Prog Rock Song Please Critique

[NyquistFilter]

All comments and criticism welcome!

[Andreas G]

wow,

i think you created a new style of rockmusic, it has something very unique!
it´s a little bit "stressy" but that mirrows perfect the time we live in.
i´m at home now (it´s after midnight in Germany) and will listen again tomorrow in my studio and post you my impressions of the tec side of your mix.

my compliment, refreshing creativ work!

andreas

[Jose Mrochek]

WOW, I'm speechless.My sincere respects.

[Winey]

Nice.
A bit thin and the chorus could sound bigger.
Nice guitar parts.
I don't like the fluttery kicks in the chorus either.
Very original though.

[adamcal]

my 2c

really cool music, but im a prog fan

anyway, the first thing I noticed was some possible note/tuning possible tuning issue between the piano and gituar at 0.22

secondly I agree the chorus could be fatter, bass up perhaps.

I dont mind the double kiks, but I would attemt to make em more human and less perfect (turn every 2nd one down a bit, use a random switching sample if it isnt already)

while I like the style and the song, I dont think much of the mix, this is hard stuff to get right and It will take a lot of work and several attempts (hope your in the box), keep going, it will be awesome, dont be afarid to make it huge, make it epic. Im thinking it sounds a bit 2D at the moment.

if you are also the composer/player of the work, you may find it hard to mix it yourself.

as I said just my 2c

[PlugHead]

very, very cool - well thought out, and imaginative.

Biggest thing to me is the gtrs. dwarf the drums. Drums need to kick way more - agreed also that the dbl. kick pattern soundz too static - that, plus the voice near the end needs to come up more. I think some serious panning could make the mix wider.

Good job nonetheless!

[NyquistFilter]

Thanks for all the compliments! I pretty much agree with all the critiques so far. I think it sounds thin and 2 dimensional also. I am mixing this one in the box so I will be able to come back to it later. I feel like I've already spent so much time fighting with this mix just to have it not really do it for me. I also played and programmed everything on this (besides the singing) so that makes me even more burnt on it. Usually when I get to this point I just move on to a new song and try to make that one better.

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by Winey

Nice.
A bit thin and the chorus could sound bigger.
Nice guitar parts.
I don't like the fluttery kicks in the chorus either.
Very original though.

When you say thin do you think it is just in the sounds I got to disk or is the thinness something that I can fix in the mix? Any tips would be appreciated.

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

Drums need to kick way more - agreed also that the dbl. kick pattern soundz too static - that, plus the voice near the end needs to come up more. I think some serious panning could make the mix wider.

Good job nonetheless!

I agree about the drums. It's a little difficult to do dbl kick patterns convincingly with samples. Or maybe it's not and I just need work on it.

[adamcal]

it can be done, just need to use the right samples and get stuck into the velocity.

have you tried BFD, or DKFHS etc.

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by adamcal

it can be done, just need to use the right samples and get stuck into the velocity.

have you tried BFD, or DKFHS etc.

This song was done w/ BFD. It's still hard to get a super fast double bass thing sounding natural.

[Andreas G]

hi again, some things id work on:

solovox: very bright, but could be more distinct, 2-3db at 3,5k, a little warm up at 100hz, cut 1-2db with the highshelf if it becomes to harsh or deess.

kick: crank up the low shelf at least 6db.

snare: a bit louder, sometimes the hh is louder than the snare.

2rythmguits: more pressure, they sound thin! 3-5 db around 130-200hz, try out.

for more 3d: pan the piano at 2-3 o´clock, pan the pianos delay/reverb at 9-10 o´clock, delay/reverb only in mono (the mix is dense enough). pan the bass at 10-11, try asymmetric comp-technics, for instance stereosources: no sterolink on .... or: comp. only one chanel but make them equal loud, try asymmetric-eq technics....try,try,try...and so on... there is really a lot to try

the static high speeeed double kick: detune one of the kicks and/or accentuate the first and the .... ....you´ll know the beats (6/8, 12/16 ????)

if all suck... kick the double kick out, kick your harley on, track the harley´s sound, strech it to the right beat and strip it in the mix (...just kidding)


good luck

andreas

[Wireneck]

My hat goes off to you. There is some incredible melodic riffing going on in this. I think everyone covered you on the mix comments. My biggest complaint and its not really a complaint would be that I would love to hear this with a stronger singer. Don't get me wrong the vocallist is by no means bad. I just think all the falsetto type stuff takes away from the power in some sections. This could rip even more with somone who could really belt out some of those sections. Excellent work.....I would definitely be intersted in hearing more of this.

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

if all suck... kick the double kick out, kick your harley on, track the harley´s sound, strech it to the right beat and strip it in the mix (...just kidding)


good luck

andreas

Thanks for all the tips Andreas. I really appreciate it. I've gotta try that Harley trick! LOL I guess a Harley is the next piece of recording gear I need to invest in : )

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by Wireneck

My hat goes off to you. There is some incredible melodic riffing going on in this. I think everyone covered you on the mix comments. My biggest complaint and its not really a complaint would be that I would love to hear this with a stronger singer. Don't get me wrong the vocallist is by no means bad. I just think all the falsetto type stuff takes away from the power in some sections. This could rip even more with somone who could really belt out some of those sections. Excellent work.....I would definitely be intersted in hearing more of this.

I think the singer suits the song perfectly. She is the balance that makes you want to hear this song over and over. A stronger singer would be overkill.

[Wireneck]

Holy crap call me crazy but I listened to it twice and never caught that it was a girl. With all these guys overdoing falsetto I just assumed it was a guy trying to sound like Muse etc.... Makes a heck of alot more sense knowing that its a female voice. I still think the chorus would be much larger sounding with a more powerful voice. The voice is great but it gets a little repetitive IMHO.

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by Wireneck

Holy crap call me crazy but I listened to it twice and never caught that it was a girl. With all these guys overdoing falsetto I just assumed it was a guy trying to sound like Muse etc.... Makes a heck of alot more sense knowing that its a female voice. I still think the chorus would be much larger sounding with a more powerful voice. The voice is great but it gets a little repetitive IMHO.

hahaha I can't wait to tell Sara (the singer) about that. Thanks everyone for all the feedback. It will all be very useful for when I have the patience to remix this. I'll definitely repost it when I do.

[Winey]

She sure didn't sound male to me.
I think her voice really fits the track too.


The chorus just won't jump out (might be the compression).
You might want to automate to lay off the verses a bit and really kick in at the chorus with a 2-3db jump for good measure.
Real drums would really wake this track up.
If that's not possible you could try a different kick sample or some EQ.
You need a kick that's big, but gets out of the way really fast.
At this tempo it won't be easy.

Once again very cool and different.
Nice work.

[joaquin]

Hey NyquistFilter!! Great Music!!,,,is it yours?

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by joaquin

Hey NyquistFilter!! Great Music!!,,,is it yours?

Jaoquin, thanks for the compliment! Yes this is my project I've been working on. It's just me and the singer. I'm glad that even though the mix falls short people are still digging the song because It's all about the song right? Of couse that doesn't stop me from obsessing over the mix night and day.

[Wireneck]

I don't think the singer sounds Non-female but there are quite a few guys on the scene right now that have this same type vibe. I think the background vox in the chorus was the thing that threw me off the most. The distorted screaming I guess? Vocal, its kind of buried but sounds like a male.
Either way Female/male it sounds great.

[NeoVXR]

the intro is too long to keep my attention. the voice sneaks in like "am I in the right show here?" - I would prefer the first line a capella.
the interlude is also long. if the album is such epic by concept, maybe the listener accepts it.

in the chorus vocals are disappearing. high end could be more dynamic and open. the drum tracks are pushing the others away with HF.
the bass range is also weak, except the machine gun drums. but it is good that the bass guitar sounds jazzy and vintage.
polyphonic voicings (background voc, chorus) are good.

from the material, the song is very good.
the concept and idea of the mix is also good.
keep on!!

[Wireneck]

How many songs do you have finished for this project? I've been listening to this alot. The music/riffing/mood reminds me alot of Dark Tranquillity with a more progressive edge. Excellent work, I hope my initial post didn't sound to negative because Im really liking this.

[dasbin]

This song reminds me almost uncannily of the band Metric. Their overall sound (and plus their female singer) is very similar.
It's not right up my alley, but well done. The instruments are maybe a bit too 'synthesized' rather than 'raw' sounding for me.

[lucey]

I like it

The mix needs more space and more push when it rocks. The choruses are over compressed ... the whole thing is way hot and as such it doesn't move.

Tonally speaking, you've done what many ITB mixers do ... muddied up the low mids going for the non digital sounding "warmth" and kept the upper mids dark as your eq's probably sound bad boosting in the 800-7 k range.

[lucey]

Here's a sample master with some tweaks ...

please keep in mind this is an mp3 of an mp3

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by Wireneck

How many songs do you have finished for this project?

Finished? What's finished, that word is not in my vocabulary. LOL

We have about five songs right now in various states of completion but none up to the level of satisfaction that would permit me to say "finished". I'm working on it though.

Glad you like it!

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by lucey

Here's a sample master with some tweaks ...

please keep in mind this is an mp3 of an mp3

more warmth, more punch and a clearer voith....that´s it

nice job lucey

[NyquistFilter]

Originally Posted by lucey

I like it


Tonally speaking, you've done what many ITB mixers do ... muddied up the low mids going for the non digital sounding "warmth" and kept the upper mids dark as your eq's probably sound bad boosting in the 800-7 k range.

Lucey, thanks for the feedback. Regarding your statement above, what tips can you give, if any, to avoid this or improve ITB mixes? Also, I'm listening to your mastering sample and wanted to ask what you have done to improve the sound.

Thanks

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

more warmth, more punch and a clearer voith....that´s it

nice job lucey

Thanks Andreas

Originally Posted by NyquistFilter

Lucey, thanks for the feedback. Regarding your statement above, what tips can you give, if any, to avoid this or improve ITB mixes? Also, I'm listening to your mastering sample and wanted to ask what you have done to improve the sound.

Thanks

Well, the short answer is .... a $50,000 chain and a few minutes of knob turns!

The medium answer is ... an all ananlog path using 3 eqs and a re-AD and the HEDD, no compression and almost no limiting (only -1 or -2 on the last chorus).

The longest answer is for clients only, sorry. I'm have to protect my work, you understand.


Basically I added tone quality with 2 tube units, low end with 2 of the 3 eq's and midrange with 2 of the 3 eqs, some high end/air with 1 eq.

I also lowered the volume of everything by 3db and part by part raised sections for flow. The choruses up most ... the last chorus is loudest of all.


What you can do for sure is hold off on the slamming until mastering, it was at -10dbfs RMS all the way through and had no where to go. Other than that I was addressing the issues that were listed above ... the kick, the punch, etc..


This is all typical of what I do to digital mixes ... add tone quality with outboard and make it generally more alive.