Need Big Vocals!!!

[DP40oz]

I've always had problems getting vocals to sound "Real" and not demo ish. Here's a mix of a band im doing and its the same vocal problem. I put a touch of UAD phaser, some medium room reverb, and a quick delay all through sends, and the vocals still seem dry and too in your face. Any advice on how to get a bigger more pro vocal sound.

www.feffband.com/Isolate.mp3

The band is called ZO2, they toured with KISS last summer.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by DP40oz

Any advice on how to get a bigger more pro vocal sound.

Stay away from the plugs and use real outboard gear.

Vocals and snares have a lot of dynamics and mid detail and outboard gear helps in bringing them out.

Also these 2 instruments will expose bad processing because of the mid detail.

[NeoVXR]

I think you have a little gap in the midrange and the "presence" range is a bit crowded but also more transparent (or digitally clean) than usual.
you might experiment with a multiband comp on the vocals and an EQ'd soft delay.
on the snare you are boosting high ranges, ok, but maybe some Q is set too narrow. I would use different brands of EQ for snare and vocals in this digital mix..

I like the music!

[scruffydog]

your guitars are too heavy/up front/over eq in lower mid area.
You try to make more power but you try too hard..but just a bit.
The voice will be helped by this change too. Compress the guitars then Take a waves 4 band eq and pull out a little at 500k and hi pass anything below 90k and turn them down a little.
Bring the voice up a couple of db's.
Just some thoughts to try.
Excellent!
rob

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by scruffydog

your guitars are too heavy/up front/over eq in lower mid area.
You try to make more power but you try too hard..but just a bit.
The voice will be helped by this change too. Compress the guitars then Take a waves 4 band eq and pull out a little at 500k and hi pass anything below 90k and turn them down a little.
Bring the voice up a couple of db's.
Just some thoughts to try.
Excellent!
rob

I agree with this...

Voice is too small...but it is also so far back it can't compete with the guitars...

The guitars sound good and full...use the same 'mind-frame' for the vocals.
More delay..more top end...and bring them FORWARD!!!!

Respect bro...

[DP40oz]

Thanks for the feedback guys keep it coming PLEASE!!! The midrange gap that was mentioned maybe that i pulled a ton of 175-250 out of the bass. I just listened to the mix on my laptop and the bass dissapeared so im gonna definitely work on that. As far as presence build up, that has always been a problem in my mixes. The upper mids seem to be very prominent and i usually cut alot out and my mixes sound dull and scooped so i didnt this time. As far as the guitars i have them filtered out at 100hz and basically no eq just a small touch of 500 pulled out. But vocally i just can't seem to do anything right. I can mix for hours trying different things and that "Real" sound is just not happening. Im really trying hard on this one so please keep the suggestions coming guys.

[alnico]

You didn't say how/what you recorded the vocals with but they aren't THAT bad. It got bigger when the vocals doubled up.Maybe that could do some good on the choruses. Bang it into an 1176, or Distressor. It sound to me like it's an overall EQ imbalance. The guitars COULD get a little brighter. I would try splitting the difference by bringing down the high freqs overall on other elements such as the drums. I prefer warmer guitars. Maybe a slight more mid-grind on the bass to fill in the mid-gap.Try some slight Eventide P/Shifting on the vox if you have one. Finally, if you're looking for a better quality vocal than you may need to upgrade you're vocal chain. ***The beginning of the word "Been" in the second pre-chorus is clipped...*** Cool singer, nice gtr solo tone

[NeoVXR]

IMO the mid gap is partially caused by imperfection of vocal mix.
(of course, a bit with other instruments, and geometrically by the enhanced presence)
you can't focus on the "CD-ready" sound alone, you need to know the intermediate levels, how it is made. part of it will be mastering. many products will never sound real without professional mastering, where you get the perfect EQ balance of the total sound, and things are glued together, beefed up, whatever can be done.
the mix is the mix is the mix...
(and its not bad, just keep on!)

[DP40oz]

Hey guys heres another Vocal mix i did, once again i can't get the vocals to sit right. It sounds as if they are to close even if they are soft... but verbs, and delays are just making them sound like there all by themselves in a room kinda of separating them from the rest of the mix. I cut down a little presence in the snare which someone recommended and i also eq'd the vox a little different. Please some vocal suggestions guys, help a new slut out.

www.feffband.com/Isolate1.mp3

[NeoVXR]

well I think vocals sit much better now, the current problem may be simple if my guess is right.
do you use a multiband comp?
anyway vocals are too loud in volume, and the compressor stuffs them back into the cake, but this pushes aside the guitars, so they never meet properly.
another thing, still the echoes are not quite where I would expect them. instead, the early reflections have a bit too much duration (= NOT delay time). this makes it sound a bit boxy also (bathroom mid-range; try to EQ the effects separately in the send).
this version is more old-school which is not bad at all. but these are regularly done with certain automated echo tricks. vocal sound itself is definitely better now.
also, somehow I like the kick better.

you could do a roundtrip through levels without any bus processing, then slowly switch in and adapt.

[scruffydog]

I like it a lot!! hold it there...easy does it!!!
I would still say 1db more on the lead vox!!!!
you have warmed up the vox and tamed the mudd in the gtrs well..
now the bass is still...well i cant make out a bass line so well...
perhaps a little more focus in the attack area to accentuate a bass note ..
bring the lines out..?? or just bring it up?? or more gain controll and eq??
or distortion?? bottom??
not sure...

bridge 2..'been here once before'..the 'been here' is out of groove..way late!
solo gtr in instrumental needs a little more fizz..as do the additional gtrs ..
try to watch the mud does not creep back in as the track progresses and guitars build up.You dont need any more weight in the guitars but just a bit more fizz to lift the odd part here or there.
would be great to hear a couple of special fx spinning in on the stops..something that...??
Tom Toms sound crappy..no thunder in them there fills!!
what can be done??

ps..how are you tracking the guitars?
what is your set-up like?

Nice track
Rob

[jeremynothman]

Since when did Soundgarden reform? :P ... well, maybe a little harder than them, but the track definetely brings them to mind.

That sounds awesome!
Only comments ... vocals could come up just a touch... and those little BV things (eg. at 1:20 seem a little lost) - can't actually understand the words there.

Maybe the Guitar solo could also come up just a touch.
Also some wierd pop @ 4:33 and the sudden stop? - I assume they are just bounce anomalies...

Good to hear good music! - Who is it (the band)?

[DP40oz]

Thanks for the feedback guys, im gonna be working on the mix some more today. As far as the toms go i've always had problems getting them to be thunderous. anybody have some suggestions on that, something i can try to make them more cannon like???

Also someone asked about the band. They're called ZO2 www.ZO2.com, they opened for kiss all last summer on there tour. The band is unsigned. They had a full length album out last year and they needed some quick demo's of there new tunes to shop to the industry so thats what this is. They have some interest but the labels keep telling them "We love the music, we love the vibe, but it doesnt fit into radio today", you all know the story. They kick ass live and they are the hardest working band i've ever seen.

[scruffydog]

Need Bigger Tom Toms!!


But seriously..perhaps ask Michael Wagener or try to catch Michael Brauer.

This is men from the boys kind of talk!!

Have a great session.

Scruffydog

[NeoVXR]

the toms are weak, well they are only important in a few breaks.
you could automate them in a sub where you mix everything that sounds like a cannon no matter what other noise there is, just limit the spectrum to the least what is required for the tone. then throw it in, only in these short moments.
reverb send is post-fade, and has to keep its tail.
vocals don't have enough dynamics, so they are flat like a layer, while the band is pumping below. multing and automation could help..
perhaps on the bus, less compressor and more limiter does the trick (but the limiter sounds not too good in the mp3), or changing knee characteristics can improve it.
(only guessing )

did I say the band is great ? thumbsup

[NeoVXR]

here is something about the dynamics!
watch the vocals, the solo, and the finale.
(vol and eq automation, dynamics reprocessed)
I think it's more sexy now!

[Beezoboy]

Ouch that kick hurts. I have a tendancy to make the kick too clicky, but that is crazy. Give it some more bottom and reduce the click by a couple db. Ouch.

Sounds good though otherwise,

Beez

[NeoVXR]

I think for a "quick demo" it is good, I also listened to the album examples on the websites, these are _very_ good!

[AlexLakis]

Howdy! I think the mix sounds great! The bass drum and snare really pound and stand out...almost so much it hurts! The overheads aren't really there for me, not really getting a good image about the kit as a whole...and the toms...maybe ride the faders for the few tom rolls that are in there to bring them out when they need to be. I don't think the vocals are bad at all! A good performance helps so much, doesn't it? I think the band is boss, and the mix is very good overall, the fidelity is all right there before you. Just a few more tweaks, and you've got as good a recording as the band could ask for!

[DP40oz]

Hey guys thanks for your help im going to be posting the final mix soon. I showed the band a more recent mix and they loved it, im still not happy about the vocals but theyre more than happy so i guess my job is done. On my own time though im gonna keep trying to get these vox happenin.

[heltorn]

Seems I cannot download the tune to check it out!

[EminentAndrew]

Rvox!!!!!! Amazing plugin!