Critique my pop/rock demo!

[dawnfirst]

Hey guys,
Just finished my third ever attemp at a proper full band demo/single
(call it what you will)

Would really like some feedback from you people...

Recorded ITB on a projectmix, sm57, rode nt2a, and programmed
drums (Strike)

You can download the attachment, or check it out at
MySpace.com - Simple Day (TWO New Songs Up!!!!!!) - Auckland, NZ - Pop Punk / Powerpop / Rock - www.myspace.com/simpleday
(the songs called 'Ladies and Gentlemen')



Any constructive feedback would be great, including any obvious gear limitations you can hear, and things I can do to improve.


Thanks heaps,


-Mike

[Todd]

sounds very dated. Its a bit mixed up sounding. When it starts off,
it sounds like 80's metal ala "Poison" or something.
Then i sorta get what you're going for. Kind of a "All American Rejects"
sorta vibe. But you have more of a hair metal guitar tone going,
which, for me, doesnt work to well.
I think where this mainly falls short is the drums. One could blame
alot of it on the hard quantizing, but i dont think that's necesarily the
case here.
The drums can be hard quantized, and work really well.
However, there are things that need to be there to make that work.
One big one is, very tasteful programing. You're programing falls
a bit short. Ok, im trying not to be too harsh, but,, alot short.

Alot of the parts seem like what one might find built
in to a drum machine or stock midi files that came bundled with a drum virtual instrument. Pretty cheezy. Sorry, just being honest with ya. Some of its really good, but then other parts are
way off. Like the very begining snare roll is good, but then the first drum pattern
when the song kicks in is no good. Especially the hi hat velocities which i'll get to
in a minute.
I suggest listening alot more intently to drum parts on your favorite
records, and copying them for practice. Hang out with a drummer.
Go to live shows, and watch the drummer.
I think you'll find, on the type of song you're doing here, Simple is better.
Check out the drumming on "Dirty Little Secret" for instance. Its similar
to your tune, but listen to how much more simple the drum parts are.

Lack of velocity changes would be the next issue to be fixed.
Almost all of the Kick, Snare, hat, Ride parts have "machine gun" effect
going, which is a direct result of using the same velocity layer to play
succesive 8th and 16th notes. This absolutely Screams "drum machine"
There's a ride cymbal figure in there that is especially jacked.

Next would be , the "sound" of the drums. They sound small, and thin.
They need some pretty big time EQ'ing and compression.
They're not horrible by any means, but they need more impact in my opinion.

ANd last, but certainly not least, the playing of the guitars and bass.
There is an art to playing with a drum sequence, and making it groove.
This is a very important aspect, and not easy to explain here.
I'll just say, you have to be super aware of this, and try to focus
on being much tighter with the drums. Your guitars are really "rushed",
and it destroys the groove.
Work to find that "pocket" of the groove. Its there. Even with a hard
quantized drum sequence.
Realize that, TONS and TONS of tunes like this, that you hear on
the radio everyday, are quantized drums. Maybe not completely
hard quantized, but mostly.
Most of what you're hearing today, may start, yes, with a real drummer,
BUT, the kick and snare are almost always "sound replaced" using,
you guessed it "Sound Replacer" or "Drumagog", and are then, edited
to be very close to hard quantized. They may leave a bit of push and
pull in there, but for the most part, they are fairly "perfect".

many noob drum sequencers tend to manually offset the kick
and snare a bit "off" the grid, a little here, and a little there.
But unless you're really familiar with how to make a groove push
and pull= where EXACTLY to be late with a snare, or early with a kick,
its best to not touch them at all, cause it just ends up sounding "off"
and/or Sloppy. This is one of those little things that will give you
an "ametuer'ish" sound. Not good

I hope i wasnt too terribly harsh here. Im really just trying to help
you out. I went through the same thing when i started doing all
this stuff.
So just keep working and rocking hard man!! I hear alot of potential,
and you can bet, i wouldnt have taken the time to write all this, if
i didnt think you have talent and potential. Belee' dat homey!

Best of luck, and keep posting mixes!!
TK

[dawnfirst]

Thanks mate,
I must admit I hadn't paid much attention to the programming,
was just trying to get an 'overall' sound...

Your feedback is really helpful...
If you hadn't of said it, I wouldn't have really thought about it



I think listening to other drummers more carefully from now on is
gonna be my next mission, as for the velocities and stuff, yeah,
your totally right, especially the hats and ride...

As for the guitar tone, thats the tone I play with live,
But as above, something i've never thought about before,
so will try doing some a/b tests with similar music, try see
if I cant improve on it.



I'll definitely post up my next mix once its done,
see if I cant improve on this one.

Thanks again man,
your feedback rocks, its
much appreciated!


-Mike

[diatonic]

...

[drakewire]

while i rarely comment on Myspace music since it is squashed quality.
The above posters gave some really good feedback but I want to comment more on originality than the mixes. These are over produced and squashed mixes, the drums are lacking definition and sparkle.

Now lets talk about who you sound like, Jimmy Eat World with a mixture of all the band boy groups Cute is What we Aim for, Panic at the Disco, etc. If I were you I would get these mixes professionally mixed and mastered and then go send them off to Drive thru then to Fueled by Ramen...

They are catchy... Not really original, but catchy

[dantheman65]

Yeah I think the song itself shows potential but the instruments are a bit lacking. The guitars are a bit overbearing on my end and the timing seems to wander, though I'm sure the click is at a constant tempo.

[dawnfirst]

Originally Posted by diatonic

I liked the tune and the performance. The two things that stood out to me were the balance and the timing. The timing did not feel locked in. Sometimes it was fills like 1:00 and other times the vocals seemed to move away from the pocket. The mix sounded slammed through a limiter. I was missing some of the body between 300 and 750 hz. I've made this comment on another tune before so maybe this reflects my own listening setup. When I tamed the bass below 70 hz and did a very broad bump at 500 hz it sounded better on my system. I liked the song, thanks for sharing.

Thanks for your feedback,
Your right about the vocals not having the greatest timing ever...
our singer tends to have trouble keeping consistent time, and even
with editing, it can be hard to get it perfect...and as for limiting,
yeah I totally slammed the hell out of it...
Would you not have slammed it too?
It unfortunately seems to be the thing to do these days


As for the frequencys, you could very well be right...
I played the mix on my tv setup, and it was pretty boomy.
I think i'll do those frequency changes you suggested and
test it out.

Thanks again mate

[dawnfirst]

Originally Posted by dantheman65

Yeah I think the song itself shows potential but the instruments are a bit lacking. The guitars are a bit overbearing on my end and the timing seems to wander, though I'm sure the click is at a constant tempo.

Point taken on the timing...
I did the bass first (Only had access to an amp for a weekend),
then programmed the drums, then did guitars...
maybe that was part of the problem....
cheers mate

[dawnfirst]

Originally Posted by drakewire

while i rarely comment on Myspace music since it is squashed quality.
The above posters gave some really good feedback but I want to comment more on originality than the mixes. These are over produced and squashed mixes, the drums are lacking definition and sparkle.

Now lets talk about who you sound like, Jimmy Eat World with a mixture of all the band boy groups Cute is What we Aim for, Panic at the Disco, etc. If I were you I would get these mixes professionally mixed and mastered and then go send them off to Drive thru then to Fueled by Ramen...

They are catchy... Not really original, but catchy

Hey, thanks for your thoughts


Was wondering what you meant by 'over produced'?
You are very right about the drums lacking life and soul,
I totally agree, hopefully I can get it better next time...

We are saving up to do some more studio recordings, just
checked out fueld by ramen and drive throughs websites, looks
pretty cool...

thanks for the advice mate

-Mike

[drakewire]

Hmm By Over produced, I meant "Is this what we can expect from a live show". If so, you are in the awesome factor, if not, we'll need to address toning certain things down... I really think your sound is stellar, I think the mixes are great, I would of preferred certain changes to some stuff but everything is pretty good, I would really recommend a proper mastering session with some great ears to give you guys a great sound...

I was serious, get your stuff to these people... they will love you, if not send to Fearless Records, Mike will want to see a million plays on myspace but you guys have "the sound"

[dawnfirst]

Originally Posted by drakewire

Hmm By Over produced, I meant "Is this what we can expect from a live show". If so, you are in the awesome factor, if not, we'll need to address toning certain things down... I really think your sound is stellar, I think the mixes are great, I would of preferred certain changes to some stuff but everything is pretty good, I would really recommend a proper mastering session with some great ears to give you guys a great sound...

I was serious, get your stuff to these people... they will love you, if not send to Fearless Records, Mike will want to see a million plays on myspace but you guys have "the sound"

Yeah I hear ya as far as the production goes...
Our live show isn't quite that sound, but we're thinking off adding in some sly samples here and there so we shouldn't be too far off


And your right once again about mastering....
Once I get the mixes to a stage i'm happy with, i'll get them properly
mastered and go from there.


Dude thanks heaps for your kind words, i'll definitely get some songs off
to those labels...It cant hurt to send a cd i suppose.


Thanks!!!



-Mike

[CaptainHook]

Hey Mike,

Still haven't listened to this at the studio yet, sorry man.
Will do soon and i'll give you a text or whatever.

Maybe on a day off from the Falter album you can come down
and we'll go through it together to see if we can take it further.

Seeya mate.

[dawnfirst]

Thanks man,
sounds good!

[ScottTunes]

As a simple reminder, you should make contact with the labels first, and ask if you can send your material to them. Otherwise, your likely to be tossed into the circular file.

[dawnfirst]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

As a simple reminder, you should make contact with the labels first, and ask if you can send your material to them. Otherwise, your likely to be tossed into the circular file.

Thats probably not a bad idea,
will do.