Is this too rough to mix?

[bobwarren]

I'm considering mixing a CD for a friend. I usually put up the faders at zero and have a listen and usually it sounds like a decent arrangemant. I got a lot of clipping at the stereo bus so I pulled it back about 50% and there is still clipping in the vocals. There are a total of 41 tracks. The artist tracked at a semi-pro facility. Is this what most of you guys hear when starting a mix?

Whoops! Forgot to add MP3...

[bobwarren]

Here it is again without the vocal...

[Zeppelin]

Are the vocals clipping when solo'd?
If they're not it should be ok. Though you could always use some samples on the drums

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by bobwarren

Is this what most of you guys hear when starting a mix?

Never.

Are you in a DAW? Sounds like you're hitting your Master Fader really, really hard.

Let me guess.... they "normalized" all the tracks or something. This thing sounds like it's currently pegged at digital 0.

Well, you're in a much better position to tell if this stuff is salvageable than the rest of us are. Did you hear any of the rough mixes yet? Did they sound like this? I would find that hard to imagine. If the tracks aren't all clipped individually, it'll probably take a few more minutes to get the gain-staging acceptable. Listen again when you're not clipping your output and take it from there.

[diatonic]

...

[drakewire]

No.... This is not a normal mix... Everything is badly distorting.... Everything needs to be re-tracked... Sure you might try using some plugs to dull it down but, it will still be a very bad mix because it wasnt tracked right... But GOOD LUCK

[bobwarren]

Thanks for all of the replies. I hate it when someone pays good money to track and get inferior audio in return. The bass was distorted beyond repair. My friend said she questioned the engineer about it, and he replied we'll EQ and use plug-ins to fix it later. The same response was issued for the control room bleed into the lead vocal, the horrible hi hat sound, and he said there was no need to double lead vocals or guitar tracks 'cause he could simply copy and paste. Uuuugh!!!

[The Kamillion]

tell me what studio that is so I can never send anybody there...

[bobwarren]

No. Bob Warren, the Dumber!

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by The Kamillion

tell me what studio that is so I can never send anybody there...

agreed. honestly, the guy who recorded that cannot call himself a pro,even if the talent was less than par. it's just poorly recorded all way round. that girl should get her money back.

[diatonic]

...

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by bobwarren

No. Bob Warren, the Dumber!

LOL!!! Awesome

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by bobwarren

Here it is again without the vocal...

All faders up @ 0db? Could use a longer audio example but...

No. Sounds like nothing I track with all faders at unity... there's usually a "musical" balance happening that already sounds somewhat mixed.

Doesn't mean it might not be workable though... who knows...

[drakewire]

I guess you could, but you'd have to lower all the levels cut off all the distortion then liven them up with plugs... The end result in my own opinion would still not be great.... Not to mention we are talking alot alot of work here....
Best is always tracking it right the first time

[bobwarren]

Originally Posted by diatonic

Can you post some unprocessed wav tracks of the original bass and vocals, outside of your mix without re-rendering what the studio sent you?

I'd like you pay pay attention to the control room bleed on the vocal mix and give me some suggestions to correct. The bass is distorted at some peaks, so I'll need some suggestions there also. Vocals usually have bleed from the head phones, but I hear talking and a lot of low end from the other side of the glass...

[diatonic]

...

[bobwarren]

Yeah, I know of the usual tactics to repair tracks. I'm looking for some fresh, new, or innovative ways to do this. Some things I usually do is gate the bass or side chain it to trigger say a sub-sytnth track. Waves has some de-noise plugs I can use to remove some distortion, but again, it compromises the tone as a whole. The lead vocal I will gate but there is talking over the track from the control room so special care is going to be needed to keep it from being apparent after compression, if I compress at all.

I am becoming more aware of the way people are tracking with there eyes and not there ears. If the waveform looks cool, keeping recording. The mind-set that you can fix it later in the comuter is a crutch and I'd rather walk proudly of the tracks I've recorded.

[bobwarren]

I've got it all sounding half way decent cause I replaced kick and snare with samples and chucked the hats and tom tracks. The mix sounds good at lower volumes, but when I crank it, it breaks up. I really don't want to compress the crap out of it if I don't have to. I don't like the guitars at all.

[mobaudio]

The new mp3 sounds WAY better, man.

I spent a few years just fixing tracks recorded by other people; usually on a Roland or Yamaha all-in-one box manned by the guitar player. It's a good learning experience. You get your editing chops together as well as finding new and exciting ways to track (or, more often, NOT track) instruments.

For some reason, the Acoustic Mirror plug-in that comes with Sound Forge can remove digital clipping, if you use some of the mic models. Really. It suprised the hell out of me, too. You know that inverting waveform clipping that sounds like your eardrums were raped with a razorblade? Gone. I've no idea why. But it's hella useful.

If the bass is REALLY bad, I'd just re-track it. Figure out the hours you're gonna spend trying to fix it vs. the hours you'd spend just flat out replacing it. For me, the time tends to even out; and with the replacement track you wind up with better raw material.

I

[drakewire]

It sounds better but c'mon! Whats the point to all the hard work... Why not just re-track? This now sounds a live performance with very little balance... Mind you I think you have come leaps and bounds to clean this mix up, but at the end it just seems like were throwing rocks into an ocean expecting to make a huge splash

[bobwarren]

I'm meeting tonight to discuss tracking it over. I'll do it pretty cheap. I'll probably dump the money back into some more preamps. I think I'm interested in the new Avedis neve-ish red things and some Germs for my 500 rack. Did I see an MC77 in a 500 form? Hmmm...

Anyhoo, I summed through an analog console and I love the results considering what I had to work with. It's funny how someone gets a bunch of cheap LDC and SDC mics from China and an M-Box and now they can charge big bucks for studio time. Not knocking equipment, but sub-par eqipment in the hands of mere mortals is pretty ugly.

Here's a listen to a rough mix through the 32 channel analog:

[pikapikapi]

Whats your vocal chain for this song?

[bobwarren]

I don't know what mic or mic pre was used, but I know it wasn't a decent one and I know they didn't track with a compressor. It sounded like a Marshall LDC. The double vocal was close, but I would have tracked it closer. All I have is a little EQ and a Neve 2254 plug in the track with a tiny amount of delay.