Please Help me! Whats wrong!?!?

[EminentAndrew]

So I know there's too much verb on the vocals, Levels are off and there a lot of dirty high in the symbols. Why does this sound muddy? What else is wrong? I have to go back and mix in a couple days and I really need to know why this sounds like shit. My Pre Mix was flawless. Bad Compressors?? Please HELP ME!

[ThomasWho]

It sounds great! My guess is you`re a little close to the material , having worked on it for a while (and heard your own premix a zillion times).


Sounds good to me , I don`t think there`s too much reverb on the vocals and the cymbals sound nice.

Just hang back and let your engineer do his thing.

Only my opinion of course,

Thomas

[MarkRB]

Sounds pretty clean to me, not a bad mix either. Certainly not "shit" to my ears.

Maybe you are just hearing alot of HF boosting EQ? That can take some getting used to after listening to the song with very little EQ.
If anything it could be a smidge more aggressive for me. more distortion, compression and weight.
Maybe post your pre-mix?

I am getting old and deaf mind, so pinch of salt...

[Dean Roddey]

Sounds good to me, also. If it sounds good on these crappy speakers in the bedroom, then it's probably a good mix. It's a little light on the low end, but that's probably as designed for this genre. Maybe it's just too low for these speakers but that would probably also mean it's not tight enough for this type of song, so I'm guessing not.

Some monsterous guitar tones in there. The double kick stuff I have to say sounds inhumanly tight and consistent, which gives it a bit of an overly mechanised feel.

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by MarkRB

Sounds pretty clean to me, not a bad mix either. Certainly
If anything it could be a smidge more aggressive for me. more distortion, compression and weight.

It doesn't sound muddy to you? I can't hear each individual part cleanly. It's as if the lead tone is Identical to the rhythm? And the rhythm doesn't have a clean low cut no?

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Sounds good to me, also. If it sounds good on these inhumanly tight and consistent, which gives it a bit of an overly mechanised feel.

Thats what I was going for.

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by EminentAndrew

It doesn't sound muddy to you? I can't hear each individual part cleanly.

I guess that's why we call it a mix, no? Blending it all together.
All the parts seem to be doing their job and sounding good.

Doesn't sound muddy at all to me, actually not enough in the lo-mids for my taste. If you lose any more lo-mid (mud area) it will sound too thin and a bit lame.

Maybe you need to clarify what you think the problem is. Post your mix so we can understand what you think it is lacking.

I think Thomas Who is right, that you could be a bit too close to it to be totally objective.

Trust us, it sounds good!!

[Old Dog]

Overall I think it's a good mix. Clean... maybe too clean... and maybe that's what's bothering you. My opinion is it's lacking "meat." Needs a little more growl and low-mids. The bass and rhythm guitars might just need to come up a pinch and/or slightly less scooped.

Stylistically, I think the vocal (lead and especially background) is a smidge too hot, and if you pull them down everything might just sound a tad warmer and "meatier." Just some thoughts on one listen through. I do think it sounds good though and nothing to be disappointed about.

[Dean Roddey]

Yeh, I started to say the same above. Maybe it's that it's too mixed, not that it's not mixed enough :-) But I didn't because I'm always arguing for rougher sounding stuff, and it probably sounds like a rationalization for my own lack of slickness or something. It's just so easy these days to fix everything until it has no rough edges to get a grip on.

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by MarkRB

I think Thomas Who is right, that you could be a bit too close to it to be totally objective.

NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. This is my baby. My average sleep a night is around 4 hours for the last 8 months tracking and editing this. My hard drive crashed and I had only the drums backed up so I had to do it ALL AGAIN! This is my baby and I'm a perfectionist. I literally haven't done anything more exiting than drink a couple beers while tracking in 8 months. Personally and maybe this is just because its my music but I feel like the mix isn't as proffessional as the music. To me it sounds like an amateur mix. Its very comforting to know you great minds disagree but it still seems muddy in my eyes. You think a pro hardware mastering job will really help. Or should I just let this guy master it on his computer?

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Yeh, I started to say the same above. Maybe it's that it's too mixed, not that it's not mixed enough :-) But I didn't because I'm always arguing for rougher sounding stuff, and it probably sounds like a rationalization for my own lack of slickness or something. It's just so easy these days to fix everything until it has no rough edges to get a grip on.

Please elaborate. I feel like your on the right track.

[Dean Roddey]

It's a hard thing to quantify really. But with the ability to fix all timing issues and punch in the smallest mistakes and EQ things very heavily and compress everything to the point that nothing ever pokes its head up, it just seems to me that it looses something.

Maybe that's not so applicable to your genre. Most metal type stuff seems to be very precise and highly compressed, and the super-high gain guitars are already very compressed naturally to begin with. So maybe it's what's expected for the folks you are catering too, I dunno.

I do think that the comment above that perhaps, in the quest for separation and removal of mud, a little too much of the body of it has been removed, so that it's a little hollowed out maybe.

Maybe it's your mixing setup. Is your room really well treated and have you taken the time to measure it and set up your listening position correctly for optimal bass response? If not, then perhaps the reason it sounds good to us, even scooped out, but muddy to you, is that you have some significant bass response issues in your room, and you are trying to EQ these peaks out, and effectively removing too much.

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by EminentAndrew

You think a pro hardware mastering job will really help. Or should I just let this guy master it on his computer?

Yeah, a bit of grit, growl and sparkle from a decent ME will do wonders, and hardware often helps.
There are loads of amazing ME's on this board. Check out the Mastering forum.
It helps if you know exactly what you want. Loud? Dynamic? Fat? etc, etc.. Do you have a sound or record you want to compare too?

It's really hard to take a step back from something you've been working on for years, I know.

BTW: LOL at the great minds comment

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Maybe it's your mixing setup. Is your room really well treated and have you taken the time to measure it and set up your listening position correctly for optimal bass response? If not, then perhaps the reason it sounds good to us, even scooped out, but muddy to you, is that you have some significant bass response issues in your room, and you are trying to EQ these peaks out, and effectively removing too much.

I've heard it in 3 different studios. Still not the right mix. But Thank you for elaborating. I completely agree with you. It's just like a fad it will be looked down upon in a couple years. Just like removing breaths. lol. (I still do it)

[steveschizoid]

This mix does not sound muddy. I think the cymbals sound overly small. This is a very tight song, and a very tight mix. Any adjustments need to be small ones. What you may be missing may have more to do with mic preamps during tracking, and the lack of outboard gear used during mixing (as perhaps well as tracking). I do agree that it sounds a little amateur, but the balance (aside from my personal opinion that the cymbals are too far back - but I've heard records in this genre mixed with tiny cymbals, so this is just my preference) is near perfect. The reverb level is fine, but it sounds like a plug in. If you want to ftp me some tracks (perhaps export a mix of whatever is going through the software send to the reverb plug in), I could apply a Bricasti sound to it, and it might help somewhat. It really is an awesome little box.

I let those breaths live large myself!

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

What you may be missing may have more to do with mic preamps during tracking, and the lack of outboard gear used during mixing (as perhaps well as tracking). I do agree that it sounds a little amateur

I would agree whole heartedly but I spent 3 days on mic position (2 SM57's [NO PHASE] and record vocals through a Neumann M147. My preamp was not the best I'll give you that, Just an ART Pro Channel. But the guitars and Vocals sounded way brighter before the mix. I wish I could export something for you guys. It sounds like the Mixer scooped out all the mids. I really think thats a big reason why it sounds hollow. Am I wrong?

[asmonica]

hey man i think it sounds great! its very tight and im not hearing the muddines either. if i had to say anything, its that the kick sounds a little like there is a bag of rice between the beater and the head, but maybe thats a stylistic thing, not bad just the only thing to me that sticks out cause of how much you hear the kick. everything else is real united though, in my opinion. good work man!

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by asmonica

hey man i think it sounds great! its very tight and im not hearing the muddines either. if i had to say anything, its that the kick sounds a little like there is a bag of rice between the beater and the head, but maybe thats a stylistic thing, not bad just the only thing to me that sticks out cause of how much you hear the kick. everything else is real united though, in my opinion. good work man!

Thank you! My drummer Puts a metal plate on his kick drum (Vinnie Paul Technique).
I haven't heard one really bad response and I really need some help. Don't the guitars sound Noisy and thin. There's no Brightness on the Album. Do you guys think it will brighten up in the mastering process?

[beingmf]

? ? ? ? ?

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by EminentAndrew

So I know there's too much verb on the vocals, Levels are off and there a lot of dirty high in the symbols. Why does this sound muddy? What else is wrong? I have to go back and mix in a couple days and I really need to know why this sounds like shit. My Pre Mix was flawless. Bad Compressors?? Please HELP ME!

i wouldnt call it shit, and not muddy, maybe a little lack of definition but not muddy.

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by Peacock

Hi,

The mix is balanced except for some tom hits which have some panning and level problems.

The overall sound is small and not open. This may be helped by a very good mastering engineer. I suspect over compression as being your enemy here.

From a direct songwriting point of view. This type of style and material has already been covered by at least 5 bands. You have to be original and less in line with other already well known groups to really be heard. Also you need some change in melody between differing sections of the song to maintain attention of the listener. Ie change the melody and phrasing (timing) in different sections. Verse different from chorus and both different than the bridge etc, etc.

You seem to be a fine musician and if you find your niche your music could go from good to great. IMO. I enjoyed the listen. Thanks for sharing your music.

I can agree with the over compression. But "This type of style and material has already been covered by at least 5 bands". REALLY? I'm not trying to get defensive here but I'd like to know what music you've heard that sounds anything like this. Maybe I put the wrong song up for you. I think If ANYTHING its original. Call it terribly structured, noisy, show off, not song written. But not Original? I put another song up just to make sure. This one needs a lot of work. Specifically Auto-tuning, and copy pasting harmonies. I'm very curious to know how this is not original. I'm always open to new perspectives. Thank you.

[EminentAndrew]

Bump!

[Shure]

Sounds fantastic to me dude...drums could be harder and louder though, that's the only thing really, but your vocals and guitar imo are great! Good work bro!

[Shure]

Oh yeah, and it should definitely brighten up with mastering, as long as you get someone very good to do it.

Cheers.

[cooker]

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Got bored and said why not its usually easyer to judge a mix by the master, though don't take it as a true reference (didn't get very detailed)-just for giving an idea.

[EminentAndrew]

Originally Posted by cooker

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Got bored and said why not its usually easyer to judge a mix by the master, though don't take it as a true reference (didn't get very detailed)-just for giving an idea.

WOW. That puts my mind to ease. Great job for a reference. This is the brightness I was thinking of. With some more midrange in the guitar I think I'm gonna be very happy. Thank you cooker. Much appreciated.

[dasoundjunkie]

Just curious, what monitors are you using? They might be misleading you, I really feel it's a solid mix, maybe for the style of music (someone else also said this) the vocals are a bit loud. The other thing is ( and this is just a personal preference) that it's maybe a bit light on the low end. That being said Pantera records are very lean sounding but they STILL kick all kinds of ass. Based on personal experience I would recommend that you try mastering it with mastering engineer, and fellow Gearslut Brian Lucey.(Magic Garden Mastering) He has ALWAYS done a fantastic job with my stuff and I have no doubt he'll take your material to the place you want it to be.
Honestly man, good job!

[JSG]

Quit piss'in all over yourself man, you've done an exceptional job tracking and mixing. And the talent? Amazing to me, congrats!!!