Pop-punk mix...advice please?

[borderline3]

I'm pretty new on the forum and this is my first time posting a mix so feel free to tear it up!

guitars- ESP Eclipse- Mesa Single Recto FX LOOP Out- Firepod- Voxengo curve EQ- Impulses. panned L82 and R90

bass- direct into firepod. impulses for cab emulation.

drums- drumagog on the kick and snare. waves ssl channel after the drumagog.
sm57s on the toms.
2 large diaphragm condensers for the OHs panned 100% L and R.

i'm monitoring on mackie hr5s and sennheiser hd280pro headphones.
-no vocals yet, tracking them today.

Something just doesn't sound right in all the full band mixes i've done up to this point, so any constructive criticism/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[borderline3]

Oh, I forgot to mention...Waves L3 on the mix buss for loudness purposes

[equallyscrewed]

Originally Posted by borderline3

Oh, I forgot to mention...Waves L3 on the mix buss for loudness purposes

Thats always worrying...

The mix doesnt really sound as if its played on real instruments in a real room. The bass guitar's taking over a bit.

I didnt read what you said the kit was done with but straight off the bat i knew it was drumagog-ed. The kik and snare samples dont really fit in with the song IMHO and the kik is far too prominant.

The guitars need a lot more energy, somethings lost in this. It might be all the compression and digital "cleaning up" i can hear.

I think your going for the kind of NFG newer recordings, am i right?

xcx

[borderline3]

yeah somewhat of a new found glory sort of sound. Four Year Strong is really the type of sound we were aiming for, minus the breakdowns.

EDIT: I posted a new mix where I took down the bass and eq'ed somethings differently

[equallyscrewed]

hey man, sorry i didnt get back sooner...had to go out n do a gig.

mix is sounding better. Kik is still sounding a bit too drumagoggy. that is, it sticks out a mile from the rest of the kit as being an obvious sample. Thats the biggest problem of the track i think. Stick up a version when you've got vocals laid down. This will give you a better idea of how everything should glue together.

Did you eq the guitars differently here? theres a lot of string scratching coming through (the fingertips of the guitarist sliding across frets).

Your getting there tho dude

xcx

[borderline3]

thanks man! yeah the guitars are eqed a little different here, I think I like the way it sounds like this more, but i'm gunna try to do something about the finger scratches...hopefully i won't have to track again!
i'll get a mix with vocals up as soon as I can, and i'm gunna mess with the kick a little more maybe bring some top-end off to make it more subtle sounding. thanks again for the input!

[equallyscrewed]

No problem man, I'm looking foward to hearing it.

xcx

[borderline3]

mix with rough vocals posted. I think we still have to go back and do some doubles, harmonies, and such. Let me know what you think!

[equallyscrewed]

Its getting there.

Is re tracking vocals an option? from a production point of view id have the singer belt out the lyrics rather than just sing. Thats just me tho. For this style of music the singer needs to have a load of conviction to his/her voice to convey the emotion in the song. When I'm tracking vocals for this kind of song I'm not happy till theyre nearly crying.

Some doubling and harmonies (if they can do it without auto tuning too much) could really benifit it too. and a bit more reverb too.

Like i said, this is just my opinions and what i would do if i was in charge of it.

xcx

[borderline3]

Retracking is totally an option. As a matter of fact we are most likely going to retrack as the singer was had something of a cold the day we needed to do these vocals, so we'll probably be going back to do them over again asap. How do the guitars sound? I feel as though they may be a bit muddy. Any thoughts?

[equallyscrewed]

Cool, I'd go for it then. Get him to put his heart and soul into it. Singing's just like acting if you ask me. Even if you have to record line by line, the vocals are what people will pay attention to first. Thats what they'll be amazed at.

Yea, the guitars could use a little something extra. Some more dynamics and power behind them wouldnt hurt either, bring them up a bit.

Maybe Double tracking them through amps with more highs? or just work at them with EQ? aim for low mid/ low area.

Sorry if im not making sense, its been a long day

xcx

[borderline3]

Making total sense in my mind man haha. I'm thinking about possibly adding a third center guitar track, with a little more gain, to fill things in a bit.
As for the vocals, I'll get the singer motivated. Hopefully he'll be over the cold by then thumbsup
Thanks again for everything man.

--Jack

[SurveillanceP]

most of this mix is quite good in my opinion. Vocals are the problem.

The problem is they are standing apart from the music. Despite genre conventions, I think they need to be gelled into the track. You don't need a vocal up version!! (not sure what version I'm listening to, just downloaded the top link.)

Sink the vocals back in 2-3 dB, add early reflections or something, add maybe a main vocal dub underneath. Unnuke the vocal compressor settings and try using automation first, then add just a little comp.

The drums need to breathe more. Genres like this share a penchant for nuking drums (for good reason: guitar size) and just keeping mostly the clickey placeholders, but in my opinion they would be more powerful if you let them breathe more.

[memphisindie]

That vocal needs to be re-recorded properly, and the artist needs coaching. BAD.

[borderline3]

i'll try backing off the compressor on the drum bus , and the vocals as well. we are most likely going to add in a few doubles that would be mixed quieter under the lead vocal...is that what you were referring to under the main vocal line?

Quote:
"That vocal needs to be re-recorded properly, and the artist needs coaching. BAD."

Yeah, we are going to go back and retrack the vocals because the singer had a pretty bad cold last week. as for coaching i assume you mean vocal coaching? he usually has pretty good technique with breathing and projection, but with being sick he really should not have been singing lol.

Thanks for the advice everybody!