Whats wrong with this mix? Opinions needed!

[dannycurtean@yah]

What is this song missing?

I feel that its warm, its gluey and together but for some reason it just doesnt have something Ive been trying to give it. Im looking for expert critique on all the elements. Sound wise its just not as satisfying as i'd like it to be. Ive done 4 different mixes and each has been better then the last, but even this one is just not there.

[matskull]

I'm no expert but to me the only thing that I would fix if the hi-hat.

I feel like it's too hard panned.
That's just my opinion though, it sounds good.

[TonyD]

Nice tune!

The things that immediately spring out at me are that there are tuning issues, it's a little hard and 'middley' and everything's fighting for attention.

The tuning issue is especially prevalent at around 0:52s through the end of the section. Sounds like the brass is clashing a bit with everything else.

The entire mix for me is a touch hard in the midrange, and I'd be pulling bits out at maybe 400-750Hz as a broad place to start.

Also, maybe each element is a little compressed; it's very busy and each element is screaming "listen to me! Listen to meee!" backing off compression on a few elements and pushing them back in the mix may well help. The OTT compression is especially prevalent on the last 'cha-cha-cha' part.

Hope my £.02 helps!

[dannycurtean@yah]

Originally Posted by TonyD

Nice tune!

The things that immediately spring out at me are that there are tuning issues, it's a little hard and 'middley' and everything's fighting for attention.

The tuning issue is especially prevalent at around 0:52s through the end of the section. Sounds like the brass is clashing a bit with everything else.

The entire mix for me is a touch hard in the midrange, and I'd be pulling bits out at maybe 400-750Hz as a broad place to start.

Also, maybe each element is a little compressed; it's very busy and each element is screaming "listen to me! Listen to meee!" backing off compression on a few elements and pushing them back in the mix may well help. The OTT compression is especially prevalent on the last 'cha-cha-cha' part.

Hope my £.02 helps!

Good advise. Could you elaborate further on this?

[ejsongs]

just took a listen on my laptop but i can hear that there is too much information fighting in the mids. i think the 450-750 range is correct. other than the pitch issues there are also some balancing things happening as far as level, depth and placement. mixes need to be 3d. use of verbs and delays and stereo field placement help create that. last two things is that the high hat is a little too hot and the frequencies on the bass are too high for my taste. i think that to lose some of the upper frequencies on the bass would be a start will to create more space for everything else.

basically i'm just repeating what tony d said i guess.

just my opinion for listening on a laptop...

good luck

[dannycurtean@yah]

Made some changes. I just cant seem to get this stubborn bass where I want it. Its just too harsh and no fat lowend at all.

[RKrizman]

Can you copy and paste to fix the out of tune trumpet in verse 2? Also, I'd warm up the trumpet and set it back with a bit of verb and less volume so it seems more like part of the ensemble. What's doubling the trumpet? It's giving it a harsh edge. I'd also narrow the drum image, and don't hype the eq so much. Sounds like you're pushing a lot of the same midrange frequencies. Is the piano thrashing around too much in the middle? I don't know. I think you need to go in there and whack the bush a bit.

-R

[u b k]

this is a great song, now vibe this puppy up! basically, it either needs a lot more dirt, or a lot more air.

i disagree that it's glued; there's too much of the wrong kind of compression and limiting, and the space is unconvincing. either go wide open and let it breathe, or go bandpassed and crunchy/dirty, like 60's crunchy/dirty. i'm leaning towards the latter, but the former could be gorgeous.

there's not enough of the right kind of reverb. either more big room, or more old plate, or both.

balances are static and unflattering, the front-to-back choices are unnatural and things don't move around enough. it doesn't have the push-pull of a live band playing a dynamic piece, it has he feel of a multi-tracked recording being mixed with small fader movements. if you had avantones you'd hear this immediately.

i think the key is to be braver, use bigger swaths of color and texture, and really get those faders moving, let the band's bigness come thru.

go to itunes and listen to a track, any track, by the menahan street band, that'll give you plenty of fodder for the dirty route. if you need ideas on how to sound big and clean, listen to aaron neville's recent recording of summertime... stunning, and wide open.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.

[Deuce 225]

You gotten some great feedback from the Slutz on this thread and I agree it's a cool tune. This is a small thing but it bugs me, overall the tune is pretty organic sounding, with the exception of the high hat. Is it a sample ? If so you may want to re-amp it and record it with a nice ribbon mic if you have one. If it's not a sample, I'd definitely try a different mic and maybe different hats if you have them. I just find the high-hat brittle and harsh compared to the vibe of the rest of the song.

With Respect,

Tim Cochran

[TacosWhenTwisted]

Some good advice here already. Listened to the first version, For me the mix is a bit bright to consume. There is too much mid range. I think the trumpet is too high in the mix and the brightness of it doesnt sit well with everything else. I dont know, bring down the trumpet a bit and everything else might make sense without really touching the eq's. If I heard this mix live, id probably enjoy it. It sounds like it was recorded at a live show almost. So I think some proper room placement through reverb, and bringing down the trumpet a bit, pulling back on eq additions in the mid range will give you a more cohesive mix.

I listened to the second version now, and the mix is more consumable. I hear the changes to the trumpet, and I think you took off to much mids from the trumpet, some of the attack is missing. Bring a bit back. Also maybe a longer compression release on the trumpet.

[andyspiller]

You might also try splitting Piano and EP L/R so that although they are playing in the same range, they're not playing in the same place (think 60s Blue Note). I would be inclined to cut some lower mid from the Bass and push the bottom, also to make the brass suspension line C-D-E-D (If it's in F) drier and rise and fall more <->. You could probably detune the Trumpet on the repeated bars (where the tuning issues are) in the lower key by about 25cents and probably get away with it. I would also be inclined to uncompress the bass but ride it to get a more natural but still consistent sound.

Hope this may help

[leary]

nice tune! sounds to me that there is still too much in the 700hz-2,5k area.

[dannycurtean@yah]

Originally Posted by leary

nice tune! sounds to me that there is still too much in the 700hz-2,5k area.

Thats interesting you say that. I hear it and it sounds fine here. But I take it either my speakers or my converter is lieing. I say this because at home I mix through Roland DS-7's (good speakers) and an Edirol FA-101 interface. Yeah, i have monster cables on every in and out, monster power cables and all that jass (which btw DOES make a difference, and if you cant hear it, your deaf or your monitors already have good cables). Every time I take a mix to the big studio I hear that there is too much in the 700-1.6 K EVERY TIME! Like saxs for example. Every time I mix a sax tune at home, the sax has that really honky sound, as do most of the things. But at home, here, It sounds full, ballanced and it helps things get in their own atmosphere. I blame this in part to my speakers, I think, because they are probably missing some of that mid mid range.

BTW, to all that have posted, THANK YOU. It really helps you focus on certain problem areas when other contribute with their oppinions and helps you judge your work better. Thank you! You guys rock. Here is another version of the mix.

I moved things around, and brought down the buss level so the limiter was not being hit too hard, and besides Nuendos buss seems to sound 10x better when you are mixing at about -8 db then when your around -2 db. Anyways, I also brought down the parallel busses for compression to help things breathe better. It just seems that the Mp3's really bring out certain things that I dont hear in the DAW more so (like the bass, sounds WAY compressed, and the trumpet is louder than I wanted it to be, ect)

[dannycurtean@yah]

Here is another Mixer's interpretation of the same song plus a couple percussion tracks that he mixed. Which vibe do you think works better with this song? I think for this Cha cha stuff its important to have the percussion up front, poping in your face with lots of depth to the other things, but what would some of you do? Of course these were mixed ITB (both were).

So like I said this is the mixer Im mixing this song for, he did this mix to show me how its done. What do you guys thing, which should I ultimately go for? What would you pick as the right vibe and what can I incorporate in my mix? He wants it to sound like that.

[u b k]

that last mix has a much better vibe; in truth, it's the only mix that *has* a vibe. it's still got that annoying tonality, and every percussive element is too spiky, metallic, and aggressive for my tastes. congas are too upfront too.

but the vibe is definitely there on that mix, it just needs some mellowing and a few balance shifts.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.

[squashboxstudio]

I like your latest mix much better than the dwayne mix. I see where he is trying to take it but im not really a fan of those older type of recordings. I think yours sounds really good after you took the harshness out of it. Good luck.

[leary]

your latest mix sounds better to me but a bit too bright.

[TacosWhenTwisted]

That metallic mallet type sound is a bit high in the mix as well, its overpowering as far as attention goes. The trumpet in the final mix sounds good as far as EQ now, but now its just slightly low. Where is the master level peaking for the entire mix?

You might want to step away from the project for a week, and come back to it after listening to other music or not listening to much music. When your listening to one track over and over, the mids start to sound like they arent too high because they've been burned into your ears, they've adjusted to them. Come back to it in a week or so.

[dannycurtean@yah]

Ok fellas, hows this!

I just got some Sonalksis plugins that I LOVE TO DEATH! My god, I have not been able to make filters and expanders do this EVER! Ive tried everything from SSL to Sony and I just couldn't get this to "pop" like this. Heres my new mix. I agree that the previous mix was too spiky and annoying sounding but it was there as an example to get opinions on which road is better. I think it sounds much better, and even though it might need some adjustment here and there, I think that this sounds pretty good. I actually am liking it. BTW, the Dwayne mix has a bunch more percussion in it than this one (because I dont have the prec. tracks). SO keep that in mind.

Lets hear it on this one.....

[u b k]

*very* nice work, you got it. thumbsup

now run it thru a culture vulture in parallel, slam the whole enchilada into a 2500 or ubk fatso, and call it a day.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.

[dannycurtean@yah]

Originally Posted by u b k

*very* nice work, you got it. thumbsup

now run it thru a culture vulture in parallel, slam the whole enchilada into a 2500 or ubk fatso, and call it a day.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.

Yeah, the Vulture would be GREAT! But! I dont have one! LOL Ive heard great things about your Fatsos though. Didnt know until recently that you were an electrical engineer.

Thanks for the comments BTW, you have been of great help. I tried the 2500 on the mix buss, but it seems that I like the SSL with a 2:1 catching about 2.5 db at the peaks on this one. The mix just falls apart when I disable it now lol, its great. Ohh and another secret weapon of mine, a free one actually, the Antress Modern Analoger. This things is AMAZING! Its free, and the saturation you can dial up its extraordinary. Sounds SUPER organic, and trust you me when I tell you, not even the Waves plugins can hold shit against this thing (as far as saturation). And I thought the API really was great, try this thing. Modern Analoger by Antress. Theyre FREE FOR GODS SAKE! The other stuff, is OK, not that great, but the analoger, ohh man.

And to be bolder, not even the URS Strip Pro has ANYTHING against this thing. Its really nice! And you can literally dial up the kind of color you want and it just makes everything allot more 3D. And whats great, you cant overdo it!

Anyways, UBK if youd be so kind, id love to run my mix through a Fatso, if ye shall provide one . Kidding......well....not im not

Thanks guys!


BTW. I used the analoger on the mix buss, a BIG contributor to the sound! In fact, id be willing to provide a A/B sample if anybody asks. And this was completely ITB.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by dannycurtean@yah

Anyways, UBK if youd be so kind, id love to run my mix through a Fatso...

this is the aptly named Glue compressor doing 0-2db reduction, warmth occasionally grabbing about 5db on the tops of percussion.

this file has now been thru 2 mp3 conversions and i'm assuming you ran it thru a digital brickwall as well. in spite of all that, it still came out sounding like a record.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.

[dannycurtean@yah]

Originally Posted by u b k

this is the aptly named Glue compressor doing 0-2db reduction, warmth occasionally grabbing about 5db on the tops of percussion.

this file has now been thru 2 mp3 conversions and i'm assuming you ran it thru a digital brickwall as well. in spite of all that, it still came out sounding like a record.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.

dude, you ROCK!

Its amazing what this Fatso thing can bring out! It just has a sheen about it and a space about it now that it didnt have before. But what happened with the volume?

I level matched the two, up sampled to 96k and threw in some meters and the UBK one is slightly wider on the phase meter but other than some small nuances in tone, its not night and day but it is better. Its controlled yet still dynamic. Its nice, I laaaik, sheeeezzz naiiiisss! How mache?

[TacosWhenTwisted]

sounds much better.

[Relaxed Man]

Hi everyone.
I thought i'd give it a try. Enjoy

RM