What do you guys think of this heavy guitar tone?

johnjm22 · 9th January 2005

http://www.chrysalismusic.net/Outspoken.mp3

This is a Marshall JMP-1, mixed in with a Mesa Boogie Single Recto.

Tell me what you guys think. I'm not sure if it's a good tone or not.

gomp · 9th January 2005

I like it! It's rocking.
Wondering though if there is already a bass playing in the song. If so it's difficult to hear, if not you could be in trouble when mixing it together with the guitars.
Good luck, Gomp

johnjm22 · 10th January 2005

No, theres no bass yet it's just guitar.

Riad · 10th January 2005

I like the sound, what mics did you use?

johnjm22 · 10th January 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Riad
I like the sound, what mics did you use?

Two SM57's. One pointed straight at the center, and the other more twords the outer edge at a slight angle. Overdubbed four times.

Riad · 11th January 2005

Cool, thanks. I've been using my tlm-103 and either a 57 or a 421 lately.

johnjm22 · 11th January 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Riad
Cool, thanks. I've been using my tlm-103 and either a 57 or a 421 lately.

Are you using the 103 on heavy guitar? How does it sound?

I've been wanting to record heavy guitar with a Large diaphram condensor, but I can't because I record in my living room. When ever I try to use a LDC it picks up too much other crap like cars going by on the street, my leaking faucet, my roomate walking by ect.

Nerve Nickels · 11th January 2005

What tone ?

Riad · 11th January 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by johnjm22
Are you using the 103 on heavy guitar? How does it sound?

I've been wanting to record heavy guitar with a Large diaphram condensor, but I can't because I record in my living room. When ever I try to use a LDC it picks up too much other crap like cars going by on the street, my leaking faucet, my roomate walking by ect.

I've used it on both clean guitar and very distorted "Incubus type" guitar, I like the way it sounds on both.

I really like how the 103 picks up more of the mids/highs the 421 will give more bottom end... I put the 103 closer to the center of the cone where the highs will be more predominate and the 421/57 close to the edge making sure that both are the same distance from the front grill, about 2-3".

johnjm22 · 11th January 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Nerve Nickels
What tone ?

The guitar tone.

everybody's x · 11th January 2005

I like it alot!!

Jason Poulin · 15th January 2005

Good job!

I love rectos : ))

Jason

picksail · 15th January 2005

I have recently discovered a really amazing combination of mics for tracking overdriven guitar amps with 4x12 cabinets.

TLM 103- 12" to 15" away from direct center of speaker.

D112- pointed at the middle of the outer edge off speaker cone about 1" to 3" out (depending on the SPL level at close proximity).

The 103 provides a lot of necessary information around 2k to 3.5 k and is very intense down to around 750Hz.

The D112 offers nice detail in the low end and upper mid-range. This mic, really, captures all that great percussive, close proximity information (you know, when it sounds like, at any moment, the strings are gonna snap right off the guitar) that you would want from a killer guitar sound. I've never really experienced great results with an SM7 and this was just an arbitrary alternative.

The D112 was sent to an API 312 followed by a Distressor at 3:1, Med attack and quick release. Hi Pass, Dist3, Stereo Link engaged...little attenuation.

The 103 was sent to a 1272 followed, as well, by another Distressor at 4:1, faster attack and quick release, Hi Pass, Dist3, Stereo Link engaged...no more then 2db attenuation.

These were then sent to the 192s into ProTools at 96/24.

No Eq was used during the tracking and only during the mix did I roll the guitars off at 92Hz to allow the bass guitar to be revealed. Albeit, I enjoyed the low end (on the guitars) between 50 - 80 Hz, but the bass guitar had to be prevelent. I was still able to preserve a good bit of the beefiness in the low end, anyway.

Paradoxically, this application is the best I have found for either of these mics. I guess I prefer to approach guitar tracking similar to that off a kick drum...does this make sense?

It also, helps if you arrive early to a session just to allow the tubes in the amp to warm up for several hours before tracking.

They work very well blended together...and is the initial intention anyway.

Just thought I'd share. I went down today to take some recall photos before tomorrows session when I will again use this set-up. Of course, the humidity is now a bit lower, but what do you do?

I'd be more than happy to post a sample of this technique if anyone is interested, but I don't want to hijack your thread.

Here's a shot:

johnjm22 · 15th January 2005

picksail,

Sounds interesting. Please post a sample.

picksail · 15th January 2005

Let me cut a peice of the song for you guys to sample. Look for it later in the evening.

Thanks

Atari · 16th January 2005

yes, please post a sample!

dfegad just wanted to use this icon.. need to grow up

everybody's x · 16th January 2005

I'd like to hear it too

picksail · 16th January 2005

Sorry for the delay. I ventured down to the studio this evening to discover that there was an impromtu tracking session for some movie going on. So I returned home and tried to cut this sample in SparkXL....arghhhh!!!!!!!

Alrighty. Here's the sample I promised. This is from a local indie band called No Sleep. The guitar parts were orginally written to be performed with open chords, so I 'rewrote' them and to the band members I expressed my reasons why, 'With the song in it's current state, it reminds me of a limp d**k... no life, no excitement and no real pay off.'
Unfortunately, the guitarist in the band was incapable of performing the parts (seriously...dead simple parts) so I elected to cut them myself. I'll keep my opinions to myself, anyway...

This tune is about 95% mixed. I'll probably pan them a bit differently and loosen up on the delay a bit. The guitars are up 1.5 db above normal for the sake of hearing them in the sample.

I only HighPassed (92Hz) the guitars in the verses. No processing at all was applied to the choruses, i.e. EQ, compression, etc. So the way you hear them is exactly how they went down.

This is really nothing more than a mere example of "getting it right at the source" and to emphasize this point.

In reality, no one but us audio slutz really cares about this sort of thing. This is just an erronoeous mic combination that I stumbled upon which I discovered works very well in a heavy/punk rock context.

(Copied from former post on pp.1 so that you don't have to return to the previous page)

{I have recently discovered a really amazing combination of mics for tracking overdriven guitar amps with 4x12 cabinets.

TLM 103- 12" to 15" away from direct center of speaker.

D112- pointed at the middle of the outer edge off speaker cone about 1" to 3" out (depending on the SPL at close proximity).

The 103 provides a lot of necessary information around 2k to 3.5 k and is very intense down to around 750Hz.

The D112 offers nice detail in the low end and upper mid-range. This mic, really, captures all that great percussive, close proximity information (you know, when it sounds like, at any moment, the strings are gonna snap right off the guitar) that you would want from a killer guitar sound. I've never really experienced great results with an SM7 and this was just an arbitrary alternative.

The D112 was sent to an API 312 followed by a Distressor at 3:1, Med attack and quick release. Hi Pass, Dist3, Stereo Link engaged...little attenuation.

The 103 was sent to a 1272 followed, as well, by another Distressor at 4:1, faster attack and quick release, Hi Pass, Dist3, Stereo Link engaged...no more then 2db attenuation.

These were then sent to the 192s into ProTools at 96/24.

No Eq was used during the tracking and only during the mix did I roll the guitars off at 92Hz to allow the bass guitar to be revealed. Albeit, I enjoyed the low end (on the guitars) between 50 - 80 Hz, but the bass guitar had to be prevelent. I was still able to preserve a good bit of the beefiness in the low end, anyway.

Paradoxically, this application is the best I have found for either of these mics. I guess I prefer to approach guitar tracking similar to that off a kick drum...does this make sense?

It also, helps if you arrive early to a session just to allow the tubes in the amp to warm up for several hours before tracking.}

picksail · 28th January 2005

Boy, I guess I have successfully hi-jacked this thread.

As an aside, regarding the aformentioned GTR set-up I decided to alter it a bit. With the 103 I changed the compressor to the ADL1000. This helped out a little on some of the grit imparted from the mic and really tapered the tail of the note significantly-the ADL clamped down and spit it out very quickly. No more than 1.5 to 2 db of gain reduction was ever applied. When I get a free moment I'll offer up another sample. This one has approximately 31 guitar tracks in the chorus section with a healthy amount of background and harmonized vocals.

I was using this newly modified set-up on another song from the same artist and my studio partner stopped in during the tracking to take a listen. He was in utter disbelief that this set-up would work so well. He stepped over to the Vintech and flipped the phase-none to speak of. Although, I did opt to slide the tracks (13ms on the 103) a bit until they opended up and sounded the way I wanted.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. Thanks for listening.

9th January 2005	#1
johnjm22 Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Barstow, CA Posts: 372 Thread Starter	What do you guys think of this heavy guitar tone? http://www.chrysalismusic.net/Outspoken.mp3 This is a Marshall JMP-1, mixed in with a Mesa Boogie Single Recto. Tell me what you guys think. I'm not sure if it's a good tone or not.

11th January 2005	#6
Riad Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 1,097	Cool, thanks. I've been using my tlm-103 and either a 57 or a 421 lately. __________________ www.carvelstudios.com "I like my women the way I like my scotch, 20 years old and mix up in coke."

15th January 2005	#13
picksail Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 3,632	I have recently discovered a really amazing combination of mics for tracking overdriven guitar amps with 4x12 cabinets. TLM 103- 12" to 15" away from direct center of speaker. D112- pointed at the middle of the outer edge off speaker cone about 1" to 3" out (depending on the SPL level at close proximity). The 103 provides a lot of necessary information around 2k to 3.5 k and is very intense down to around 750Hz. The D112 offers nice detail in the low end and upper mid-range. This mic, really, captures all that great percussive, close proximity information (you know, when it sounds like, at any moment, the strings are gonna snap right off the guitar) that you would want from a killer guitar sound. I've never really experienced great results with an SM7 and this was just an arbitrary alternative. The D112 was sent to an API 312 followed by a Distressor at 3:1, Med attack and quick release. Hi Pass, Dist3, Stereo Link engaged...little attenuation. The 103 was sent to a 1272 followed, as well, by another Distressor at 4:1, faster attack and quick release, Hi Pass, Dist3, Stereo Link engaged...no more then 2db attenuation. These were then sent to the 192s into ProTools at 96/24. No Eq was used during the tracking and only during the mix did I roll the guitars off at 92Hz to allow the bass guitar to be revealed. Albeit, I enjoyed the low end (on the guitars) between 50 - 80 Hz, but the bass guitar had to be prevelent. I was still able to preserve a good bit of the beefiness in the low end, anyway. Paradoxically, this application is the best I have found for either of these mics. I guess I prefer to approach guitar tracking similar to that off a kick drum...does this make sense? It also, helps if you arrive early to a session just to allow the tubes in the amp to warm up for several hours before tracking. They work very well blended together...and is the initial intention anyway. Just thought I'd share. I went down today to take some recall photos before tomorrows session when I will again use this set-up. Of course, the humidity is now a bit lower, but what do you do? I'd be more than happy to post a sample of this technique if anyone is interested, but I don't want to hijack your thread. Here's a shot: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Stewart Cararas IMDB Discogs Myspace Facebook Studio Twitter _________________________________ The new is necessarily abstract - Rudolf Borchadt

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9th January 2005	#2
gomp Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 4	I like it! It's rocking. Wondering though if there is already a bass playing in the song. If so it's difficult to hear, if not you could be in trouble when mixing it together with the guitars. Good luck, Gomp

10th January 2005	#3
johnjm22 Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Barstow, CA Posts: 372 Thread Starter	No, theres no bass yet it's just guitar.

11th January 2005	#8
Nerve Nickels Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, New York Posts: 275	What tone ?

11th January 2005	#11
everybody's x Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kansas city Posts: 1,618	I like it alot!!

15th January 2005	#12
Jason Poulin Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sudbury, On. Canada Posts: 1,769	Good job! I love rectos : )) Jason

16th January 2005	#16
Atari Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 196	yes, please post a sample! dfegad just wanted to use this icon.. need to grow up

28th January 2005	#19
picksail Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 3,632	Boy, I guess I have successfully hi-jacked this thread. As an aside, regarding the aformentioned GTR set-up I decided to alter it a bit. With the 103 I changed the compressor to the ADL1000. This helped out a little on some of the grit imparted from the mic and really tapered the tail of the note significantly-the ADL clamped down and spit it out very quickly. No more than 1.5 to 2 db of gain reduction was ever applied. When I get a free moment I'll offer up another sample. This one has approximately 31 guitar tracks in the chorus section with a healthy amount of background and harmonized vocals. I was using this newly modified set-up on another song from the same artist and my studio partner stopped in during the tracking to take a listen. He was in utter disbelief that this set-up would work so well. He stepped over to the Vintech and flipped the phase-none to speak of. Although, I did opt to slide the tracks (13ms on the 103) a bit until they opended up and sounded the way I wanted. Anyway, just thought I'd share. Thanks for listening.