Help With My Metal Mix?!

[CalumJC]

I've decided to have a stab at producing a demo for a metal song me and my friend wrote. This is the first time i've tried anything like this and i have very limited resources: M-Audio AV40 Monitors, Line 6 pod X3 and a bog standard computer thats about 5 years old running Cubase 5.

I think the sound i have is alright. But i feel its a bit boxy and it doesnt ound very crisp at all. I've tried my hnd at 'mastering' it but the most i can really do is compress it badly and bring it up to commercial volume.

Would appreciate some advice.

Thanks =]

p.s. I am aware the actual performance could be a lot tighter, this is just a first attempt.

[Romain65]

Sounds good, but there is too much compression on the master, it doesn't sound natural.

[CalumJC]

Yeah it does sound a bit lifeless. When I applied compression on the master I used the 'light master' preset. It doesn't help that I don't really know the first thing about compression.

[Romain65]

You shouldn't use preset, as the values depends on your music. But I used to do the same when I didn't know anything about compression.

I listened to your song again, maybe you should pan your guitar 100% right and left, it would give more width to the mix.

[JeffS65]

I think I need a pre-made thing for my replies...Needs more bass guitar. I pretty much say that in most metal things. I'm a metal guy though I really dig every thing. That said, the thing I most hear missing is any kind of prominence in the bass guitar. You won't get any breadth of sound in your mix if the bass is completely buried. Without the bass coming to the fore a bit, it's gonna be 'boxey'. A bit more bass guitar gives it that 'chest-pounding' thing that a song like this needs..

It's pretty decent considering you are trying out a little production for the first time.

[CalumJC]

Hey guys thanks for your advice (:

I've had another bash at it all. Mostly iv changed The structure of the song as I felt the first half sounded 'rushed' i also added some 808's in there a couple of times haha, just wanted to see what that sounded like.

I can get the mix to sound great on my monitors but it sounds proper bassy on any other playback system, but when i compensate for too much bass by exporting it with a little less, it sounds weak and has no substance.

Anyway here it is. No idea what its going to sound like through your speakers but oh well (:

p.s. I know the bass guitar in it sucks, its because I cant get hold of a bass with thick enough strings to sound good in Drop B tuning, and I haven't been motivated to go out and get some ;P

[Dragonsage]

In my most humble opinon ye riffs are great but thy mix is muddy! *clears thought* my dragon approves greatly however. Greatly indeed.

[AstralPStudios]

Definitely too much compression. There is a bit of muddiness in the mix as well, make sure to roll off the low end of things that don't need it. like guitars, etc. when it comes to metal (especially down-tuned stuff) it can be difficult to nail the bass response on a per track level, but once you do it, you'll remember you can do similar things in future mixes.

The guitar tone is great, but I suggest rolling off a bit more and letting the bass do it's job and you'll find that muddiness will clear up quick. Love the cymbals!

Keep on keepin' on

[CalumJC]

Thanks for the quick response guys (: you were talking about compression, the only things that have compression are a slight bit on the bass guitar and a very slight bit on the master. When you say roll off the low end on the guitars, what exactly do you mean? at the moment I do have a high pass on about 80hz on the guitars. I think I really should invest in a good bass because mine tuned down to drop b with standard strings flaps about like a wet fish and it sounds appalling.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by CalumJC

Thanks for the quick response guys (: you were talking about compression, the only things that have compression are a slight bit on the bass guitar and a very slight bit on the master. When you say roll off the low end on the guitars, what exactly do you mean? at the moment I do have a high pass on about 80hz on the guitars. I think I really should invest in a good bass because mine tuned down to drop b with standard strings flaps about like a wet fish and it sounds appalling.

We were all talking about the master buss comp. If you are compressing things to reduce about -3 to -5dB you're doing just fine on that.

Personally, I don't put a compressor on my master.

80hz is all? Take that up to about 200 and slowly take it down until there is juuuust enough low end from the guitars to add that chunk to it. Let the bass handle bass...metal guitars ALWAYS have way more bass (and distortion) than they actually need haha.

The only thing I can comment on about the bass is that you just need thicker strings man, with downtuned metal if you don't have 56s on guitar and 120s on bass it's pretty much going to sound like a floppy mess lol.

[CalumJC]

Originally Posted by AstralPStudios

We were all talking about the master buss comp. If you are compressing things to reduce about -3 to -5dB you're doing just fine on that.

Personally, I don't put a compressor on my master.

80hz is all? Take that up to about 200 and slowly take it down until there is juuuust enough low end from the guitars to add that chunk to it. Let the bass handle bass...metal guitars ALWAYS have way more bass (and distortion) than they actually need haha.

The only thing I can comment on about the bass is that you just need thicker strings man, with downtuned metal if you don't have 56s on guitar and 120s on bass it's pretty much going to sound like a floppy mess lol.

Okay ill give the high pass another shot, but before i do, can you recommend a good hi and low pass filter vst? the one im using is a pain, its gui is awful.

im with you on the distortion thing though, im not actually a guitar player myself but i dabble, the guitar was recorded by my friend so this demo is pretty much a 'joint effort'. He's usually one of those 'more is better' guys as regards distortion and sound in general. but we're both starting from basically 0 knowledge of recording, hes slowly coming round to the fact that less is more in alot of cases :P.

Im going to have to get those strings, the bass guitar really does sound pathetic. Ill keep at it and post my next mix tomorrow (:

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by CalumJC

Okay ill give the high pass another shot, but before i do, can you recommend a good hi and low pass filter vst? the one im using is a pain, its gui is awful.

im with you on the distortion thing though, im not actually a guitar player myself but i dabble, the guitar was recorded by my friend so this demo is pretty much a 'joint effort'. He's usually one of those 'more is better' guys as regards distortion and sound in general. but we're both starting from basically 0 knowledge of recording, hes slowly coming round to the fact that less is more in alot of cases :P.

Im going to have to get those strings, the bass guitar really does sound pathetic. Ill keep at it and post my next mix tomorrow (:

Try out this plug:

Dynamic equalizer plugin with spectrums - GlissEQ - Voxengo

I'm a PT guy, so VST isn't my world, I just know voxengo makes good stuff!

Take a listen to the "Transparent Hallucinations" sample on my site page player and I think you'll understand what to shoot for when you're doing it.

Oh and tell your friend this random professional told you to tell him to use less bass and less gain!

[CalumJC]

Originally Posted by AstralPStudios

Try out this plug:

Dynamic equalizer plugin with spectrums - GlissEQ - Voxengo

I'm a PT guy, so VST isn't my world, I just know voxengo makes good stuff!

Take a listen to the "Transparent Hallucinations" sample on my site page player and I think you'll understand what to shoot for when you're doing it.

Oh and tell your friend this random professional told you to tell him to use less bass and less gain!

okay thanks! i think ill start mixing again now, only for an hour though. My ability to distinguish good from bad goes out the window when i get tired haha.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by CalumJC

okay thanks! i think ill start mixing again now, only for an hour though. My ability to distinguish good from bad goes out the window when i get tired haha.

Always take frequent breaks when mixing. go outside for a few minutes and go back in with fresh ears. I can last an hour or two before i need a break. Sometimes you just get into it and get on a roll like I do and you forget to bounce a sample and listen elsewhere lol.

[traumerei1838]

f#@k that.

it's all about the performance, right?

i was grooving to that. hell yeah.

feels good on my brain. don't over mix. over mix on crappy music. not this

[CalumJC]

Hey guyss, update number 3.

Sorry i didnt post this the other day, iv'e been out for the past 2 days catching up with friends as they all just got back from leeds festival.

i feel as though the clarity has improved alot in this version. i cant wait to get vocals done for this song.

The only problem with this mix that i just cant figure out, is the guitars drop out randomly for about a second and come back. Its really noticeable on the rhythm guitar near the start, the hard panned left guitar drops out and comes back a second later, any thoughts on what that might be?

Also, me and my friend who recorded this demo and really want to get into production have had some major interest from a local band wanting to record about 8 or 9 songs with us :D. PLUS they are offering to buy us equipment to do so. Im really excited about it all.

Anyways heres update number 3. Hope you like it

[AstralPStudios]

Muuuuuuuuuuuuuch better. I think you've got it man! Just wait for the vocals now.

[CalumJC]

Any ideas why the guitars are dropping out?

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by CalumJC

Any ideas why the guitars are dropping out?

Personally, I didn't hear much of a drop out...-slips headphones on-

Ahhhh, now I hear it :P.

You wouldn't happen to have a gate on the guitars would you?

[CalumJC]

No there isn't anything on the guitars apart from lo and hi pass filters and some light EQ. That's why I'm confused.

[AstralPStudios]

Could it have been a hiccup in processing? Try re-bouncing it.

[CalumJC]

I think its my computer, Im getting a new one soon so ill do that then.

This one has a single core processor @ 3.19ghz and 2gb of the oldest ram known to man.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by CalumJC

I think its my computer, Im getting a new one soon so ill do that then.

This one has a single core processor @ 3.19ghz and 2gb of the oldest ram known to man.

Yeaaaaahhhhh. lol

[Johnny Paez]

try to import some song to your mix about a band that likes how it sound, and try to do yours sound as the same as posible, that will help you a lot

good luck