Help with making mix sound fatter

Billy Maddox · 28th August 2010

Hello, I'm in dire need of help! My mix sounds thin and empty, and my band is getting mad at me. I'm thinking it has to do with the bad distortion from the guitars, but it doesn't help when they insist on recording with the insane channel on a Line6 Spider III. I've tried everything that I can think of (with the exception of listening to my band mates: apparently cranking the bass will fix it and not make the mix sound muddy). Any help would be appreciated!

Barney1981 · 28th August 2010

Hi Billy

What have you recorded the mix on? I would be happy to have a little go a remixing the track if you have all the audio files in the project mix. I will then give you a breakdown of what I did and see if you like the new mix.
PM me if you are interested, I will do it for free of course

.

The main problem is the stereo imaging of the track, there is far too much focus down the middle, leaving the track with no depth and making it sound too thin.

I agree the Line 6 insane channel is not ideal as it can be a bit noisy and overbearing but you can still get decent results from the mix.

Mordae · 28th August 2010

I'd start with giving guitars more low end and smoothing the top a bit.
You could also pan the guitars at around 50% on both sides to create a wider stereo field.

Also, try to add compression to everything. This should make your mix louder.
Last, add a limiter to the post effects.

And tell your band mates to shut up

Billy Maddox · 29th August 2010

Thanks for all of the replies! Though, I've already done most of the stuff suggested and that's my result. It's really heavily compressed (like, more than I care to compress) and for stereo imagining I have it set at (negative left, positive right):

-64 Rhythm Guitar
-48 Rhythm Guitar
-32 Lead Guitar
-16 Lead Guitar
-10 Bass
0 Vox
10 Bass
16 Lead Guitar
32 Lead Guitar
48 Rhythm Guitar
64 Rhythm Guitar

and drums are...

-48 Overhead Left
-32 Floor Tom
-16 Left Tom
-10 Snare
0 Kick
10 Snare
16 Right Tom
48 Overhead Right
(I have the toms panned to the drummers sitting position as opposed to the audiences perspective but he's left handed so it sorta works both ways)

Barney1981, I recorded the tracks through a Tascam US-1641 and onto Logic Pro 9. If you wanted to give mixing them a shot and then explain what you did that would be awesome!! I'm still in the process of learning how to do this so any help would be appreciated! Just let me know the easiest way of sending you the tracks.

EDIT: 64 is as deep as you can pan them.

chris.holtmeier · 1st September 2010

Sounds very center-panned to me. I'm on Logic as well, so if you want to send the tracks and project file (Dropbox works for this), I'll see what I can do and send the new project file your way.

CubeCity · 14th September 2010

What about going for a more "in-my-face" snare sound?

What about putting a lot of a short reverb on the snare, and boost low frequencies so you can feel it crack more? A very short room verb to widen the snare sound, while still keeping it up front.

toypajme · 14th September 2010

I'd ignore the guy who said add low end to the guitar you recorded.. that'll just make it muddy.

First I'd say the distortion you have is bad. You distorted it too much on the tracking. You don't need the same distortion when you record as you would live. It just doesn't sound good. If you turn the distortion back it will help make guitars more clear and end up a fatter sound when you follow this next piece of advice:

If you didn't double track I'd go back and do that.
The simplest way would be 57 the amp and record each part twice. Pan them hard left and right. Then leave the center for bass, vocals, kick, snare, etc..
This will free up alot of space in your mix for those elements, and it will help you achieve a "fat" sounding mix. Everything you listen to is achieved with methods similar to this. Some people even like doing more than double tracking (some to a ridiculous extreme). You could record 4 takes and pan hard left, left, right, hard right. Note this only works well if your guitarist can play the riff several times and be very accurate each time. If not it will sound washy.

Another thing is make sure you have a good guitar tone when you record it instead of being a revisionist about it with EQ.

Also, if you want to do anything to clear mud, you should do a small cut to guitars around 100 or 200 khz to free up some space for the bass. It sounds muddy because you have too much low end already.. and really thin high end.

Also when you do this, take the opportunity to turn the drums up. They are too low compared to the guitar. A good general rule of thumb is drums and vocals should seem the loudest, followed by guitar and then by bass. Alot of this can be achieved through compression rather than just pushing the volume knob around too much. For harder music compression is the way to go anyway.

It also sounds you're not 100% on EQ frequencies anyway, so this is a good website that may help bring some light to it in a simple way: http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.php

good luck

lettenmusic · 15th September 2010

sounds like there are some phase issues going on. Start over, take off all effects, and check for phase issues.

29th August 2010	#4
Billy Maddox Gear interested Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rapture Posts: 6 Thread Starter	Thanks for all of the replies! Though, I've already done most of the stuff suggested and that's my result. It's really heavily compressed (like, more than I care to compress) and for stereo imagining I have it set at (negative left, positive right): -64 Rhythm Guitar -48 Rhythm Guitar -32 Lead Guitar -16 Lead Guitar -10 Bass 0 Vox 10 Bass 16 Lead Guitar 32 Lead Guitar 48 Rhythm Guitar 64 Rhythm Guitar and drums are... -48 Overhead Left -32 Floor Tom -16 Left Tom -10 Snare 0 Kick 10 Snare 16 Right Tom 48 Overhead Right (I have the toms panned to the drummers sitting position as opposed to the audiences perspective but he's left handed so it sorta works both ways) Barney1981, I recorded the tracks through a Tascam US-1641 and onto Logic Pro 9. If you wanted to give mixing them a shot and then explain what you did that would be awesome!! I'm still in the process of learning how to do this so any help would be appreciated! Just let me know the easiest way of sending you the tracks. EDIT: 64 is as deep as you can pan them. Last edited by Billy Maddox; 29th August 2010 at 03:22 AM.. Reason: adding info.

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28th August 2010	#2
Barney1981 Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 152	Hi Billy What have you recorded the mix on? I would be happy to have a little go a remixing the track if you have all the audio files in the project mix. I will then give you a breakdown of what I did and see if you like the new mix. PM me if you are interested, I will do it for free of course . The main problem is the stereo imaging of the track, there is far too much focus down the middle, leaving the track with no depth and making it sound too thin. I agree the Line 6 insane channel is not ideal as it can be a bit noisy and overbearing but you can still get decent results from the mix.

28th August 2010	#3
Mordae Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 49	I'd start with giving guitars more low end and smoothing the top a bit. You could also pan the guitars at around 50% on both sides to create a wider stereo field. Also, try to add compression to everything. This should make your mix louder. Last, add a limiter to the post effects. And tell your band mates to shut up

1st September 2010	#5
chris.holtmeier Gear nut Join Date: May 2007 Location: Midwest Posts: 139	Sounds very center-panned to me. I'm on Logic as well, so if you want to send the tracks and project file (Dropbox works for this), I'll see what I can do and send the new project file your way.

14th September 2010	#6
CubeCity Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 27	What about going for a more "in-my-face" snare sound? What about putting a lot of a short reverb on the snare, and boost low frequencies so you can feel it crack more? A very short room verb to widen the snare sound, while still keeping it up front.

14th September 2010	#7
toypajme Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 18	I'd ignore the guy who said add low end to the guitar you recorded.. that'll just make it muddy. First I'd say the distortion you have is bad. You distorted it too much on the tracking. You don't need the same distortion when you record as you would live. It just doesn't sound good. If you turn the distortion back it will help make guitars more clear and end up a fatter sound when you follow this next piece of advice: If you didn't double track I'd go back and do that. The simplest way would be 57 the amp and record each part twice. Pan them hard left and right. Then leave the center for bass, vocals, kick, snare, etc.. This will free up alot of space in your mix for those elements, and it will help you achieve a "fat" sounding mix. Everything you listen to is achieved with methods similar to this. Some people even like doing more than double tracking (some to a ridiculous extreme). You could record 4 takes and pan hard left, left, right, hard right. Note this only works well if your guitarist can play the riff several times and be very accurate each time. If not it will sound washy. Another thing is make sure you have a good guitar tone when you record it instead of being a revisionist about it with EQ. Also, if you want to do anything to clear mud, you should do a small cut to guitars around 100 or 200 khz to free up some space for the bass. It sounds muddy because you have too much low end already.. and really thin high end. Also when you do this, take the opportunity to turn the drums up. They are too low compared to the guitar. A good general rule of thumb is drums and vocals should seem the loudest, followed by guitar and then by bass. Alot of this can be achieved through compression rather than just pushing the volume knob around too much. For harder music compression is the way to go anyway. It also sounds you're not 100% on EQ frequencies anyway, so this is a good website that may help bring some light to it in a simple way: http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.php good luck

15th September 2010	#8
lettenmusic Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: WI Posts: 400	sounds like there are some phase issues going on. Start over, take off all effects, and check for phase issues.