Login / Register
 
Please listen..We need your opinion!
New Reply
Subscribe
MattioliCo
Thread Starter
#1
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #1
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 287

Thread Starter
MattioliCo is offline
Please listen..We need your opinion!

Hey gearslutz,

This is a pre mix of a song (not mastered) my studio partner and I are working on.

It's probably the most complex mix/song we've worked on before and it's also the first song using a hybrid aproach...ITB and OTB processing.

Please gives us your honest opinion!
Any tips, suggestions, criticism, any new ideas of how we could improve the mix or even the sound of a particular instrument/part are fully appreciated

Thank you all!
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 premix - I want you to choose me.mp3 (3.65 MB, 2709 views)
MattioliCo
Thread Starter
#2
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #2
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 287

Thread Starter
MattioliCo is offline
Anybody?
#3
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Turkey
Posts: 1,944
My Recordings/Credits

cooker is offline
You know it makes a world of difference when a limiter/compressor is applyed

Einsteins law: vocal needs a deesser but to taim its very highs not for the "S"s. The chorus is too thin and would be better if it had impact (but thats the compressor?).

I want you to choose me: My right ear gets tired when listening the whole song couse the highats position.

Overall nice job tough...
MattioliCo
Thread Starter
#4
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #4
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 287

Thread Starter
MattioliCo is offline
Hey cooker, thanks a lot for the review!

The hi-hat has been a problem we detected as well and will definitely work on.


Ps: We decided to remove "Eisntein's Law" from the post. Although that song is gonna be in the same album, its pre mix was done months ago and it is in a lower stage than "I want you to choose me". It will be better to have a review focused in one song anyway!
Pat
#5
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #5
Pat
Gear addict
 
Pat's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 429

Pat is offline
Sorry to say, but nothing fits in this song.
#6
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #6
Gear interested
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28

marcher5877 is offline
Pat, what do you mean? I am not sure I understand what you mean by "fit" do you mean nothing fits in the eq spectrum or that nothing fits as in the words don't fit with the music, the guitars dont fit with the drums, the bass doesnt fit with the drums?

My opinion: I think some compression is needed on the vocals and the overall song. Its also not very dynamic, the song starts loud and although it doesnt get louder, it gets more and more. Does that make sense? Compression on different parts at different levels- perhaps that might give the track more dynamics.


The problem with asking for opinions on a site like this is that no one is going to say "great song, its perfect!" Someone can put up "Imagine" and someone else will say "You should have mic'd the piano differently...." So take everything with a healthy grain of salt. Its a good song, and you if you take my advice it might be better, it might not.
MattioliCo
Thread Starter
#7
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #7
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 287

Thread Starter
MattioliCo is offline
Thanks for the help Marcher, great points!
We're really interested in getting some truthful opinions.

The intention of putting a song in here is to get criticism in the mix and help/tips to make it sound better in terms of sound, production, arrangement..so whoever feels like writing, don't be shy


I'm curious to get a more elaborated opinion from you Pat if you don't mind.
#8
29th July 2009
Old 29th July 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Turkey
Posts: 1,944
My Recordings/Credits

cooker is offline
He might be mentioning the general panning/room-placement desigions though I'd also like to hear his detailed comments (thats the thing I like in this forum, not only the one who posts gets the benefit of getting something)

I agree with marcher5877 comment about this part of the forum by the way. Its best to comment a song in-itself rather than trying it to fit what we like for our vision (I think I too may have done mistakes about this in the past).

I think you'll get better reviews if you post the pure mix. The limiters settings are truly ruining the song and making it actually harder to comment (at least for me).
#9
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
once a roadie's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: VT
Posts: 1,044

once a roadie is offline
The Drums sound like a drum machine, which is not something I like for this style...
MattioliCo
Thread Starter
#10
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #10
Gear maniac
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 287

Thread Starter
MattioliCo is offline
Again guys, thanks a lot for the reviews!

- Out of all the 10 songs that are going to be in the album, this one was picked first since it had the worst structure and we knew it was going to take more work to get it done (definitely not my favorite)!
I totally agree with "Sounds Great", it's hard to detect where the verse ends and the chorus starts (if there is one ). It was harder for us to create dynamics as well since it's structure is odd but we will work on it.

- Drums - We actually recorded live drums but the kick/snare/toms were played separated from cymbals. That was a first and last time I ever do that..somebody suggested it for a better mix situation but it totally destroyed the feel and interpretation for me...sounds too mechanic to me!
Botton line, I think we might re record the drums...and yes, definitely fixing the annoying hi-hat (sound and position)

- We will also re think the panning and amount of compression/limiting!
Anybody care to share settings for drum buss, mix buss?
The only stereo comps we have are Drawmer 1968 (used in the mix buss) Chameleon Labs 7720 (used in the drum buss) and a DBX 162. We might get a API 2500 in a month or so.

Basically, I think we will fix the problems and will make it sound better technically.

It's great to hear all the reviews here and on my inbox. It shows that everybody is pointing out things that were also annoying us...it helps us to evolve and improve our music.
#11
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #11
Gear Head
 
Pedro Lobo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Porto
Posts: 46

Pedro Lobo is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattioliCo View Post
Again guys, thanks a lot for the reviews!

- Out of all the 10 songs that are going to be in the album, this one was picked first since it had the worst structure and we knew it was going to take more work to get it done (definitely not my favorite)!
I totally agree with "Sounds Great", it's hard to detect where the verse ends and the chorus starts (if there is one ). It was harder for us to create dynamics as well since it's structure is odd but we will work on it.

- Drums - We actually recorded live drums but the kick/snare/toms were played separated from cymbals. That was a first and last time I ever do that..somebody suggested it for a better mix situation but it totally destroyed the feel and interpretation for me...sounds too mechanic to me!
Botton line, I think we might re record the drums...and yes, definitely fixing the annoying hi-hat (sound and position)

- We will also re think the panning and amount of compression/limiting!
Anybody care to share settings for drum buss, mix buss?
The only stereo comps we have are Drawmer 1968 (used in the mix buss) Chameleon Labs 7720 (used in the drum buss) and a DBX 162. We might get a API 2500 in a month or so.

Basically, I think we will fix the problems and will make it sound better technically.

It's great to hear all the reviews here and on my inbox. It shows that everybody is pointing out things that were also annoying us...it helps us to evolve and improve our music.
Hi Mattiolico.
First of all it´s a good song, but I think you could easily improve on the structure. There ARE structure problems and It´s like it´s over before it even begun. It just ends too soon.
Also, it´s kind of funny, the verse is stronger than the chorus.
Sonically I think the main problem are the drums. The Snare and BD sounds like an early nineties Drum machine and they are sonically in a different place than the rest of the mix, I think you can easily correct that and put the drums where they belong. (perhaps a different rev? centered snr? that´s just a matter of taste though)
The Main vocal is in the right place but those delays on the first Verse just don´t work.. they just add confusion (wrong time setting?too loud?) to a part of the song where you just DON`T WANT confusion, you want the listener´s attention to be on the main vocals and on the lyrics and those delays are distracting.
Congratulations on the rest, very good mixing!
P
__________________
"Before you play two notes learn how to play one note - and don't play one note unless you've got a reason to play it." - Mark Hollis (1998)
Pat
#12
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #12
Pat
Gear addict
 
Pat's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 429

Pat is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcher5877 View Post

My opinion: I think some compression is needed on the vocals and the overall song.
Compression will not make a song better.
#13
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #13
Gear interested
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28

marcher5877 is offline
Isnt it amazing what taking a sentence out of context can do?
Compression does not make a song better, but maybe some of my other pieces of advice might give the OP the answer he is looking for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcher5877 View Post

I think some compression is needed on the vocals and the overall song. Its also not very dynamic, the song starts loud and although it doesnt get louder, it gets more and more. Does that make sense? Compression on different parts at different levels- perhaps that might give the track more dynamics.
#14
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #14
Gear addict
 
andyspiller's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: England
Posts: 495

Send a message via Skype™ to andyspiller
andyspiller is offline
Hi there

Just a couple of observations - I would be inclined to send the Hats and Cymbals to the same ambience as the Kick and Snare and maybe pan a little more centrewards.

The immediate thing I noticed was timing - there appears to be some rushing ahead of the beat somewhere - I would be inclined to strip the rythm section right back and really tighten it up, sometimes the bass feels like it's a tiny bit ahead, sometimes the guitar seems behind. I would differentiate between guitar tones a bit more maybe by re-amping of processing differently.

I don't have a problem with the structure but maybe a wetter or more compressed Chorus will give a different dynamic and lift it a bit

Nice
__________________
Mangling Muzak since 1862
#15
30th July 2009
Old 30th July 2009
  #15
Gear maniac
 
imixrecords's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: America
Posts: 216

imixrecords is offline
Speaking just on the mix: Not a bad start. Sounds a bit flat (lacking dynamics) and a bit narrow (stereo image), but overall not bad.
#16
31st July 2009
Old 31st July 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Turkey
Posts: 1,944
My Recordings/Credits

cooker is offline
Hey MattioliCo, I didn't tend to get detailed to confuse you (you know, sometimes this can effect the engineer in a negative way too) but seems you prefer opinions as much as possible.

About using a limiter: the most common mistake with using a limiter is to go insane with the compression. By insane I mean most mastering engineers agree that more than 2-3 db of reduction is too much for any mix.

Before a limiter you can compress peaks or mix, use hard clipper plug-in or clip converters if you have high-end. Also using 1 limiter isn't a rule, sometimes lightly used 2 limiters get better results. As you compress, hear whats damaged (there's always a damage somewhere) or changed and try to fix it-if you can't fix it then you reached your amounth of loudness. Also what I wrote here is truly harder to do than it seems. So its never a mistake to get you mixes mastered professionally (and its not that expensive, make a search).

About mix balance: There are arangement issue's thats for sure. But also what I feel is when the song is mixed, every sound was focused to sound best by itself but the interaction between them was missed.

Its hard for me to give advices about this without trying some stuff in the mix but try focusing on placement (in a 3d way). I mean not always every instrument must sound great when played alone. You can kill the highs, duplicate tracks, send more reverb etc. to the individual insturments in different amounths to make them sound in the same structure (but still keep all the individual sound sources being heard).

I know its going to take a lot of time to do that but if it helps, set a transparent compressor (with no agressive settings) to the mix buss and then start working-you'll acheve depth easyer that way when the compressor is bypassed (but I can't say this can work for everyone).

Again, seems the arangement won't be helpful to you so don't go hard on yourself exept for the limiter setting, the mix is to me is already acceptable in many ways...good luck!
#17
31st July 2009
Old 31st July 2009
  #17
Gear addict
 
ScottTunes's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Left Coast (El Aye)
Posts: 410

ScottTunes is offline
Well, you must be doing something right - some dislike and some like it.

Personally, I like it. I think you've got a good start here... Keep at it until you're satisfied... No one else can tell you how you like it. I think its part of the fun to find the songs "sweet spot," and finish it accordingly.

Have fun!
#18
31st July 2009
Old 31st July 2009
  #18
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 22,505
My Recordings/Credits

Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Lobo View Post
Hi Mattiolico.
First of all it´s a good song, but I think you could easily improve on the structure. There ARE structure problems and It´s like it´s over before it even begun. It just ends too soon.
Also, it´s kind of funny, the verse is stronger than the chorus.
Sonically I think the main problem are the drums. The Snare and BD sounds like an early nineties Drum machine and they are sonically in a different place than the rest of the mix, I think you can easily correct that and put the drums where they belong. (perhaps a different rev? centered snr? that´s just a matter of taste though)
The Main vocal is in the right place but those delays on the first Verse just don´t work.. they just add confusion (wrong time setting?too loud?) to a part of the song where you just DON`T WANT confusion, you want the listener´s attention to be on the main vocals and on the lyrics and those delays are distracting.
Congratulations on the rest, very good mixing!
P
Definitely a +1 on the vocal delays - the movement in them is too distracting. I think you've had enough comments on the overdubbed cymbals - but this can work IF you approach it properly - did you record just a spot mic for the cymbals, or did you do what makes more sense and to record overheads again plus spot mic? that would put all the drums in a similar space before you get to adding ambiences.

Has no-one mentioned EQ yet? for my tastes, there's far too much lo-mid mud going on...this sort of polished rock with tech influences needs much less weight in the guitars and vocal. Reverbs are too dark as well.

It actually to me sounds much better (ie more like a finished record) on my little sony walkman speakers than it does on the studio monitors. Which I guess is more important in a way.

After the first "swoosh" effect (into the 2nd vs?) it's a bit of a let down - something's missing here, it's neither really full nor really stripped out, just kind of somewhere in the middle.

But...I quite like the song, and the ideas are definitely in place.
__________________
Recent Indie credits include:

Jack Robert Hardman (New EP now on sale), Morgan Joanel, and High-Tails.

If I've helped you out, please consider supporting these artists as a favour to me!

Major label credits include Pharrell/Alicia Keys, Ricky Martin (Aus #3), John Legend, Samantha Jade, Di-Rect (Dutch #1), etc
#19
3rd August 2009
Old 3rd August 2009
  #19
Gear interested
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: N.C
Posts: 7

tonyp is offline
I kinda like the song, the only thing I would say, and agree with, is that the dynamics are the same from the beginning to the end. Although I am no expert and I have the same problems mixing with far less going on in a track, sometimes I just sit back and listen, take notes and ask myself where the song is supposed to be higher dynamics vs lower dynamics. Sometimes I go away for days , take two or 3 mixes in the car and try to learn what it is I am trying to accomplish. It's a good song, good performance's all the way around, what is the intent here ? Local sales, national Sales ?

This is a nice beginning to something so it seems....

t
#20
4th August 2009
Old 4th August 2009
  #20
Gear Head
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 59

synthdude is offline
sounds like a mix and song issue I am sorry to say. If the arrangement and song were better it would be easier to critique but I don't get it because t feel like the song is smushed togeter and like parts aren't workign or bretahogn together. You cna do so much in mixing but if you do it mixing it will nt always sound like what you intended if the arrangement and song need more work. As far as mix wise if you do some editing and uctting some extra stuff otu and parts I probably wouldn't mind iit juts soundstoo busy the way uit's presented for the way your mxing it. just my 2 cents

peace
\
chris
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Breathless / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
12
reinvention.of.man / So much gear, so little time!
10
Plove / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
0
Jose Mrochek / So much gear, so little time!
3
johnnyblotter / High end
11

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.