Modern rock mix - Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Three Days Grace style. Opinions?? =)

[espfb200]

First off, thanks for listening! Please comment. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Here is a general rundown of the gear used to record this song:

Pro Tools M-Powered 7.4
M-audio Delta 1010 Interface
Focusrite platinum series preamps (octopre & twintrak pro)
Mesa amps - no cabs were used, only direct into a......
Koch Loadbox II
Pacific and Zildjian
Blue Bluebird (vocals)

enjoy!

[Mixbuster]

Very cool intro. Good arrangement.


The snare is maybe a little to smashed and hifi sounding. The cymbals also sounds a little to hifi, needs a little more beef.
The toms also needs a little more bottom end and some cutting freqs so they sound more solid.

Guitars sounds awesome


You get tired in your ears after listening to the track, it needs to sound a little more neutral.
Other than that, good work thumbsup

[espfb200]

Originally Posted by Mixbuster

Very cool intro. Good arrangement.


The snare is maybe a little to smashed and hifi sounding. The cymbals also sounds a little to hifi, needs a little more beef.
The toms also needs a little more bottom end and some cutting freqs so they sound more solid.

Guitars sounds awesome


You get tired in your ears after listening to the track, it needs to sound a little more neutral.
Other than that, good work thumbsup

Mixbuster,

Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated. I'm definitely going to take a listen and keep your input in mind. Thanks again. I'm new to gearslutz and I LOVE THIS PLACE.

Anybody else??

[vettloffah]

very impressive, especially considering your modest setup

[Crazy Drummer69]

I agree with Mixbuster except for the toms (according to my crappy speakers). The toms sound great, but I don't have monitors any more so my sound is biased. The kit sounds more like a pop/punk kit than a heavy rock kit. the snare sounds a bit out of place, not enough width. I like the song, and the production and cool fx used, keep up the good work

[mobius.media]

Reminds me of Stabbing Westward. Pretty good.

[espfb200]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

Reminds me of Stabbing Westward. Pretty good.

Thanks Mobius, I appreciate the feedback!

Originally Posted by Crazy Drummer69

I agree with Mixbuster except for the toms (according to my crappy speakers). The toms sound great, but I don't have monitors any more so my sound is biased. The kit sounds more like a pop/punk kit than a heavy rock kit. the snare sounds a bit out of place, not enough width. I like the song, and the production and cool fx used, keep up the good work

Actually, I'm going to have to agree with Mixbuster on the toms. lol. I know it seems a little self-condemning, but the toms are a little weak. Listen on a good system and you can hear the difference in punchiness between the kick/snare and toms. Well, I guess I've got some mixing to do.....

Thanks for the feedback guys. Anyone else??

[AnotherDan]

Just listened in my headphones - Awesome track... Thumbs up...

[espfb200]

Originally Posted by DanTrist

Just listened in my headphones - Awesome track... Thumbs up...

hey dan, thanks for the feedback. much appreciated! heres a question for anyone who cares to answer: what do you think is the weakest link in the mix as far as sound quality goes? vocals, guitars, bass, etc... personally, i think its the drums but id like to hear from others on the matter. thanks!!

[cooker]

very nice song but you've squashed the limiter too much you can get more detailed replys if you post the mix version.

[AnotherDan]

Something I think could be worked on... You are by far more skilled than i am - so take it for what it's worth

The drums in general are too low, i think you should try to put down the level on the guitars and vocals a couple of db's. Maybe get the snare to be a bit more punchy - I find that it fit's the style...

A single comment on the vocal performance; the backing vocals around 3:00 is somehow off. I have noticed it each time i've played the track..

And final i want to emphasize it's really is an awesome track, are you playing yourself? Or are you "just" mixing?

[Lifted]

Originally Posted by espfb200

First off, thanks for listening! Please comment. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Here is a general rundown of the gear used to record this song:

Pro Tools M-Powered 7.4
M-audio Delta 1010 Interface
Focusrite platinum series preamps (octopre & twintrak pro)
Mesa amps - no cabs were used, only direct into a......
Koch Loadbox II
Pacific and Zildjian
Blue Bluebird (vocals)

enjoy!

I like it man, sounds very modern in a good way. Something you can hear on the radio mixed in a good studio.

With only 1 thing that needs to be worked on: Vocals.

The sibilance is still kind of unnatural, it's a nature of the mic, I have a bluebird also.

The de-esser is catching a part of the S and decreases it, but there is still a portion of it that just pops out, and sounds very unnatural. On the hooks you can hear that.

Places I have noticed that for example: 1:55 = "World's"
1:58 = "Hurts"

While on the whispering parts it sounds natural, it sounds kind of strange in some parts, because of the BlueBirds design, it just jumps at you with a sharp metallic Z/S sound. If you can fix that, the words will have a better transitions from phrase to phrase.

It's minor mistake, but can be easily fixed as well, and increase overall quality of the sound, which is pretty amazing as it is.

The toms actually work in the context of the song, if you want you can add low end as someone said, but they do work here. Doesn't sound bad.

Guitars are the keepers on the track for sure.

Vocal is really the main thing to fix, other than that it's great.

Parallel compression can REALLY help with overall sound of the drums, and their presence and PUNCH that you still need, added to taste.

[espfb200]

Originally Posted by cooker

very nice song but you've squashed the limiter too much you can get more detailed replys if you post the mix version.

I figured someone might notice =P. Thanks for the advice, next time I'll do a mix version. Sorry, I'm still a gearslutz no0b!

Originally Posted by AnotherDan

Something I think could be worked on... You are by far more skilled than i am - so take it for what it's worth

The drums in general are too low, i think you should try to put down the level on the guitars and vocals a couple of db's. Maybe get the snare to be a bit more punchy - I find that it fit's the style...

A single comment on the vocal performance; the backing vocals around 3:00 is somehow off. I have noticed it each time i've played the track..

And final i want to emphasize it's really is an awesome track, are you playing yourself? Or are you "just" mixing?

Thanks man, there is a lot to ponder in your reply, I'm gonna go back to the song and check it out. I appreciate all the good pointers. To answer your question, I play drums for the band in addition to doing all of the recording/mixing/mastering. We are called "Our Waking Hour". Here's a link to our myspace

Originally Posted by Lifted

I like it man, sounds very modern in a good way. Something you can hear on the radio mixed in a good studio.

With only 1 thing that needs to be worked on: Vocals.

The sibilance is still kind of unnatural, it's a nature of the mic, I have a bluebird also.

The de-esser is catching a part of the S and decreases it, but there is still a portion of it that just pops out, and sounds very unnatural. On the hooks you can hear that.

Places I have noticed that for example: 1:55 = "World's"
1:58 = "Hurts"

While on the whispering parts it sounds natural, it sounds kind of strange in some parts, because of the BlueBirds design, it just jumps at you with a sharp metallic Z/S sound. If you can fix that, the words will have a better transitions from phrase to phrase.

It's minor mistake, but can be easily fixed as well, and increase overall quality of the sound, which is pretty amazing as it is.

The toms actually work in the context of the song, if you want you can add low end as someone said, but they do work here. Doesn't sound bad.

Guitars are the keepers on the track for sure.

Vocal is really the main thing to fix, other than that it's great.

Parallel compression can REALLY help with overall sound of the drums, and their presence and PUNCH that you still need, added to taste.

Hey lifted, your detailed response is MUCH appreciated! I'm going to go back to the track and check it out. Thanks a lot, you guys seriously ROCK!

[stereomixer]

Great work!
A few suggestions. Watch out the snare does not get lost in the chorus, sound slike it needs a little bottom on it for more thud. The delays on the LV are a bit wet and a little long, sometimes the words get garbled in the verses. Sounds also like there is a bit too much compression over the whole mix as the mix dips a little here and there. Maybe slower attack.
The bottom is good, maybe a bit more edge on the Bass to give it some growl, especially in the verses. I like your use of the doubles stereo lead vocals, it helps the clarity.
Really good approach and overall aesthetic!

Originally Posted by espfb200

First off, thanks for listening! Please comment. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Here is a general rundown of the gear used to record this song:

Pro Tools M-Powered 7.4
M-audio Delta 1010 Interface
Focusrite platinum series preamps (octopre & twintrak pro)
Mesa amps - no cabs were used, only direct into a......
Koch Loadbox II
Pacific and Zildjian
Blue Bluebird (vocals)

enjoy!

[Beyersound]

I like your playing! Please give the details of how you recorded and mixed the drums. I agree that the snare could use just a bit of help, maybe less compressed or a different compressor. Would help to know what you used. Cheers.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by espfb200

To answer your question, I play drums for the band in addition to doing all of the recording/mixing/mastering. We are called "Our Waking Hour". Here's a link to our myspace

Firstly, cool mix!

Did you lock to grid and sample replace? It's sounds like it. If not, then you play like a machine.

There are a lot of parts in the song that feel as if they could use some swing or in the pocket feel "loosing the fight in the final round" some riffs near the end of the song, etc... the guitars lay back a bit which is nice.. makes me wonder if you were playing that way and then it was lost during quantize? ...some of the snare fills feel too mechanical... could be samples or quantize... the parts you are playing are really cool through.

Good artful choices here ... all the mix elements work together well. thumbsup

[pasquierg]

I just find your mix really impressive. The guitars seem to have such very large stereo image but still are very punchy! That's great!

[espfb200]

Sorry guys, it's been a while since I've been on here! Thanks for all of your feedback, you guys are amazing.

Originally Posted by Beyersound

I like your playing! Please give the details of how you recorded and mixed the drums. I agree that the snare could use just a bit of help, maybe less compressed or a different compressor. Would help to know what you used. Cheers.

I used a Pacific all maple kit with Zildjian cymbals for the recording. 57's on toms/snare, Beta 52 on Kick. This is irrelevant though, because all toms/snare/kicks were replaced. I've got 2 Shure pg81s for overheads in xy config. A blue bluebird was used for hi hat, and an AKG C4000b was used over the other side of the kit to help capture a china/splash/crash I have over there and help with the stereo image. Toms/Kick were eqed to taste and the snare has a waves api2500 compressor and some IR reverb on it.

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

Firstly, cool mix!

Did you lock to grid and sample replace? It's sounds like it. If not, then you play like a machine.

There are a lot of parts in the song that feel as if they could use some swing or in the pocket feel "loosing the fight in the final round" some riffs near the end of the song, etc... the guitars lay back a bit which is nice.. makes me wonder if you were playing that way and then it was lost during quantize? ...some of the snare fills feel too mechanical... could be samples or quantize... the parts you are playing are really cool through.

Good artful choices here ... all the mix elements work together well. thumbsup

Great ear norman! Yes drums were replaced, and yes, quantized. Guilty as charged lol. The samples I used for this song are not great. Overall raw quality, I rate them a 5 out of 10. Unfortunately, these were the only drums samples available to me at the time and only contain 1 velocity, so I've really got to do a lot of tweaking to get them to sound good. They turned out in my opinion to be about a 7/10. Luckily I was able to get my hands on Steven Slate Drums 3.5 recently. I give these raw samples a 7/10, so hopefully once I start to mix with them, I'll be able to get them up to a 9 or 10. Thanks a lot for the feedback. I've been listening to the track after everyones' feedback and taking notes on it. Everyone's pretty much been confirming everything I've thought. THANKS!!

Originally Posted by pasquierg

I just find your mix really impressive. The guitars seem to have such very large stereo image but still are very punchy! That's great!

Thanks! Much appreciated. I'm surprised at the great feedback I've gotten on guitars, especially since they were tracked without a cab! thumbsup

[Bater]

Just wanted to say I really like this track! Very much something I would listen to a lot. Its already been said, but the only thing I would change is to add a little more beef in the drums. Great Job!

[espfb200]

Originally Posted by Bater

Just wanted to say I really like this track! Very much something I would listen to a lot. Its already been said, but the only thing I would change is to add a little more beef in the drums. Great Job!

Awesome! Thanks so much.

[meliosk]

Originally Posted by espfb200

First off, thanks for listening! Please comment. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Here is a general rundown of the gear used to record this song:

Pro Tools M-Powered 7.4
M-audio Delta 1010 Interface
Focusrite platinum series preamps (octopre & twintrak pro)
Mesa amps - no cabs were used, only direct into a......
Koch Loadbox II
Pacific and Zildjian
Blue Bluebird (vocals)

enjoy!

very very good ! can you explain the guitar mixing procedures ,panning, how many overdubs,

[ellipse]

I actually really like this song. Sorry if I missed it, but whats the name of the band?

[binarymilton]

not much to say about this one - it strikes me as a very professional sounding mix.
I'd have to have something very specific to compare it too if I was really determined to find fault with it!

Though I do agree with comments that mention the drums. For me the problem is less that the toms stand out, it's that they stand out because they sound more like real toms than the snare, which sounds programmed to me (particularly on those snare rolls). If it is a programmed snare, you might like to try a different snare, or the same snare but slightly-differently-pitched for some of the beats of those snare rolls. And/or EQing the snare slightly differently.

(Although, that said, it does seem to be occupying the right timbral space - you can hear it perfectly clearly, it just doesn't quite have the natural attack and 'verb that a real snare skin stretched tightly over a cylinder does. I'm gonna look like a real idiot if you now tell me the drums are real!)

Oh, one other thing - right at the end of the track, in the silence, there seems to be a bit of low-end hum. I didn't detect it during the song, only at that point, but it might be more noticeable on a real big speaker system.

Double check that - have a listen and make sure there isn't any phantum mud at the bottom of your track. Have a look on a spectrum analyser, and roll off any alarming low-end if you see any. If you're using a microphone there will almost certainly be some low-end rumble, even if you can't hear it on a casual listen. And heavy compression will up this.

[binarymilton]

hey, guess I should have read your post about replacing the drums with samples before I posted! That makes sense now.

Can i ask why you replaced the live drums, if that's not an impertinent question?

[jaymzyates]

Very good job. You put some effort into this, sounds like it payed off.

I really enjoyed listening to the guitar tracks, I use Mesa myself (triple recto, tremoverb and a triaxis) and have been searching for a decent load box for a while, I've used redboxes and an Ultra 5, neither is getting near the sound your Koch Loadbox II seems to be getting.

Sounds like I will be picking one of those up.

Great job on everything.

[Kolt45]

God damn dude, thats a good mix

[George Necola]

awesome track! good vox.

I dont like the compression. it's a bit over the top.. every time the kick hits the limiter the track goes down..

except that.. hey.. I am jealous!

[espfb200]

Originally Posted by George Necola

awesome track! good vox.

I dont like the compression. it's a bit over the top.. every time the kick hits the limiter the track goes down..

except that.. hey.. I am jealous!

Thanks I think the general problem with this track is some master bus compression and multiband limiting that is creating some issues with the drums. ie. snare not having enough umph, kick making the track pump too much. Everyone's feed back is awesome! Ya'll have confirmed some things in my head, heard some some things that I haven't, and given me a great outline in which to go back to the track and take notes so I can improve my mix/master in the future. You slutz rock, thanks so much! thumbsup

[jaymzyates]

The snare production on Breaking Benjamin's Phobia comes to mind as being one of the best i've ever heard in that genre. I know he is using a couple of different snares, but that thing cracks!

[Kolt45]

I think it sounds alot like Disturbed