Female Talent

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by luctellier

She did covered a Katy Perry song on a YouTube video a while back but I don't think we should go that road. She's a big fan of a Adele and more relax and indie stuff and we thought that working together and blending my personal 'pop touch' to what she likes might be interesting. The second song should be interesting.

And oh, I LOVE Katy Perry.. she has 'the package deal'; the look, the voice, personality and good songs. IMHO, those are the reasons why she's been at the top of the charts. In the pop industry, you have to have it all... let's try not to hi-hack his thread.

p.s.: I love Katy Perry

well im sure you could work out a pretty good blend there

and i love katy perry as well, i've been looking for someone to cover hot n cold with

[olofd]

no, please.. She has to much "Wonderful voice" and to little "Attitude voice"
so don't try to fit her into a katy perry production..

Musicians like this should find their own way.

just mho.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by DavieB

Last year, I posted a video from her and the singer of my band playing acoustic guitar and it was shot with my MacBook Pro's webcam. There was people telling me that she had a beautiful voice but there was too much autotune on her voice.

<sarcasm>
Obviously, what you need to do is to use AutoTune here and there to DE-tune her voice in a few places.

...Then, in the liner notes, soundly bash AutoTune, proclaim it to be "of Satan" and vow NEVER to use it under any circumstances!
</sarcasm>

Man, I hope she's not reading all this (or, if she is, that she has a good sense of humor / thick skin). I'd hate to see self-consciousness ruin her next few vocal performances, and make them sound like they were tracked at gunpoint!

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by olofd

no, please.. She has to much "Wonderful voice" and to little "Attitude voice"
so don't try to fit her into a katy perry production..

Musicians like this should find their own way.

just mho.

I totally agree with you. That's why we continue to write songs until we find the best style to suit her voice. I also want to make sure she really likes what she sing. That's very important to me and that's why I want her to be part of the writing process.

[Mr. Liszt]

Originally Posted by opentune

Agreed! Some uptempo stuff with full power vocals would be great!

Originally Posted by luctellier

That's exactly what the next song is about!

No, no, no. That just isn't the approach imho.

This is not a personal attack but please, Luc, can do you do something with a little more uniquity to it??? Your recording/mixing/mastering work is very good and I bet is is going to get you a lot of jobs engineering but why not go for it all, since you have these writing producing abilities as well and do something unique and interesting to boot? In style and approach and conception I mean. Not just something that sounds like it's commercial. Your bands recordings and the recording of this female artist... yeah the songs are okay, the recordings amazing but the music... the music only imitates. I'm sorry. You do a very good job at writing and making things sound good but it seems like you are chasing people that can do it just a little but better and are at least one step ahead of you. I know what audience/demographic you are going for and I understand that all. I want to hear something more inspired... Something not in submissive imitation of styles in vouge with teenagers. They are much smarter and need something unique. Please don't be upset, Luc. I think you work is really great!! So, could you please make the next song something that sounds amazing, is very interesting with a unique performance BUT it also commercially accessible? Or maybe you could completely skip the whole worry of accessibility and focus on creating this girl into a unique artist first who is quite distinct and then worry about amazing sounds in a few months?

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Mr. Liszt

No, no, no. That just isn't the approach imho.

This is not a personal attack but please, Luc, can do you do something with a little more uniquity to it??? Your recording/mixing/mastering work is very good and I bet is is going to get you a lot of jobs engineering but why not go for it all, since you have these writing producing abilities as well and do something unique and interesting to boot? In style and approach and conception I mean. Not just something that sounds like it's commercial. Your bands recordings and the recording of this female artist... yeah the songs are okay, the recordings amazing but the music... the music only imitates. I'm sorry. You do a very good job at writing and making things sound good but it seems like you are chasing people that can do it just a little but better and are at least one step ahead of you. I know what audience/demographic you are going for and I understand that all. I want to hear something more inspired... Something not in submissive imitation of styles in vouge with teenagers. They are much smarter and need something unique. Please don't be upset, Luc. I think you work is really great!! So, could you please make the next song something that sounds amazing, is very interesting with a unique performance BUT it also commercially accessible? Or maybe you could completely skip the whole worry of accessibility and focus on creating this girl into a unique artist first who is quite distinct and then worry about amazing sounds in a few months?

Huh, could you please wait until your hear that 2nd song before saying it's not the right approach? The second song is 'up tempo', not rock. It's a groovy jazzy kinda song. I'm not going for the commercial teen pop thing at all with this girl. Read my post just above when I said " That's why we continue to write songs until we find the best style to suit her voice. I also want to make sure she really likes what she sing. That's very important to me and that's why I want her to be part of the writing process."

[s34nsm411]

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup freaking amazing dude. girl has an awesome voice also, i might have missed it but did you mention what mic was used on her voice?

my only critique would be to maybe make the piano a little more present

oh and how did you get that bass sound!? it kills!

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by s34nsm411

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup freaking amazing dude. girl has an awesome voice also, i might have missed it but did you mention what mic was used on her voice?

my only critique would be to maybe make the piano a little more present

oh and how did you get that bass sound!? it kills!

Thanks a lot bro. I used Acoustik Piano and I just bought the Miroslav full package. I may revisit the piano sound later. I used a Neuman TLM103 for her vocal and my SPL TrackOne preamp. She has a very sibilant voice. Even when she talks we noticed that her 'esses' her really loud. We tried to countrol it more during the recording and it kinda worked. I only have a TLM 103 (make or break mic, helps for sibilant vocals, may sound honky OR make the vocals sound warm and add bottom), AKG 414 (doesn't really like that on vocals) and a NT2000 (good for dark vocals but very sibilant). I think I might consider buying a real good one really soon. I really liked a AT4050 (might buy one) but no good for sibilant vocals. Anyone have a good suggestion for sibilant vocals?

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Anyone have a good suggestion for sibilant vocals?

Its worth trying an RE-20.

Its a crap-shoot on female vox (but ya never know).

Waddaya got to lose?

...Nice thing about the RE-20 is that it can be worked close -- and I mean telephone-close (for an intimate feel on the soft parts).

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

Its worth trying an RE-20.

Its a crap-shoot on female vox (but ya never know).

Waddaya got to lose?

...Nice thing about the RE-20 is that it can be worked close -- and I mean telephone-close (for an intimate feel on the soft parts).

Cool thanks! Any other suggestion? I'm really looking for a mic that smooth the sibillance without being too dark or muddy in the low mids (problem that I have with the TLM103).

[opentune]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Any other suggestion? I'm really looking for a mic that smooth the sibillance without being too dark or muddy in the low mids

You should check the Sennheiser MD441 - it should get the job done.

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Cool thanks! Any other suggestion? I'm really looking for a mic that smooth the sibillance without being too dark or muddy in the low mids (problem that I have with the TLM103).

have you tried an sm7b?

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by opentune

You should check the Sennheiser MD441 - it should get the job done.

Stevie Nicks used these live for a while.

Might be just the ticket.

Only bad things about 'em:

1) Proximity effect for days! (Sometimes not a bad thing.)

2) Tendency to "pop" like hell (without a windscreen (the use of which sometimes kills the beauty).

...But, by all means, try it (smoke 'em if ya got 'em.)

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by alehoe

have you tried an sm7b?

Indeed. Another good one to try.

(Notice a trend with the dynamics here?)

...But if ya want to keep the condenser thang happenin', try a Shure SM-81 or a Schoeps.

Come to think of it, ya might try an AKG C-1000 (though, after hearing her voice, I wouldn't expect the C-1000 to win out). Ya never know. (I've had the C-1000 really surprise me before.)

Also, leaving the above aside, if available I'd try the Heil PR40.

[butterfly]

It's hard to explain. It's not intonation issues, it's like if she goes falsetto for a really short amount of time and then goes back to her normal voice. So in recording, this can sound like an artefact or vocal imperfection when not controlled properly OR can make her voice sound really distinctive when done properly. I have a really bad example to explain what I mean; 4 Non Blondes - What's Up.

..........Hey Luc nice song, yeah I agree it's a distinctive quality. It's really just the effect of her going across her break or passagio, the point where the registers go from chest to head, in women it's an octave earlier than with the male voice. in popular music you'll often hear women extend their chest voices higher than is healthy, some get away with it cause they're blessed... think Aretha. She's being careful which is probably wise at her stage in the game, listening to her do the standard on youtube I can hear that it's a colour which she can exploit in this kind of repertoire and style to good effect. Just a bit of time and experimentation to find what works and doesn;t in the stuff you're writing to-gether.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by butterfly

..........Hey Luc nice song, yeah I agree it's a distinctive quality. It's really just the effect of her going across her break or passagio, the point where the registers go from chest to head, in women it's an octave earlier than with the male voice. in popular music you'll often hear women extend their chest voices higher than is healthy, some get away with it cause they're blessed... think Aretha. She's being careful which is probably wise at her stage in the game, listening to her do the standard on youtube I can hear that it's a colour which she can exploit in this kind of repertoire and style to good effect. Just a bit of time and experimentation to find what works and doesn;t in the stuff you're writing to-gether.

Exactly! (Sorta...)

What you folks are hearing is something that is a crucial part of this particular woman's inherent instrument (and an adjunct to her talent).

All traditions of music which embrace the beauty of the female voice exhibit some recognition of this trait:

Irish music is rampant with it, as is much of the Japanese (and some of the African music) traditions.

Aside from the Celtic stuff (including part of the French traditional music), "western music" has only recently warmed to the idea.

[SkunkWorks]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Anyone have a good suggestion for sibilant vocals?

Oktava MK-319... preferably Joly modded

... or the MK-219

[luctellier]

The SM7B was already on my purchase list but I think this mic needs a lot of gain right? The girl sings very low in volume, I'm not sure that would work. I'll check the Sennheiser MD441! Thanks!

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by luctellier

The SM7B was already on my purchase list but I think this mic needs a lot of gain right? The girl sings very low in volume, I'm not sure that would work. I'll check the Sennheiser MD441! Thanks!

just gotta crank the gain to ~60db and get right up to it if you're not too loud

[whistler]

just chiming in re: what 12ax7 and butterfly were saying to agree with them. I'm not primarily a vocalist, or female, but it's an "artifact" that I tend to get when I'm singing softly with a lot of currently popular music. As a baritone there's not a lot of pop music that sits well in my range (more tenor or true bass) so I end up crossing that break a lot. If I'm singing softly and not really thinking about supporting (which might or might not be her problem) my voice tends to catch on some notes. The video kinda makes it look like she's not standing up straight, but that may just be the top she's wearing.

As people have said, and I'm sure you know, it's something that can be played with, exaggerated, whatever for effect and that's something you hear plenty of female jazz and pop artists doing. It can also be really hard on your voice. Hunting down people for her to train with in styles she's interested in could be really worthwhile. It's not the style you're going for, but I've seen enough play blow their voice because they needed to belt/scream and didn't know how to do it properly.

-Tom

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by whistler

just chiming in re: what 12ax7 and butterfly were saying to agree with them.

<snip>

-Tom

Well, I'm not sure which thing I said you agree with, but you should know that someone agreeing with me is not something that I experience very often!

...But be that as it may, as far as "voice coaching" (or whatever we wish to call it), here's what I think is usually the most effective:

When I have a vocalist who is trying to "find their way" like this, I like to have the "technical coaching" take place away from the studio (like with a mic plugged into a little board in somebody's living room). And not even on the same day.

-- Then the next day, go into the studio and instruct the vocalist to "think about the LYRICS" when we record (instead of technical stuff)!

If the technical coaching has been of any real help, what has been learned will still be there, but the FEEL of the vocal will be RIGHT.

...And usually the technical performance will be better anyway if the vocalist's head isn't all wrapped around second-guessing every little attribute.

It is truly amazing how much better a vocal works when the vocalist is thinking about the meaning of the piece, instead of "technical doctrine" of some sort!

[Demian Dee]

Wow i like this song...the singer reminds me a bit avril lavigne, i don't know.