help my alt-country mix, what do you hear?

[butterfly]

..........hey Giezo.........yip it's all about the lyric................for me anyway.........and I think you have a good one there.............I'm not sure about the re-do, I still don't think it's quite optimal for the vocal...what are you usinf for the verb.............a plate is good but it's got to be the right plate.....obviously a real plate or Capitol styl echo chamber would be optimal....I'm sure there are guys on here with acess to the real deal....maybe they'll chime in and lend a hand...i only say this cause I think the song is special.........otherwise........send me the file and I'll run a few passes through my bricasti for youthumbsup

[mprewett]

Originally Posted by binarymilton

Yeah, I mean people have already namechecked Ethan Johns in this thread - bass on some of his mixes is pretty big.

Ditto for Robert Carranza.

And those guys are always cited as exemplary. No-one ever says their mixes are bottom-heavy, they say warm, natural, analogue, tape etc etc

Maybe I should clarify. It's not that there is a lot of bass, but that there is more low-end saturation than the other parts of the spectrum in the mix. And that the bass sounds unfocused and thus bleeds through the entirety of the mix rather than occupying its own space.

I compared the song to a bunch of mixes with "big" bass (including Ethan Johns' stuff) and with the exception of really heavily limited rock mixes, none of the mixes had the degree of bass weight and breadth that this mix does. The only song that came close was "Rain" by Patty Griffin and that low end presence was balanced by the rise in the presence of the midrange for her voice.

These are just my thoughts. Just one man's take. It's a great mix of a great song. I've listened to it a ton since viewing this thread. I just turn down the bass a bit.

[binarymilton]

Originally Posted by geizo94

I changed the vocal processing a little bit. I added a real quick stereo slap-back and pulled the verb way down, and changed it to a plate style. It kind of gives the lead a bit of a boxy/roomy sound, but I actually quite like it.
I also automated the lead vox and EQed it a little differently to give it more clarity. Boosted the hi mids around 500-700htz. what do you all think?

I think it's made those choppy electric guitar chords really stand out nicely, adds drama when they come in.

I think I prefer the lead vocal this way (slap-back rather than echo). It's funny, because now I'm just hearing it as two different approaches to the song (rather than right/wrong).

I still think the lead vocal could come up in volume a bit more. And I still think the chorus is sounding a bit cluttered, with too many instruments panned too centrally. Still sounds great though.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by geizo94

thanks for the input! Thats actually something I noticed listening in my car. I really proud of the lyrics, and I really want them to come through in the mix. I think I had a little bit of the "hearing my voice recorded" syndrome, so my first reaction was to kind of bury it in reverb. I've been experimenting with a slap back delay on the lead vox and I'm really liking it. I'll have some new mixes tomorrow.

You know what? Upon repeated listens, I actually think it sounds good as is. I've been guilty as anybody on second guessing myself. More times than I'd like to admit. You have a certain magic going on in this song and I'd hate for you to diminish that with obsessive hand wringing. I say just let love live and enjoy the vibe you have obtained. I mean how many times could the Band have re recorded the super vibey tracks they did? Sometimes a second chance ain't a positive thing.

[binarymilton]

Originally Posted by Quint

You know what? Upon repeated listens, I actually think it sounds good as is. I've been guilty as anybody on second guessing myself. More times than I'd like to admit. You have a certain magic going on in this song and I'd hate for you to diminish that with obsessive hand wringing. I say just let love live and enjoy the vibe you have obtained. I mean how many times could the Band have re recorded the super vibey tracks they did? Sometimes a second chance ain't a positive thing.

Yeah, it's probably time to forget about this song for a while and maybe work on some other stuff. Come back to it in a week or two.

[marcreeves]

Originally Posted by mprewett

Maybe I should clarify. It's not that there is a lot of bass, but that there is more low-end saturation than the other parts of the spectrum in the mix. And that the bass sounds unfocused and thus bleeds through the entirety of the mix rather than occupying its own space.

I compared the song to a bunch of mixes with "big" bass (including Ethan Johns' stuff) and with the exception of really heavily limited rock mixes, none of the mixes had the degree of bass weight and breadth that this mix does. The only song that came close was "Rain" by Patty Griffin and that low end presence was balanced by the rise in the presence of the midrange for her voice.

These are just my thoughts. Just one man's take. It's a great mix of a great song. I've listened to it a ton since viewing this thread. I just turn down the bass a bit.

I'm not sure what you are hearing, but the bass sounds far from unfocused to me! It's a big, warm, fat bassline, but it is still tight, punchy and focused. It's great and not interfering with anything imo.

Still, each to their own thumbsup I must say I've heard plenty of mixes of similar genres and vibes with this kind of bassline. It makes total sense when it kicks in, first time I heard the song, I was expecting it before it came in, just felt natural.

[marcreeves]

Originally Posted by binarymilton

Yeah, it's probably time to forget about this song for a while and maybe work on some other stuff. Come back to it in a week or two.

I totally agree with this. Work on another track for a few weeks, then come back to this one.

I listened to the new mix, I think the vocal changes work, but I would still automate in some of that original verb at the end of each phrase. The level automation still needs a bit of work, the odd line seems to fall back a bit.

Honestly though? I think you should stick with the original mix. You captured some magic there, with the way the vocals sounded, and the way that sound interacted with everything else. I would keep it how it was, but just pull the whole vocal track up a db or two. I really think you've created a stunning piece of work here, and like others have said, it would be a shame for you to overthink the mix (which is easy to do.)

You will never be 100% happy with your mixes. I think it's just learning when you're happy enough.

[geizo94]

thanks guys, I think you're totally right. I'm actually headed to a friend's studio to re-track the midi organ with an actual B3 w/ Leslie, but after that i'm just gonna sit on it for a while. Maybe revisit when I have another song for the project ready to mix.

All of your input have been greatly appreciated, thanks for taking the time and sharing your thoughts with me!
Chris

[Teddy Ray]

just want to say, goddamn, that is a great, great track..

summons up whiskeytown, jayhawks, and i see hawks in la.

I will buy the whole album.

no complaints here, well one... I would deaden the snare a bit and have everything sound like it was in the same room(the various verbs are confusing)

great, great stuff man. damn

[geizo94]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

just want to say, goddamn, that is a great, great track..

summons up whiskeytown, jayhawks, and i see hawks in la.

I will buy the whole album.

no complaints here, well one... I would deaden the snare a bit and have everything sound like it was in the same room(the various verbs are confusing)

great, great stuff man. damn

wow, thanks teddy! I'll let all the slutz know when the ep's done.

now regarding the verb that you're talking about, are you referring to the vocal verb? Because the drums are completely dry. In fact the only verb in the whole song is on the vocals, piano and electric guitar.

I did however end up side chaining the room mics to the snare, could that be what you're hearing?
Thanks again!
chris

[marcreeves]

The drum sound is perfect! Do NOT change any of it, particularly the snare, I love that snare

And yes please let us know when the EP is out, I will be wanting a copy

[JohnnyHardHat]

This is one of the best songs I've heard on Gearslutz! Wow, please state where to purchase when available! Both mixes are interesting, but I prefer the first one for its moodier reverb. I think it suits the lyrical content.

If you were to change anything (and believe me its not necessary!) I could see bringing the the snare back (or slightly down) a hair to meld into the vocals a bit more and also put a predelay on the vocal reverb and shorten the tail a hair to make it more intimate.

The song and performances are sooo good and tasty though you really don't need to do a thing. Man I wish I could write something like this. So well done I keep listening over and over! Oh and please put the name of the band in a post. Thanks!

[kodaz]

The only thing I don't like about this is the snare - for me it's too upfront and boxy and is distracting from the vocal/lyric of the song which is of course the heart and soul of it all.

Otherwise great!

[geizo94]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHardHat

This is one of the best songs I've heard on Gearslutz! Wow, please state where to purchase when available! Both mixes are interesting, but I prefer the first one for its moodier reverb. I think it suits the lyrical content.

If you were to change anything (and believe me its not necessary!) I could see bringing the the snare back (or slightly down) a hair to meld into the vocals a bit more and also put a predelay on the vocal reverb and shorten the tail a hair to make it more intimate.

The song and performances are sooo good and tasty though you really don't need to do a thing. Man I wish I could write something like this. So well done I keep listening over and over! Oh and please put the name of the band in a post. Thanks!

Thanks Johnny HH! I'm gonna revisit this mix when I have more songs done, bit I'm pretty sure I'm gonna mess with the verb on the vox.

It's not really a band, it's just me, and I don't have this song up anywhere online other than GS (slutz exclusive! haha). but I am the singer/songwriter of a band called Surrogate: www.myspace.com/surrogateparty. Not really the same vein of music, but still me.

Thanks again for all the great input, everyone! You've made me much more confident to do my own thing!

Chris Keene

[fzit0]

the vocal has a little too much reverb
i dont really like the snare, it has too much lows and no highs
make the vocals more present

[S-Quest]

I love it, I'd buy it. Some of the previous postings are right on. The snare is tough, I don't think there is too much reverb, I just think it needs a better reverb. SMALL changes to these items (and I stress SMALL again), and this track is in a new echelon. Thank you for sharing it with us!! thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[Amun Ra]

Beautiful song. I like everything about the first mix apart from the lead vocals. I would mix her much drier - just a touch of plate with a healthy bit of predelay, to give me some real intimacy. The vocals should be both louder and closer over all. Great work, drums and accoustic guitar sound fantastic! The groove is so sweet...

Care to share some info on the recording and processing of the accoustic guitar?

[Mark A. Jay]

Personally, I like the mix the way it's done, pretty much soup-to-nuts. The one thing that I think could be changed (and this is a minor tweak) is to take out some of the mid-bass; I think someone else mentioned around 400 Hz, and I think they are right based on a quick re-eq of the track. Also, a mild notch around 120 Hz (maybe 3-4 dB attenuation with pretty high-Q). When I tried it (notching at 120 as well as 400 or thereabouts), it helped clean up the vocal articulation.

Apart from that though, I think you're to be commended. I found the track very listenable with solid musical performances and nice mixing touches, and the fact that it's a nice tune doesn't hurt.

Again, nice work.

[once a roadie]

sounds great - the snare has too much low end on the altec lansing inmotion im9 player (ipod dock thingy I attach to the laptop, good test unit)...it may want to be fixed up a bit...

It really sounds better on the JBLs in the studio for sure!!!

I'd love to mix this if you get bored with it...really really nice track!

PS - the first mix vibe has more spooky sad bastard voodoo I think

[Quint]

Originally Posted by geizo94

It's an alt country/sad bastard jam, along the lines of jason isbell/driveby truckers or whiskeytown. Didn't use auto tune so please excuse the pitchiness, but i think it fits the music. I'm pretty happy with this mix, but I know that it could be better. If you have a moment let me know what you think, and what could be better.

Also, and production notes would be greatly appreciated!


Gear:
Drums: 90's DW kit, zildjion platinum 18" crash, A custom 20 ride, new beat hats. AT4047's as over heads, 2 cascade fatheads as rooms, audix i5 and shure sm81 on snare, sennheiser e 602 on toms, shure beta 52 on kick. OH and rooms through focusrite red 1, all else through presonus M80 with ACP88.

Bass and electric guitar DI w/ modelers.

all else either at4050 with UA LA-610 or midi.

By the way, what converters did you use for this? Just curious.

[geizo94]

quint: For the drums I used the converters in the PTHD 96 rack at the studio I work out of, for everything else I used my 003 at my house.

I've had a few people ask to mix the song, so I'm going to upload mp3s of all the files to sendspace tonight, anyone who is interested is more than welcome to have at 'em! I'm really excited to hear other people's takes on it.
I'll post a link in a few hours.

[geizo94]

Here are the raw files for anyone interested.

Download can't go home mp3s.zip from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

chris

[Parsonage]

Here's my take on your terrific song:

I_Cant_Go_Home0.mp3 - I Can't Go Home - BADONGO

Thanks for letting me play!

Jeff Knauff

[geizo94]

Hey Jeff, I'm probably just being an idiot, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to download your mix. Any chance you could attach it to a post? I'm anxious to hear it!
chris

[Parsonage]

That's first time (and last) that I used Badonga. What a pain! See if this works:

[geizo94]

OHHH, so THATS what a reverb is supposed to sound like!
Seriously though, jeff you did a great job. Your mix just cleaned everything up, it made all the parts pop a lot more than my mix.
Thanks a ton, man. Really nice work!
chris

[Parsonage]

Glad you liked it, Chris. I enjoyed working on it, and I really like the song. I wanted the mix to draw attention to the best elements of the song: the lyrics and your voice. Although I wish you had made it clearer that you were a guy - I was developing a crush for a while there!

PM me if you want a 24-bit version of the mix.

[once a roadie]

nice mix Parsonage! damn.

anyhow - i did a bit with it here as well...

[once a roadie]

wow - the fathead room tracks sound really good. where did you put them in relation to the drumkit? what mic pattern / configuration did you use?


edit** found it** (two cascade fatheads placed about cymbal level 10 feet away from the kit) to the snare.

Originally Posted by geizo94

Gear:
Drums: 90's DW kit, zildjion platinum 18" crash, A custom 20 ride, new beat hats. AT4047's as over heads, 2 cascade fatheads as rooms, audix i5 and shure sm81 on snare, sennheiser e 602 on toms, shure beta 52 on kick. OH and rooms through focusrite red 1, all else through presonus M80 with ACP88.

Bass and electric guitar DI w/ modelers.

all else either at4050 with UA LA-610 or midi.

[Liquid Caravan]

Dude,
Badass track man! I got lost in the song and forgot to listen to the mix:-)