Song, Mix, Production Review?

[funkdrmr]

Hey everyone. I've been mixing on this song for a little while now and I feel like I'm stuck. I've done all the tracking, editing and mixing up to this stage with really no outside input.

I'm really not sure if it's missing something....maybe the gtrs need to come up? maybe the vocals should sit a little better? Does it just suck all around?

I'd really appreciate any input regarding the mix, production, or hell even the songwriting / structure (it's my own band, i'm the drummer).

Thanks in advance!

p.s. sorry about the 160kbps MP3...that's the highest rate I could attach to make the 6MB file limit.

edit: I forgot to mention one of my favorite things on this song! This is the first time I've ever tracked (in this case tracked & played) the drums and cymbals separate.....what a BLAST!

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by funkdrmr

Hey everyone. I've been mixing on this song for a little while now and I feel like I'm stuck. I've done all the tracking, editing and mixing up to this stage with really no outside input.

I'm really not sure if it's missing something....maybe the gtrs need to come up? maybe the vocals should sit a little better? Does it just suck all around?

I'd really appreciate any input regarding the mix, production, or hell even the songwriting / structure (it's my own band, i'm the drummer).

Thanks in advance!

p.s. sorry about the 160kbps MP3...that's the highest rate I could attach to make the 6MB file limit.

edit: I forgot to mention one of my favorite things on this song! This is the first time I've ever tracked (in this case tracked & played) the drums and cymbals separate.....what a BLAST!

Needs bigger drums!!! They also sound very compressed, what compressor did you use on them? Was there one across the mix buss?

[funkdrmr]

Originally Posted by Beyersound

Needs bigger drums!!! They also sound very compressed, what compressor did you use on them? Was there one across the mix buss?

While tracking the drums I didn't use any compression as I was kind of running back & forth setting levels, and playing. My g/f was pushing the big red button for me, so I kept it simple there.

In the mix, I'm using the SSL and V-Series plugins on the drums. You're correct that there is compression all over them. Especially the kik/snare. I also have the SSL Bus compressor plugin on the Drums bus, and then the SSL Bus compressor plugin is on the mix bus as well.

Guess I need to re-think my approach. I know I still have some room mics that aren't really in the mix because the room ended up being quite boomy (small room). Maybe I can EQ that out of the room mics, compress less of the drums and add more of the room and some verb into it?

Thanks for the input. Hope I get more today!

[opentune]

Cool tune! Good vocals!

Maybe you should play around with the room mic´s. I´m listening to the song
on small apeakers and there´s almost no drums except the snare.
Try to balance the drum channels while having the masters (your monitors)
turned down. The lower volume might help you noticing if something (the snare
for example) sticks out.

[funkdrmr]

Originally Posted by opentune

Cool tune! Good vocals!

Maybe you should play around with the room mic´s. I´m listening to the song
on small apeakers and there´s almost no drums except the snare.
Try to balance the drum channels while having the masters (your monitors)
turned down. The lower volume might help you noticing if something (the snare
for example) sticks out.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm really proud of his vocal performance this time around. Last song it took me a good while to "polish" him up (err....autotune). This time, we tracked late at night, had the mood right, and really just nailed it out take after take. I think all in all I only had to "polish" maybe 2 or 3 small things. Playing the psychological game to push him to hit the high "C" during the pre-chorus was a blast. I didn't have to touch it in post production at all!

I'm definitely gonna play with the drums this evening and I'll repost the clip. From the looks of both comments (which I GREATLY appreciate) I really need to revisit the drums and get something good going there. Can't wait to tear that apart when I get home from work today.

I'm really glad there haven't been any bad guitar comments....heavy guitars always seem to give me problems, but this time it seems to have come together a lot better for me (JCM2000 with Royer 121, 57, and U87 Room-mic into Chandler LTD-1's helped a lot too!)

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by funkdrmr

While tracking the drums I didn't use any compression as I was kind of running back & forth setting levels, and playing. My g/f was pushing the big red button for me, so I kept it simple there.

In the mix, I'm using the SSL and V-Series plugins on the drums. You're correct that there is compression all over them. Especially the kik/snare. I also have the SSL Bus compressor plugin on the Drums bus, and then the SSL Bus compressor plugin is on the mix bus as well.

Guess I need to re-think my approach. I know I still have some room mics that aren't really in the mix because the room ended up being quite boomy (small room). Maybe I can EQ that out of the room mics, compress less of the drums and add more of the room and some verb into it?

Thanks for the input. Hope I get more today!

You are getting the idea. What opentune said about hearing mostly snare is true. The kick needs more body and definition, not just attack and sub lows. It doesn't really speak along with the bass. The snare lacks ambience, part of that may be too much compression. The toms are very quiet, spread them out a bit, and turn them up! They are a lead instrument you know! I would try mixing with very light mix compression, if you have been going heavy with it, that could be what is shrinking the drums, and mix. My personal rule of thumb on kick compression is that I bring down the threshold until it the low end starts to shrink, then open it back up to where it is just full again. You will be amazed at what room mics can add, and a good bit of compression on them does wonders. A good reverb could also give that snare some width and depth. Good luck!

[Froombosch]

Good job :-) nice ideas

Drums could need some more definition/louder and there is a lack of midlow in my ears.... Snare is fat, but kick and toms are missing in power. And it sound like the compression is just to much. Abit oveer the top. you only need them for glue..

Vocals and guitars are very nice. on the end maybe a bit to wide... strings on the end sound great...

vocal note on 3.50 need a bit of tuning....

.. or maybe something different: try to make the voals and guitars a bit darker to blend better to the drums and bass.

Kind regards,


Harrie

[funkdrmr]

Thanks for the great feedback, everyone!

I had a HORRIBLE night last night. Went home to re-mix, and my crappy electricity surged THROUGH an APC UPS, through a surge protector and zapped my firepod. No joke....my firepod is now dead.

BUT, the show must go on and I should learn to deal with that I suppose, so I did a remix anyways using my laptop's soundcard and headphones.

I had to rush in to work today, so I ahven't gotten a CD burnt to check in my car. I know there's still some polishing to do on it, but hopefully I've gotten everything to blend a bit better. There's something wierd when the drums come in at the beginning....definitely gotta still fix that. Need to fade out better at the end too, I think.

Anyways...here's the attachment. Thanks again for all the feedback. Hope I get more!

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by funkdrmr

Thanks for the great feedback, everyone!

I had a HORRIBLE night last night. Went home to re-mix, and my crappy electricity surged THROUGH an APC UPS, through a surge protector and zapped my firepod. No joke....my firepod is now dead.

BUT, the show must go on and I should learn to deal with that I suppose, so I did a remix anyways using my laptop's soundcard and headphones.

I had to rush in to work today, so I ahven't gotten a CD burnt to check in my car. I know there's still some polishing to do on it, but hopefully I've gotten everything to blend a bit better. There's something wierd when the drums come in at the beginning....definitely gotta still fix that. Need to fade out better at the end too, I think.
Anyways...here's the attachment. Thanks again for all the feedback. Hope I get more!

Wow, I knew there was some tone buried somewhere in that snare! Huge overall mix improvement. Good job! Maybe a bit more eq work on the kick, then solo it together with the bass and work on them until they really speak as one. Many times we have a tendency to overcompress, it sounds like you really lightened up on it. Mix compression is especially touchy, better too little than too much! I hear a lot of people these days basically trying to mix a song with stereo buss compression instead of just using it to add a little glue to an already good mix. Great to hear the toms in the mix, you might want to try to soften up the upper mid/lower treble range of the guitars. It can make them sound bigger, and open up the vocal and snare a bit. A little short, slightly dark slap delay on the vocal might make it feel even better in the mix.

[funkdrmr]

Originally Posted by Beyersound

Wow, I knew there was some tone buried somewhere in that snare! Huge overall mix improvement. Good job! Maybe a bit more eq work on the kick, then solo it together with the bass and work on them until they really speak as one. Many times we have a tendency to overcompress, it sounds like you really lightened up on it. Mix compression is especially touchy, better too little than too much! I hear a lot of people these days basically trying to mix a song with stereo buss compression instead of just using it to add a little glue to an already good mix. Great to hear the toms in the mix, you might want to try to soften up the upper mid/lower treble range of the guitars. It can make them sound bigger, and open up the vocal and snare a bit. A little short, slightly dark slap delay on the vocal might make it feel even better in the mix.

Thanks again for the compliments and the help! After getting the feedback on the drums, I couldn't believe what I had been missing. I was so jaded over getting the snare sound together, and stoked about having good guitar tracks, that the rest was falling apart and I didn't even really hear it!

I can't even remember what I did with the last mix, as I've been tweaking on this next one for another 3-5 hours tonight.

For this one, I took mix buss compression completely off. Worked on the mids on the kik a little (steve slate's comment "don't be a pussy with EQ" comes to mind..lol) Brought the level of the kik down and I think it's sitting better now.

Played more with levels than EQ this time around, getting things to sit a little more even. I hope I'm getting "there" with it.

I worked out the snare drum issue at the beginning, and maybe a few other small editing things as well. Got creative in the pause between the last 2 notes and automated an EQ sweep on the feedback in that space....fun stuff.

Did some sort of a cheesy mastering job using Waves C4 and L2. The C4 really helped me tighten the bottom end up. I wasn't getting it on my headphones, but in my car and in my friends with subs it made a HUGE difference (in my novice opinion).

I REALLY appreciate the past opinions and suggestions....keep 'em coming!

[funkdrmr]

Sorry, forgot to ask a question & forgot to attach the mix in my last post.

Question: For the "slightly dark" delay, would you have any suggestions? I'm not very well versed in the different delays out there. I'm working ITB right now, but I'm open to hardware for future use as well.

Oh, and in typical "singer" fashion, our singer decided to change the name of the song last minute.....hence the different file name. Same song, different name.

Thanks again!

[opentune]

Wow, there´s the drums!

It´s nice to hear that mix evolves in huge steps! Keep up the good work!thumbsup

I guess that the "dark delay" for the vocals suggested by Beyersound is
nothing but a delay with a well tuned hi cut. Just play around with an EQ on
the delay return. But i better shut up - we´ll wait for Beyersound....

I agree on the guitars being a little too bright - they´re fighting with the
cymbals. Turning the higher range of the guitars down will help a lot (carefully,
just a little - so that the cymbals come out a little more).

Again, i think the tune has a great vocal track!

[funkdrmr]

Thanks, opentune, for both the suggestions and compliments. Your description of the delay makes sense to me now, but it's still something a little new to me. e

I'm glad you like the vocals. It was a lot of fun tracking them! On the main vox, I'm actually using an effect where the track is copied twice. 1st copy is pitched up 12 cents, 2nd copy pitched down 12cents. Add I think a 20ms delay with no feedback. With the pitched tracks panned hard right / left, bring them up underneath the main to taste.

I think later today I'll play with those high freq's on the guitars. I think I already filtered them down to 16KHz. The cymbals might actually be turned down too low.

I tracked drums and cymbals separately, so this very well could be the case.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by funkdrmr

Thanks, opentune, for both the suggestions and compliments. Your description of the delay makes sense to me now, but it's still something a little new to me. e

I'm glad you like the vocals. It was a lot of fun tracking them! On the main vox, I'm actually using an effect where the track is copied twice. 1st copy is pitched up 12 cents, 2nd copy pitched down 12cents. Add I think a 20ms delay with no feedback. With the pitched tracks panned hard right / left, bring them up underneath the main to taste.

I think later today I'll play with those high freq's on the guitars. I think I already filtered them down to 16KHz. The cymbals might actually be turned down too low.

I tracked drums and cymbals separately, so this very well could be the case.

Now the kick and bass are talkin! Maybe mellow out the point of the kick just a little (it's a bit Metallica-ish), but you are definitely in the ballpark. I would let the snare be a bit more ringy, it was good like that in the last mix. Be careful that you don't lose the vocal now, it is a bit low. When you get the guitars eqed better that will improve. Opentune is correct about the delay I mentioned, you want to low pass it around 5k-6.3k to keep it warm and non sibilant. I'm glad to hear you pulled back the mix comp, check out the Mike Shipley threads from a couple years ago, he uses a good bit of individual track compression, but no mix 2 buss compression. He can definitely mix a just a little!