What am I doing wrong?

[J F K]

Two short clips of a project I'm working on. At the moment, it's just guitar and drums, I'll post more as it gets completed. Have a couple of questions:

1.) Am I wasting my time trying to get that big wall of guitars out of THIS:



I've tried alot of differnt ways to make it bigger (Recording w/ two mics panning them & delaying L&R different values, Recording one mic panning it and delaying either side, double tracking, double tracking and delaying, THE LIST GOES ON) and I just can't seem to get it. Should I just stop now?

2.) Are the drums worth a damn? My drum room is very limited so I have to resort to gated renverb on the snare.

Any other comments would be appreciated. It kind of seems I've reached a plateau and my mixes are coming out very similar. I'd like to point my finger and blame it on the gear, but I'd rather work on myself first. Thanks in advance


The Tracks:
http://www.dwjk.net/JOS(Preview2).mp3
http://www.dwjk.net/JOS(Preview).mp3 (This one doesn't have much limiting and isn't very loud compared to the 1st one)

[everybody's x]

you should realize that a huge part of a "wall of guitars" is the bass, so right off the bat you are missing the bottom third of that sound.
I dont hear anything unfixable in it.
what are you going for? could you give a reference idea?

[J F K]

The actual song is for a cover competition, and it's actually a Green Day song, so, any of the songs of their latest album would be a great example of what I'm going for. Foo Fighters, Jimmy Eat World, Emery are all other good examples

[everybody's x]

Ok try this
Ive never messed with that particular amp but huge guitars sounds come from little amps all the time,

First turn your gain WAY back like maybe 6-7 tops, turn the amp up until you can see the speaker actually moving when you hit a chord. It may sound weak to you when you hear it but bear with me.

set your treble around 6.5, mids around 4, bass around 4, presence 6-7, this is all just a general starting point, make it sound like you want it to.

Take a single 57 one inch from the cone of the speaker in the center of the speaker. Try to point the mic somewhere around the outside edge of the dustcap. Adjust the mic until your getting a nice full range signal.

track two takes on each side as tight as you possibly can, pan them hard two to a side.

then put a big fat fuzz bass sound dead up the middle

mess around with that and see if you get closer

(before slippy or some other guitar guru jumps in and flames me Im trying to give some general ideas here)

[everybody's x]

also do a search for "american idiot" you'll find posts from people who actually recorded them

or a bunch of people who think we're idiots

[Jason Poulin]

Also,

Make sure the sound emmitting from your cab's speakers is the sound you want on your album.

When I mic my amp, it's to replicate exactly what is coming out. Then you have to select the type of placement from proximity to the inner or outer cone. You'll get plenty of tones there too.

#1 good player
#2 good gear that is sounding like you want it to.
#3 a good mic/preamp/placement on the cone.
#4 analog tape
#5 multiple takes if you don't have multiple amps (make sure you check for phase is you use multiple mics) Find the null spot with white noise and flip your phase
#6 Get a bad ass Mesa rig. (haha my personnal choice... it's not the only rig)
#7 Don't think you can fix it in the mix. Get it right during tracking. You'll hurt your head trying to eq the shit out of something that will never work.

All these things have to be taken into consideration when tracking. Loose one of those elements and you're going to be dissatisfied.

Good luck!

Ps: Trim your gain down to where you can strum a C or G chord and here it clearly and cleanly. Unless you're tracking thrashmetal

Jason

[Beezoboy]

Also I hear your guitars are out of tune with each other around 7 - 8 seconds. Fix that first.

1. I would say you could try using proximity effect to your advantage and get right up on that little amp. Also, try putting the mic off axis to smooth out the highs.

2. Got a bass drum mic? Use that to try an catch some really good bottom and low mids. Low pass that track around say 2 - 4k and mix it in.

3. Try putting a reverb or delay on a set of tracks and mix that in.

4. Also maybe download a free guitar sim plug and try that to alter your sound and mix it in.

5. Can you run an extension cab? Try hooking a 12" speaker up. Borrow one if you don't have one.

Seriously the options are limitless almost. The whole idea behind wall of sound is "lots of DIFFERENT sounds, especially different amp sounds, blended together to make 1 huge sound."

Work on that and then lets hear what you get.

Beez

[DontLetMeDrown]

Dude-- Your tone sounds good. Like the 2nd poster said, the wall that most guitarists think is the "wall of guitars" it mostly bass. Track some bass onto that bad boy!

Good luck thumbsup

[J F K]

Thanks for the advice guys

After a bit of expermenting, I think I got all I could of this amp.


And In my opinion, it sounds pretty damn good

Tell me what you think

http://www.dwjk.net/josample.mp3

Thanks again guys, great advice as always