Metal tune (mix advice please)

[Wireneck]

My friend and I have been collaborating off and on for about a year now. I finally have enough stuff tracked to start mixing.Its instrumental at this point but we do intend to have vocals once a suitable singer has been found. Im on guitar/bass and he did the drums.
Any mix comments/advice would be greatly appreciated. I know that its definitely not there yet. Im hoping you guys can offer some valuable advice.

[Wireneck]

heres the file

[evolver]

hey, great job! nice mic'ing technique on everything. i dont really have any criticism, except MAYBE the low mids are a little muddy at times, but its not mastered so. . i can't really complain.

what did you use for the gutiars? amps/mics wise ?

The only advice id give then is to get that singer, i think your ready for him :-) and itll be hard to really evaluate a mix without all the components.
especially something as up front as a vocal part.

kristian

[Wireneck]

Evolver- thanks for listening. The guitar chain was my vintage 79 les paul custom into a mesa nomad 45 short tube head into a marshall jcm 1960a cab. For the rhythms I just used a Shure sm-57. The leads are a combinantion of the nomad head as well as my Marshall bichorus 200 head. For those I used an Electrovoice-635a. Tracked everything through my 24 channel Soundtracs Solo console to Adat.

[Wireneck]

Djui5 Do you think the bass is overpowering as in "too loud" or do you mean that the low end isn't quite in check?

I agree about the performance issues. We don't get to play together very often so it kind of is what it is. We have alot of fun doing it so I guess thats what really counts.

I'll give the acoustic thing a try. Never considered that but I am always open to experimentation.

thanks for the listen and the helpful comments.

[Jose Mrochek]

Sombody likes Rush


I don't blame him for his timing issues (drummer). Really complicated stuff you guys are doing

My only question is , how the hell are you planning on putting a vocal on this one ?????? I've been trying to think of a melody for the past minutes and can't find the place.

You are very good though.You definetly can play guitar. Try finding a producer or (outside help) to give this some perspective in the "big picture" department.

[Wireneck]

My only question is , how the hell are you planning on putting a vocal on this one ?????? I've been trying to think of a melody for the past minutes and can't find the place.

I don't really know how to answer that one. The material is pretty straight forward IMHO. We have someone working on the vocals and they didn't seem to think it was a problem. I think the stuff lends itself to melody pretty well (hence all of the melodic lead lines). I guess its all in what your used to though. The real question is "how did they come up with the vocals on Spiral Architect's "A sceptics universe" Lmao"

Thanks for the listen/comments

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by Wireneck
I don't really know how to answer that one. The material is pretty straight forward IMHO. We have someone working on the vocals and they didn't seem to think it was a problem. I think the stuff lends itself to melody pretty well (hence all of the melodic lead lines). I guess its all in what your used to though. The real question is "how did they come up with the vocals on Spiral Architect's "A sceptics universe" Lmao"

Thanks for the listen/comments

Please post the sung version when you have it, i'm really curious as to what direction it will take.

[Wireneck]

Djui5 thanks for the good advice. I think the hi-pass on the bass helped unmask the kick and it cleaned up some of the boominess on larger systems.
When you said brighten up the solo in your earlier post. Were you referring to all of the lead lines or just the actual solo before the acoustic break?
Thanks again for your help

Jose I will definitely post the vocal version once it is finished. I can use all the mix advice I can get.

[evolver]

Originally posted by Wireneck
I don't really know how to answer that one. The material is pretty straight forward IMHO.

I hear Dream Theater style vocals all over this one. But its the kind of thing where people who have never listened to prog metal much might not get where it could work. I dont hear a problem with where the vocals would go.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by evolver
I hear Dream Theater style vocals all over this one. But its the kind of thing where people who have never listened to prog metal much might not get where it could work. I dont hear a problem with where the vocals would go.

I sense a problem of song structure more than anything else. ofcourse there are no "rules", more so in this style of music. There are some excellent parts but put on the wrong places. In my humble opinion.

Sorry to the poster, I know you wanted mix advice.

Gearslutz needs a production forum "hint hint" JULES!!!!!!!!

[evolver]

Originally posted by Jose Mrochek
I sense a problem of song structure more than anything else.

you could be right. however until we get to hear what the singer does its next to impossible to really tell. he could be the next brilliant vocalist and work wonders, or just mediocre and fall into the traps of the songs.

[Jason Poulin]

Something is not working with the reverb on the drums.

It reminds me of a computer souncard reverb for midi.

Anyhow, very original composition... cool guitars.

Jason

[Wireneck]

I sense a problem of song structure more than anything else.

Your entitled to your opinion. I still contend that the structure/layout is pretty straight forward IMHO. With that said, im open to feedback/advice. What exactly would you do differently (assuming this was a "PRODUCER" forum)? Also just out of curiousity what is your background in this style of music?
At any rate we just write/play for fun whenever we can. No disillusioned dreams of being a rockstar or anything like that. I guess its more of a hobby these days.

Something is not working with the reverb on the drums.

It reminds me of a computer souncard reverb for midi.

Wow thats harsh dude.

Its a Tc. Electronics M300 . I thought it sounded ok? Oh well thanks for the Listen.

[Jason Poulin]

sorry buddy,

I didn't mean for it to be that harsh. It can also be my speakers.

Although they're not bad... I just think the verb should be different and less apparent.

That's only my opinion, please don't take offence. The song rocks.

As for layout, I am also a progressive guitarist so I know what you're saying... it's all good man, the same ole verse chorus verse bridge thing doesn't do it for me anymore.


Jason

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by Wireneck
Your entitled to your opinion. I still contend that the structure/layout is pretty straight forward IMHO. With that said, im open to feedback/advice. What exactly would you do differently (assuming this was a "PRODUCER" forum)? Also just out of curiousity what is your background in this style of music?
At any rate we just write/play for fun whenever we can. No disillusioned dreams of being a rockstar or anything like that. I guess its more of a hobby these days.

I will download it again tonight, and get back to you. I did not intend to sound "mr. know it all" specialy because it's not the type of stuff I do, but I did sense of parts put in the wrong places. At least "un expected" places at first listen.

You should not take this as a hobby, because you are really good.

[Wireneck]

Jason no hard feelings man. I didn't really take offense but I can't imagine a worse sounding verb than a MIDI verb haha.
Im still sort of on the fence about the level of "wetness'. I think once I get a vocal on there it won't be as apparent.
At any rate thanks for listening and commenting.

Jose no problem, just curious where you would put stuff. I think alot of the parts that sound like "New sections" throw people off but they are basically just variations on the same riffs. I think the vocals help outline the structure a little bit better but who knows.

You should not take this as a hobby, because you are really good.

Thanks for the compliment. I haven't lost all hope yet.....im only 22

[Vlad]

I thought the composition and playing on the song were stellar!
Great job!

The only thing I didn't care too much for was the guitar tone. It wasn't bad by any means, but it was a bit thin, especially in the low-end. It would be great to have some more girth to that more chugging parts.

[Bang]

I thought this sounded great. If I can lend any advice, it would be to make it SMACK a bit more. Also, one thing that kinda got me is the relationship between the ultra dry in your face guitars with the roomy big drums. Sounds cool, but might want to experiment giving the guitars a tiny of bit of space, may a tiny bit of delay or add a smudge of it to some ambience, just to put the whole mix on the same plane. The bass could tighten up a bit. I love the drum sound.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[beechstudio]

Great Job!

I like the tune! I can definately hear some James Labrie type vocals on this one! I'm into the Prog-rock stuff!

Please post when you get vocals on it!

[Wireneck]

vlad

It would be great to have some more girth to that more chugging parts

You could be right. I may have hi-passed a little to far up on the way in. Im recording all of this in my apartment so im having issues with getting the tones I want at low volumes.
Thanks for listening.

Bang

Also, one thing that kinda got me is the relationship between the ultra dry in your face guitars with the roomy big drums.

I've been struggling with getting everything to sound like they are in the same place. I'll give your suggestions a try and see what happens.

thanks for taking the time to listen and comment.

Beechstudio if only we could find a vocallist who rips it like Dream Theatre or Fates Warning. There doesn't seem to be too many of those guys around these days.
I should be able to post a vocal mix in the next week or two. thanks for the listen.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Wireneck

vlad



You could be right. I may have hi-passed a little to far up on the way in. Im recording all of this in my apartment so im having issues with getting the tones I want at low volumes.
Thanks for listening.

What does your guitar rig look like? What are you using?

[Jose Mrochek]

Transitions that seemed weird and unexpected.

on second :47 (I don't feel this part is necesary) I think it's due to the drumming...... Rythmically it overpowers what comes before and after, and only happens in this part of the song. Either use it more often or don't. (actually my favorite part of the whole piece, but seems forced to fit.

at 1:40 you go to the break down, (cool to have a breakdown there) but, I don't feel it melodicly does justice to what came before, it through me off with a feeling of I lost it. (due to the notes you used, i find no relation with the other stuff, it gives me a mood I was not expecting and made me nervous.

at 2:05 you get out of the breakdown, to a beautiful part, yet I don't feel the transition is natural. because there is something wrong with the notes used in the breakdown prior to that.


Again, all very subjective... take it from a guy who has no idea about this type of music, more experienced people than me said it was all just fine, I won't be offended if you think my suggestions suck.

[Wireneck]

Vlad my main rig is a vintage 79 Les Paul Custom to a Mesa Boogie Nomad 45 short tube head. I have 2 marshall 4x12 cabs that I use depending on the sound. I've also got a Marshall Bi-chorus 200 head that I use quite a bit. The mesa does ok at lower volumes but truth be told the Marshall just doesn't cut it untill it gets at least moderate volume. Unfortunately in my current living situation I can't crank either one like I would like to.

Jose interesting outlook on things. Its your opinion so I won't try to change that. As we know, there is no right or wrong.

The part at 47 secs is basically the intro again with some rhythmic variation. I guess in some aspects this music is self centered. Its more about entertaining ourselves and keeping things interesting while were playing. At the same time we try and still have "songs" without being one big "Wank" fest.

As I said its your opinion and I won't try to change it. You said the breakdown note choice made you nervous. I guess you could say that "tension" whether it be rhythmic or melodic is another big part of this project.

Thanks for your input.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Wireneck

Vlad my main rig is a vintage 79 Les Paul Custom to a Mesa Boogie Nomad 45 short tube head. I have 2 marshall 4x12 cabs that I use depending on the sound. I've also got a Marshall Bi-chorus 200 head that I use quite a bit. The mesa does ok at lower volumes but truth be told the Marshall just doesn't cut it untill it gets at least moderate volume. Unfortunately in my current living situation I can't crank either one like I would like to.

Have you considered an Attenuator? Something like a THD Hotplate?

[Wireneck]

Everyone was curious about the vocals. Here is my intial mix with vocals. Hope you guys enjoy it

[beechstudio]

Good job Wireneck!

I like your new vocalist! This kinda reminds me of Fates Warning! You might want to match the levels of the vocal parts a little more. Otherwise, it sounds great to me!

Post more when you get a chance! Good stuff!