HYDROGYN - Back In Black

[mwagener]

Well, here is the cover of Back In Black (most of it) performed by the band HYDROGYN during our last workshop at WireWorld. The mix is not quite finished (I think the snare is a bit too loud, the kick could come up a bit and the outro solo is a bit too loud). The full version has an actual ending and is of course not faded in.

Let me know what you think

UPDATE JULY 2005:

I took the song down for various reasons (see last post) I'll put it back up when it's finished.

[Waylon]

interesting.... thank God that when I clicked the liek it was indeed a chick singing All I coudl think was, " hey, Rob Halford shouldnt do AC/DC tunes..."

I agree about the snare.. but I am just on the PC speakers... it also sounds really crunchy..... but yet not really glued together. If that last comment makes sense to anyone. really interestign potential for the band, it will be cool to watch what happens.

[Brent]

loved it. Singer needs to come up. Snare needs to be tamed and brought down a hair. I love those guitars too! How did you record those if I may ask?

All the best.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Brent

loved it. Singer needs to come up. Snare needs to be tamed and brought down a hair. I love those guitars too! How did you record those if I may ask?

All the best.

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul (one Custom one Standard) > Randall RM-4 Plexy module > Randall 2/50 poweramp > Randall stereo cab (left side EL34s, right side 6L6 power tubes) 2x Royer 121 center cone about 2" away; and
also out from the pre module to the Randal RM 100 amp (used for poweramp only) with 4X EL34 > ENGL 4X12 (Vintage 30s) > Crowley and Tripp "Proscenium" Ribbon mic.
We also used the direct outs of the Randall cabs (Miceliminator). The Royers went through the Chandler TG-2 and the C&T went through the SeventhCircleAudio A12 mic pre. All 5 channels were mixed toghether in the Sony DMX R100 to a single buss then to the CraneSong HEDD with the Tape knob on 5 and the Pentode knob on 5.5 then through the HEDD converters to the R-1 (one track for each guitar).

The solo used the "Plexy" Module with a little bit of the "XTC" module mixed in, same chain.

The vocal mic was a Beyer M740 (on advice of Bob Olhssen included in the shootout) All other mics were too bright in the upper midrange for Julie. Vocal preamp was the SeventhCircleAudio N72 > Distressor > Euphonix converters > R1. During the mix I used the Chandler TG-1 compressor on the lead vocal track, which made the vocal a lot thicker.

[Jose Mrochek]

Impressive. When you first told us you were doing this Michael, I was skeptical since the original version is a classic.

I'm not a friend of doing covers, but this rocks. It sounds so solid!! You are the man! Great band to, wow. I heard it like 5 times now..

I wish these guys all the best, hope their record does great, I'm sure it will.

[rainsinvelvet]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Well, here is the cover of Back In Black (most of it) performed by the band HYDROGYN during our last workshop at WireWorld. The mix is not quite finished (I think the snare is a bit too loud, the kick could come up a bit and the outro solo is a bit too loud). The full version has an actual ending and is of course not faded in.

Let me know what you think

Here's my thoughts while listening on my little computer speakers...

Kick- didn't think it was to quiet.
Snare- same thoughts as everyone else.
Lead Vox- I thought it could come up a bit.

Dammit if it doesn't sound great anyhow. Michael, you do great work!

ERic

[mwagener]

Thanx guys

The mix was a workshop community effort. I'll remix it when we do the album next month. Yeah I think HYDROGYN is a band to watch out for

[paultools]

I love the snare (drummer here LOL)
What was the chain on it? Very isolated.. almost like a sample.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by paultools

I love the snare (drummer here LOL)
What was the chain on it? Very isolated.. almost like a sample.

Well, the snare was quite an effort:
Microphones (see picture): main top mic was a cheap Octava 219 through a John Hardy M-1.
The second top mic was a Shure SM57 through a Summit Tube mic pre (vintage) and slightly overdriven, phase adjusted to the Octava.
Bottom mic was another Octava 219 through another M-1
I split the top Octava after the mic pre to go through a SPL Transientdesigner and recorded that on a separate track. The TD would just add attack to the top mic.

In the mix the SM57 was multed and one channel was delayed by 28.5 ms and the high end rolled off to give that bounce. The bottom mic was gated and keyed by the top mic.

[paultools]

I see you used the old chewing gum on the batter head trick...LOL
Didn't think it was just a stock 57... well worth the effort!!!
Beautiful drum as well!

[Froombosch]

Real great work Michael! Even on my laptop speakers it sounds great. I am ofcourse missing the real low end, but is it maybe an idea to put some more 600 HZ on the bass gitar? I can not hear it on these small speakers.....

Damn I wish I could build a sound like this.....

Kind regard,



Harrie

[Andreas G]

... if that's a mix you've got under workshop conditions, than it must be a great workshop! ...so sad that I'm so far away

... a thought crossed my mind when I heard your mix first time: I'd love to hear a very strong compressed drums room, say a "Cozy Powell typ roomsound", tempo and drumstyl are perfect for that kind of sound, the mix would win on deepness and the power of the drums would be "underlined" ... however, that's a matter of taste ...andreas

[Killahurts]

Michael,

I'm able to listen to it in the CR on the ADAMs. Maybe the snare could come down a bit, or maybe just bring the whole band up.
But in that song I would think it would be hard to mix the snare in, because it's out there all by itself most of the time. If you get it too low, the song would be "out of balance".

The singer kicks my ass! She is very talented, as is the whole band.

In the mix the SM57 was multed and one channel was delayed by 28.5 ms and the high end rolled off to give that bounce.

Just under the echo perception line, no? Well, at least I don't hear it... but I do hear what it's doing....you have beautiful mind MW.

[blackcatdigi]

Geez, Michael... You slay me.

Sounds awesome; Great job!

[5down1up]

back in black BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

the drum sound is super nice , i love that snare ,
and the song is one of my all time favourite anyway .

only thing i could complain about ( if u wanna hear it ... e )

singers a lil to fast in vers1 , kinda " kills " the groove a lil and i dont like that trtrtrt snare fill before the chorus after the solo ...

but what do i know

nice job michael , as always i enjoy listening to your stuff !

let us know bout that bass drum sound !

homeland germanys proud of you



<-- plays it once again and jumps around naked in the room

[jchadstopherhuez]

Mr.Wagener...

wow....that is a great cover...of course it sounds AMAZING...not suprising there...great work Michael....I love the guitar sounds and the drums sound AMAZING as well....LOVE the snare !!!!! I also really like the sound you got on the vocals....I find it difficult to get some female vocals to sound huge and present in a big rock mix like this cover of Back in Black.

i work with a band called missilesilosuite, a 2 gtr rock band with an amazing female singer...she has the LOUDEST voice EVER...(was a broadway performer in her past) and she has developed AMAZING projection...I do have problems capturing her voice without killing any mics...usually a sm7 or 57 is the best choice...I may have to research the beyer that you used...

Not to intrude on your thread, but i have included a mp3 of a cover version of "Dream On" that I cut with the band I am speaking of....I'd really be interested to see what you think of the mix, and maybe some info on your compression settings, the room, mic distance....etc.. used for the Hyydrogen vocalist...she has a similar voice to the vocalist from Missile Silo Suite.

Kudos again on the tune...the band rocks...the mix rocks...fun to hear such a great song re-done...

cheers,
j
mixman499

[mwagener]

mixman

I like the mix you did. Maybe the voice is a little loud in the verses?

I think it's always easy to do a cover if you go close to the original sound, isn't it? After all there is already a template.

The vocals were recorded with the Beyer MC740 through the SeventhCircleAudio N72 and compressed via a Distressor, 6-1 ratio, attack on 4, release on 2, detector on the midrange setting and distortion on 2 with the link button on but no link cable, (thanx for the tip Fletcher), the peaks hit around 20dB gain reduction. That chain gave me the smoothest response to her voice.

[jchadstopherhuez]

hi michael..

thanks alot for the comments...

can i ask the effect of having the stereo link button in on the distressor...??

i will definitely give the beyer a go...it may be what I have been looking for...my sm7 usually is the best...but seems to favor male vocalists better..

fun to record covers I think...trying to match the vibe and the sounds of the original gives great insight into the increasingly lost art of recording....I STILL use aerosmith, zeppeiln, t rex, and even some of the "hairbands" that you worked on as my inspirations for making good sounding records. I still am amazed at the first Saigon Kick record and the first SKID ROW record...AMAZING sounds....

I am anxious to hear more from this band...they can rock out AC/DC this hard...they gotta be great...can't wait to hear some original stuff...

bring back the rock !!!!!

cheers,
j

[heyman]

Michael, great representation of that classic snare sound... You nailed it. I also love that Kick drum Sound.. Nice and full and round at the bottom - no mush at all..

Hey can you take me thorugh the steps of the Kick drum sound- how you got it where it is... Mics'- pre's ...

PS- i think the Lead guitar can come up during the solo...

Great Job. I gotta get down to one of your 4 day workshops...

Jim

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by mixman499

can i ask the effect of having the stereo link button in on the distressor...??

j

Fletcher showed me that when you unplug the link cable, engage the link button anyway, it will enhance the enhance the harmonic content of the selected distortion. Works well.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by djui5

What was the sample you added to the snare?

SAMPLE ??? No sample used here, I don't like samples. That's the way the drummer played it.

[sysexguy]

[jchadstopherhuez]

thanks michael (and fletcher) for the tip on the distressor...gotta try that !!!!!

"samples.....we dont need no stinkin samples !!!!!!"

i got into the bad habit of putting a sample under EVERY KICK and snare when I first started recording...(about 2 yrs ago...) then one day, I muted those channels and ACTUALLY used the REAL KIK AND SNARE....wow !!

of course it sure helps to have a great drummer and a great drum....and a world class engineer like michael behind the board !!!

cheers,
j

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by heyman

Michael, great representation of that classic snare sound... You nailed it. I also love that Kick drum Sound.. Nice and full and round at the bottom - no mush at all..

Hey can you take me thorugh the steps of the Kick drum sound- how you got it where it is... Mics'- pre's ...

PS- i think the Lead guitar can come up during the solo...

Great Job. I gotta get down to one of your 4 day workshops...

Jim

Kick chain:
inside: Shure SM91 > Hardy M-1 micpre > LittleLabs IBP > Euphonix converters.
outside: 6" speaker aboput 1.5" away from the head > 10 dB pad > VIPRE micpre (300ohm, medium rise time) > Euphonix converters
Both mics were recorded on separate tracks.
During the mix I brought up 4kHz a litttle on the SM91to enhance the attack a bit.

[mwagener]

Here is a little video clip of Julie from HYDROGYN singing the actual take of BiB:

Julie

[sysexguy]

mixing westlakes on adams...... that's almost as good as Martin Taylor plays Yamaha

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by sysexguy

mixing westlakes on adams...... that's almost as good as Martin Taylor plays Yamaha

[mwagener]

Here is a picture of the kick setup:

[hethaerto]

thumbsup I've been waiting for years for someone to cover Back In Black. It takes pure balls to attempt. This girl started off weak, but suddenly started doin' it right.
Everything sounds good. That damn lead guitar tone and execution is marvelous!

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by djui5

I didn't think you did.

That's one hell of a consistent snare crack if you ask me.

Yeah he is a great drummer thumbsup It's all about great musicians, isn't it?