounds good when cranked, but I could see listeners losing some of the vocal lines when driving noise, etc.. comes into play. Just my opinion, but I tend to think that whenever a song has a vocal with actual lyrics, that needs to be center stage... even within a modern rock guitar driven aesthetic.... it just gets a bit trickier to dial it in.

I'd have to agree about the snare... The drums in general just aren't sounding as nice as the rest of the instruments which are phenomenal... but kick and snare in particular.

[libertine]

Second revision w/o as much compression sounds much better dynamically. But if the band is going for "wall of sound," I can definitely see why they aren't quite sold yet.

Fundamentals of a great mix are there. The actual tracks sound great. Good ear for modern aesthetic. Solid balance.

The issue here is your time-based scheme. Reverb/Delay is what you're missing. Not to say you need to slather the thing like a joy division tune, but it needs a larger sonic venue. Close your eyes, imagine the band playing this song in an arena. You said it yourself, they sound like Hinder, a balls-to-the-wall-arena-rock-band (whether I like it or not), so try and imagine the snare at soundcheck, bouncing off the walls off the empty arena as the drum tech splooges all over the kit for a brief moment of coolness. Imagine the tail of the 'verb. Feel it.

Now, in the words of Captain Picard, make it so.

Also, delays can be way more effective and modern sounding than reverbs on most everything else.

Do some cheesy vocal quarter/half note throws with your automation. Top 40 rock, right??? **** it. Do it. Soccer Moms/Suburban Rockers love that shit.

Once you unify, and generally ENLARGE your time-based scheme, it'll be a wall.

Oh, and stickwith hard L-C-R panning. Definitely will make your clients feel the heat a bit more, from what I've experienced.

Booyah. Another mid-west tough-guy pourin' his heart out anthem is born.

EDIT AFTER LISTENING AGAIN: Most of the problem is seriously the snare verb. Or lack there of. Should be an easy fix.

[tampa]

For the snare. On the eq pull the 800-1000hz freq and add around the 200-300 hz to taste add a little verb, you should be in there.

[Decembersky1984]

It's a huge session, if I change one thing, various other things are going to change. At this point, the clients are very happy with the mix (they are the ones who wanted that sound). I put up a Spanish Rock song earlier, I'm sure you can tell that that song isn't crushed, and that its not part of what I normally do.

I think I'll just let this song stay the way it is until I get some free time and feel like remixing it. The only thing I'd gain from remixing at this point would be that I'd please myself.