Just finished tracking and mixing...

[Tennis]

Hey,

Just finished tracking and mixing (and mastering I guess) my second full song. I think it came out well, at least a lot better than the first song I did, which was also posted on here a while back. Please comment on likes and dislikes, and maybe what you would do differently if anything.

The band is pretty different from most mainstream stuff I think. Anyways, the link is for a dropbox file, and I think Mac users may have trouble with it, thanks

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5967197/The%20Means%20MP3.mp3

[fzit0]

vocals too low
the drums and the guitar sound very very good !
they are very catchy

[Tennis]

Thanks! I mixed the vocals a little lower cause the effect the artist likes on them I think makes them a little harsh, so it's my attempt to keep them under control. Anyone else please don't hesitate to comment.

[tampa]

Yup vox need to come up, they are being over powered by the guitars.

[Tennis]

I agree sort of about the vox needing to be louder. When I go louder the vox are more obviously a weak point, this way they aren't as much I think. Maybe I should have spent more time tracking better vocals. This particular band needed many many takes for everything and by the time we got to vocals I just wanted to be done already. I can really say, lesson learned! Any more comments...

[Tennis]

Thanks! It's not me singing though. It is my brother's band and he's singing, but I played bass and drums because I didn't think his band-mates are skilled enough to lay it down as cleanly as I wanted it. The band is just starting out too and this was a new song of course.

A side note on those guitars and that riff, I actually had my brother record each string of the chords separately! Then I went in and used the Flex tool in Logic to make sure the changes were really tight. I think I got a ton more definition in the guitars than I would have otherwise. It's definitely something that works only in very specific situations, and I ended up with a ridiculous amount of guitar tracks (2 mics on the cab).

Thanks for the comments!

[AstralPStudios]

The only thing I can suggest for the effect issue is to just not mix in so much of it. I know exactly what you were going for as well as bched. You could probably bring the guitars down .5dB and see if that lets the vocals pop out some more and if that doesn't do it try 1-1.5dB you'll find the right number amount in that small of a range believe it or not. .5dB can make a world of difference.

[Tennis]

Spot on! Initially the mix had about a db less on guitars and less effect on the vocals and the mix was nicely balanced. The band wanted more guitar and more vocal effect, and as their "producer", what you hear in this mix is as much as I allowed for (They were ready to ruin the mix with much more of both). That said, recently they had the song played on the radio during a locals only hour called Homegrown and they said it sounded great and better than anything else that was played that night .

I feel that I can pat myself on the back on this one, but there is still a lot of things I plan to improve on the next one, which would only be my third full song!

Any more comments are welcome thumbsup

[AstralPStudios]

Bring it on! or as Joe Swanson says "ALRIIIIGHHHTT! COME GET SOME!!!!" lmao.

Let's hear some more.

[SimmonsCS28]

This song was great! Seems like everybody hit the same point I was thinking with the vocals so no need to re-iterate there. The tune is super catchy and I don't doubt it was the best thing anyone heard on that local show that night. Excellent job man. Keep recording and keep posting

[SimmonsCS28]

Another quick note, I've been killing time at work this morning going through this section of the forum just doing some critical listening and this is the first song I came across that I instinctively went back and listened to again.

[Affinity_Sound]

I'm not going to repeat the valid comments other have made. The track sounds good. Great recording.

Think the guitars could be less extremely panned... I know what you're going for..but it subtracts from the energy. The Bass could have some light distortion (grit) so you can hear its upper mids more. I'd try playing with the vox effect a tiny bit more.... Nearly there, but maybe just a bit to thin currently. Maybe try re-amping the vox through an amp and blend that in to a mix of other sounds? Probably needs a couple of layers of different types of distortion and weight. (really saturate the body in it, not necessarily the distortion.)

Personally I would edit the guitars some more. They need to be super tight in my opinion to really make them connect with the drums...which sound great btw.

Hope that helps,

Affinity

[saxmeister]

I agree about the guitar panning, the distortion on the bass to give it more cut. For the vocals, can you mix in more of the original signal, maybe a bit more compressed to help it cut? Just a thought...

Great track! I've listened to this one over and over again. Sticks in the ear in a good way. Nice work.

[Tennis]

Thanks for the kind words. I let the band know about the comments and they were glad to hear it, as was I since I had a hand in shaping that song. I dig the ideas too. Funny enough, as soon as I was done tracking for that song I ordered a Reamp. I thought it would have been an asset for adding to that kind of vocal sound. If the singer wants his vocals to sound that way again I will be adding some re-amped layers without a doubt.

I'm going to be swamped with school for a while so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get the band in again for another song, but they are eager too. One thing I will try is micing an actual bass amp along with the direct track. I also picked up a ribbon mic that I have already tried on electric guitars, and wow, it sounds great.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by Tennis

Thanks for the kind words. I let the band know about the comments and they were glad to hear it, as was I since I had a hand in shaping that song. I dig the ideas too. Funny enough, as soon as I was done tracking for that song I ordered a Reamp. I thought it would have been an asset for adding to that kind of vocal sound. If the singer wants his vocals to sound that way again I will be adding some re-amped layers without a doubt.

I'm going to be swamped with school for a while so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get the band in again for another song, but they are eager too. One thing I will try is micing an actual bass amp along with the direct track. I also picked up a ribbon mic that I have already tried on electric guitars, and wow, it sounds great.

It's always a good idea to mic AND DI bass just because. One or the other may work better in the mix. Options, options, options, that's what it's all about. That and making people walk out with a smile.

[Tennis]

It’s been a month since the last post, wow how time flies. As far as the bass and having options, I’m going to try a different approach. Instinctively, having options makes sense. But what if I go beyond that idea? My thinking for the next song I track will be to not need options. Instead, I will get exactly what I (or customer) want at the tracking stage. Why would I need options come mix down time if I have tracked it exactly how I want it? Every time I have refused to settle during tracking I have ended up with better results. Some have said that the guitars and drums sound great, well, it was because I tracked them how I wanted them. Thoughts?

[DavieB]

Hahaha, this is a crazy tune - love it! Snare needs a touch more low mid, it's a touch clicky. Bass needs to be bassy'er... Low end - lets have some...

[binarymilton]

My immediate impression was that there was a tiny bit too much top-end on the guitars (slightly harsh-sounding).

But I'm listening at work on a pair of headphones that I think are slightly top-end-boosting (a pair of AKG K-55s - just cheap consumer headphones) so I could be totally wrong. Worth doing a quick reference check (against, say, some White Stripes maybe) just to check that.

And, like the poster above said, could maybe do with a bit more bass, which might counterbalance that.

But I think you should just have upped the vocals, and not worried about that harsh effect on them. Effects are there for a reason - presumably the singer wanted a harsh, sarcastic-sounding vocal. Don't wimp out!

[Tennis]

While I do check the mix on a handful of different headphones, I wouldn't change something because of how it sounded on a poor pair of headphones. The guitars are a hair louder than where most people would like them (band's request) and that might be part of the problem too. As far as the bass, I just didn't like how it sounded with more bass, but I'm glad you guys feel it needs just a little more. Maybe it is still within acceptable limits. Maybe less bass is part of their sound .

As far as the vocals, it was more of the performance I was trying to hide than the effect. I think of it as a buried vocals mix like when I think of old Green Day or something similar. Although the effect wasn't all that pleasant anyways.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by Tennis

It’s been a month since the last post, wow how time flies. As far as the bass and having options, I’m going to try a different approach. Instinctively, having options makes sense. But what if I go beyond that idea? My thinking for the next song I track will be to not need options. Instead, I will get exactly what I (or customer) want at the tracking stage. Why would I need options come mix down time if I have tracked it exactly how I want it? Every time I have refused to settle during tracking I have ended up with better results. Some have said that the guitars and drums sound great, well, it was because I tracked them how I wanted them. Thoughts?

You want options because you may like one option over the other when mixing. Lots of people do this.

Take kicks for example beta 52 or D112+ SM91 = bad ass kick shaping.

Mic and DI bass in case one or the other works better in the mix.

Simple things like that. I don't mean put 5 mics on a snare or something lol.

[Tennis]

My problem right now with the idea of options is why would one need those options beyond having it sound the way it needs to. Saying that you need options says to me that you don't have a clear idea of what you want. It says to me that you are going to wait and see how things shape out and then try and make the best of it with what you got, hoping that you have something that will work, out of the options you've given yourself.

Clearly, if you are tracking things separately, first drums, then bass, etc, then you are obviously always going to be in the position of having to wait and see how things end up as each instrument is added in.

My point is, what if you went ahead and did not allow yourself options. No options. Just get it (bass drum, snare, guitar, etc) sounding incredibly amazing when you are tracking. So that everything builds on to what you have, and adds greatness to it. For example, you would find yourself saying "wow those drums sound so great, and now with that bass the way we have it, it fits together so right." In that situation, you should not be thinking "ok but lets also try a different mic or position just so we have that option during mixing." Furthermore, what position would you be in, if you were suggesting another option, just in case you need it. I doubt one would have it right anyways if you are still thinking you need other options.

I guess the moral of the story is that there is only one perfect sound, and it is better to find it before hitting record, than to give yourself options and hope you can find it later. And, if you have found that sound, wouldn't options just be useless and time consuming anyways? Maybe the real problem would be that one can't recognize when one does have it right. If you are done sound checking and you are about to start tracking and in the back of our mind you are thinking "maybe I should add a different option", shouldn't that be a red flag that you may not have it right to begin with.

I don't want to try to sound mean or anything, I just really want to have a thoughtful discussion and see what we can hash out thumbsup. Thoughts?