ROCK MIX ITB (Nickelback / Theory of a deadman / Burn Halo)

[ssl_ambition]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

he doesn't need hardware

...during mixing. a lot has to do with the recording as you know.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

...during mixing. a lot has to do with the recording as you know.

ehe I know, I know... I was being sarcastic...

[seawell]

Sounds great! Do you ever sum your mixes through the Midas Venice?

[JB872]

Originally Posted by luctellier

I only use my own samples (from the drummer's kit). I do master my own stuff using Pultecs, Waves SSL Comp, Waves API 2500.. it really depends. But since I master my own stuff, most of the time I fix it directly in the mix.

A little confused here. So after you've printed the mix with the API 2500 and Pultec on the master buss, you mastered the track using the same plugins but with the Waves SSL Comp. OR is the processing you do on the mix buss near the end of the mix what you consider your mastering? Hope that makes sense.

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

In this case should not be "Devil thank SSL"? ...
anyway, If luctellier says "Behringer" I'll kill him!!! Unless he already sold his soul to get those levels without limiters, and he doesn't need hardware

Wanna hear something funny? I do have a Behringer Multicom Pro-XL MDX4600 in my rack. I first put it there because there was an empty space and I wanted to be cool and have tons of things in my rack. Problem is that almost everyone knows that Behringer is not 'cool' and everyone that comes to the studio says 'hey what are you doing with a Behringer piece of gear in your rack?'...

Originally Posted by seawell

Sounds great! Do you ever sum your mixes through the Midas Venice?

Never.

Originally Posted by JB872

A little confused here. So after you've printed the mix with the API 2500 and Pultec on the master buss, you mastered the track using the same plugins but with the Waves SSL Comp. OR is the processing you do on the mix buss near the end of the mix what you consider your mastering? Hope that makes sense.

When I export from Cubase, my mixes are final and mastered. Everything is done in the project. So all the mastering processing is done on the master buss. And 'no', I don't use any limiter.

[xgabrielx]

Luce I think you get most of the so called "comercial volume" out of the waves api 2500.
I can push this baby so hot and it also doesnt clip.
But I always put a L2 behind it in the mastering chain, just to make shure

But I realy like your productions very much!!!
They always sounding amazingly pro and like 30.000$+ ...haha

But one question:

When I use alot of waves hardware emulations in the mastering chain I sometimes hear some little cracking noise. When I turn of the analog switch in the plugins it is gone, but also alot of the color.
Do you also have that?

I was pushing my mix up to -8rms
With the waves SSL-comp
V-series eq
waves Api 2500
L2+ (with only -1dB and -0.3)

cheers man I LOVE ALL OF YOUR DRUMSOUNDS!!!!

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by xgabrielx

Luce I think you get most of the so called "comercial volume" out of the waves api 2500.
I can push this baby so hot and it also doesnt clip.
But I always put a L2 behind it in the mastering chain, just to make shure

But I realy like your productions very much!!!
They always sounding amazingly pro and like 30.000$+ ...haha

But one question:

When I use alot of waves hardware emulations in the mastering chain I sometimes hear some little cracking noise. When I turn of the analog switch in the plugins it is gone, but also alot of the color.
Do you also have that?

I was pushing my mix up to -8rms
With the waves SSL-comp
V-series eq
waves Api 2500
L2+ (with only -1dB and -0.3)

cheers man I LOVE ALL OF YOUR DRUMSOUNDS!!!!

Thanks man!

If it sounds good without the L2, why do you put it on? The analog switch of the API 2500 act also as a soft-clipper. You can push it until a certain point but it starts to crackle if you push it too much. For this mix, I only added 2dB of make-up gain on the API (I was compressing 1 to 2db max on the mix with the API btw).

Anyways, if you want your mixes to sound louder and clear with a lot of punch and dynamic, just buy a Mackie Big Knob. There's a big knob called volume and it can makes your mixes sound incredibly loud without any artefact. You can also find this volume knob on every sound system, even iPod! Wish people will discover what it does one day...

[xgabrielx]

hahahaha....yeah you are right man

I use the brickwall limiter to make shure nothing gonna clip.
Somewhere I read something about inter-sample-peaks, so just use the limiter to avoid them. Not shure if they realy exist^^

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by xgabrielx

hahahaha....yeah you are right man

I use the brickwall limiter to make shure nothing gonna clip.
Somewhere I read something about inter-sample-peaks, so just use the limiter to avoid them. Not shure if they realy exist^^

NOT SHURE. Haha... gearslutz..

[xgabrielx]

ahaha, shit.....I think you´re right

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

No limiters in the Mastering chain? How do you get such "commercial" levels?
Thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by luctellier

I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.

Don't worry! you can kill him!

Just say it!

[camerondye]

Your stuff does always sound fantastic, definitely a credit to ITB mixing. EQ and Compression is a skill you are obviously amazing at.

Any help on direction of getting better at EQ and compression and...

What is a Custom Yamaha Subkick?

Great Job and Thanks,
cam

[CosmeLiccardo]

Damn! I´m so ****ing depressed, I used a MOTU 24-8 for years and Nuendo 2 and I could NEVER get a decent result, I had to change to Pro Tools to see the difference, I´ve heard that Cubase 5 has a much better audio engine, but I´m astonished that you could get this sort of sound with MOTU converters!

[JB872]

When I export from Cubase, my mixes are final and mastered. Everything is done in the project. So all the mastering processing is done on the master buss. And 'no', I don't use any limiter.

I see. So basically your mastering is mix buss compression and eqing at a commercial level, is it not?

[dodgeaspen]

Has a good open sound.

[dafe]

Open sound? Not exactly imho.

Well done following "the books", yes, but..

Lead vox are a bit too pressed (pretentious) the first lines. If not specifically wanted, maybe loosen them up with less compession would help?

Snare is a bit plasticky. Different eq shape could solidify (see foo fighters' first, a bit more natural direct sound).

A bit less pressed to the max, in dynamics, wouldn't hurt, too.

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by dafe

Open sound? Not exactly imho.

No? Ok...

Originally Posted by dafe

Well done following "the books"

Certainely not mixed following the Gearslutz Book.

Originally Posted by dafe

A bit less pressed to the max, in dynamics, wouldn't hurt, too.

I've searched for the Dynamic button on my turbo brickwall limiters but couldn't find it...

Thanks for your input!

[dafe]

It's one step prior to limiting and it's not a button. It's a pot called "ratio".

I for my part did a tiny little expansion @ 500 and some more at 3,2k and above.

But whatever the customer asked for (no pun).

[Mesa4x12er]

I'm an amateur so I'm completely non-biased. I haven't been working at this long enough to be attached to a way of doing things or having expectations. I only know what I think sounds great and what doesn't.

I just spent the last 30 minutes on Luc's myspace page listening to his mixes. I aim to get somewhere even near what I hear in his mixes and it makes my goal seem impossible. That's the best compliment I know how to give. These mixes seem to stand out from the crowd for sure.

It's only a matter of time I suspect before Luc is the guy getting paid $(?)K per song.

Again excellent work. Not just on this one, but every one.

[CosmeLiccardo]

I loved that mix, I agree that it´s a bit pressed in some ways but it´s totally comercial, today´s trends are exactly that. I´m still hoping luc would tell us what he did to get those levels, please?

[planet red]

The mix sounds great listening on laptop speakers. Snare in my opinion is a little too far forward for this kind of band, but it adds a lot of punch and excitement so it makes sense, just a personal preference. For a single its cool but if there was a whole record like this it might get a touch tiring. I always end up mixing drums too upfront and later it starts bothering me. I feel like its an ITB thing. Since ITB compression isn't as solid and you don't have the same type of saturation you end up not having the drums as in place and just turning them up and smashing them down on your mix buss. Its a cool sound but sometimes drums end up too far forward and in some listening environments its a little tiring. For me personally its something I'm trying to work on.

You listen to a CLA or AW mix and the drums are so in your face but not super loud. There's still tons of depth and definition in all the other instruments and the drums are in the mix, not on top, but still totally clear and punchy. With ITB mixes it always seems like you have to mix the drums a little louder to have the same type of clarity, resulting in a mix that doesn't have the same type of depth. It has tons of punch though.

Not knocking the mix at all. I think its great.

As far as hot levels without a limiter its easy.. Just let the mix clip the master fader. As long as the mix is good and the clipping is only taking off the front end of the drums you wont hear the clipping. It'll also even out the drums making every hit more even. It gets nasty if it starts clipping sustained instruments.

Digital limiters are worthless.

[Andreas G]

I think the mix rocks, fits the genre, has a ton punch and power and translates really well.
What more can you wish? To me everything else is just a matter of taste.

Oh, and I listenend in my studio on NS10s, Geithain-mains and headphones.

The snare is loud, yes! And guess what, I like it, because it has a killer tone and on an upper mixing level it's the job of the mixer to highlight the emotional spots or what sound pretty killer and should get a more important role in a mix. That separates an average from a cool one IMO.

The only thing I might have tried is to get more growl and fattness from the bass. I know it's not so easy and a game of inches, as you have to fight with the guitars. But hey it's a cool sounding Stingray :-)

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by planet red

The mix sounds great listening on laptop speakers. Snare in my opinion is a little too far forward for this kind of band, but it adds a lot of punch and excitement so it makes sense, just a personal preference. For a single its cool but if there was a whole record like this it might get a touch tiring. I always end up mixing drums too upfront and later it starts bothering me. I feel like its an ITB thing. Since ITB compression isn't as solid and you don't have the same type of saturation you end up not having the drums as in place and just turning them up and smashing them down on your mix buss. Its a cool sound but sometimes drums end up too far forward and in some listening environments its a little tiring. For me personally its something I'm trying to work on.

You listen to a CLA or AW mix and the drums are so in your face but not super loud. There's still tons of depth and definition in all the other instruments and the drums are in the mix, not on top, but still totally clear and punchy. With ITB mixes it always seems like you have to mix the drums a little louder to have the same type of clarity, resulting in a mix that doesn't have the same type of depth. It has tons of punch though.

Not knocking the mix at all. I think its great.

As far as hot levels without a limiter its easy.. Just let the mix clip the master fader. As long as the mix is good and the clipping is only taking off the front end of the drums you wont hear the clipping. It'll also even out the drums making every hit more even. It gets nasty if it starts clipping sustained instruments.

Digital limiters are worthless.

There you go! I love mixing in the box but I agree that compression is still the one thing that is a lot easier to get right out of the box. Thanks man!

Originally Posted by Andreas G

I think the mix rocks, fits the genre, has a ton punch and power and translates really well.
What more can you wish? To me everything else is just a matter of taste.

Oh, and I listenend in my studio on NS10s, Geithain-mains and headphones.

The snare is loud, yes! And guess what, I like it, because it has a killer tone and on an upper mixing level it's the job of the mixer to highlight the emotional spots or what sound pretty killer and should get a more important role in a mix. That separates an average from a cool one IMO.

The only thing I might have tried is to get more growl and fattness from the bass. I know it's not so easy and a game of inches, as you have to fight with the guitars. But hey it's a cool sounding Stingray :-)

Thanks! The bass player was using his fingers. I never have problem getting more growl from players who use a pick.

Btw, I'm mixing the 2 other songs today and I will post them tonight probably. They 2 are less straight forward than this one.

[luctellier]

The second song is now in the player!

CLICK HERE

[xgabrielx]

Great bass sound!!!
ampeg ???

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by xgabrielx

Great bass sound!!!
ampeg ???

All the gear info is detailed in my first post of this thread:

Ernie Ball Stingray 5
Ampeg SVT Classic
Ampeg 8x10 (Shure Beta 52)
SansAmp RBI
DBX160

Thanks bro!

[JB872]

Originally Posted by luctellier

All the gear info is detailed in my first post of this thread:

Ernie Ball Stingray 5
Ampeg SVT Classic
Ampeg 8x10 (Shure Beta 52)
SansAmp RBI
DBX160

Thanks bro!

Ya, really like the bass sound. I usually have a tough time eqing an ernie ball to sit properly in the mix.

In another thread, I remember you mentioning that you combined the dry bass signal with the amp and sansamp....still doing this? And are you using the waves ssl channel comp for side chain compression and the uad 1176 for controlling the level? btw, thx for being so generous with your techniques. thumbsup

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by JB872

Ya, really like the bass sound. I usually have a tough time eqing an ernie ball to sit properly in the mix.

In another thread, I remember you mentioning that you combined the dry bass signal with the amp and sansamp....still doing this? And are you using the waves ssl channel comp for side chain compression and the uad 1176 for controlling the level? btw, thx for being so generous with your techniques. thumbsup

Thanks! For this band, the bass was pluged into the Sansamp RBI and the dry signal was going in the SVT Classic and the affected signal was going into a DBX 160X with a 4:1 ration reducing about 3-4dB. In the mix I compressed the summed signals with a 1176 (medium attack and fast release) and I made a small cut at 300hz and a LP at 4khz using Cubase 5's EQ. The bass was then side-chained with the kick using Cubase's compressor.

[JB872]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Thanks! For this band, the bass was pluged into the Sansamp RBI and the dry signal was going in the SVT Classic and the affected signal was going into a DBX 160X with a 4:1 ration reducing about 3-4dB. In the mix I compressed the summed signals with a 1176 (medium attack and fast release) and I made a small cut at 300hz and a LP at 4khz using Cubase 5's EQ. The bass was then side-chained with the kick using Cubase's compressor.

So the DBX 160X is on the bass cab mic right?

And tell me if I'm understanding your bass mixing chain correctly (a lot of this is guessing btw).

Bass Sansamp > SSL channel (LP and HP for mids, no compression) > BASS SUB
Bass SVT Mic > SSL channel (add 50Hz, 800Hz, 2K, maybe compression?) > BASS SUB

Two channels are balanced to give you the tone you want at the Bass Sub.

BASS SUB > 1176 (4:1, medium attack, fast release), Cubase EQ (mid cut, lp filter)

Am I close?

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by JB872

So the DBX 160X is on the bass cab mic right?

And tell me if I'm understanding your bass mixing chain correctly (a lot of this is guessing btw).

Bass Sansamp > SSL channel (LP and HP for mids, no compression) > BASS SUB
Bass SVT Mic > SSL channel (add 50Hz, 800Hz, 2K, maybe compression?) > BASS SUB

Two channels are balanced to give you the tone you want at the Bass Sub.

BASS SUB > 1176 (4:1, medium attack, fast release), Cubase EQ (mid cut, lp filter)

Am I close?

Hum no.

Bass SansAmp Affected DI-> DBX 160X (during tracking) -> NO EQ / NO COMPRESSION -> BASS SUBMIX
Bass Cab Mic -> NO EQ / NO COMPRESSION -> BASS-SUBMIX

BASS-SUBMIX -> 1176, Cubase EQ (mid cut, LP filter), Sidechain (ducking compressor) -> MASTER

Please note that I do set the sound on the SansAmp and the Amp so that it will sounds exactly as I want in the mix. Then in the box, it's just a matter of controlling the volume / dynamic and surgical EQ if needed. The most important is the player and the bass. I could have put someone else on the same setup and it would have sound dramatically different.