Advice/opinions on R&B mix I'm working on? (song attached)

[coyotekells]

Hi folks,

I'd like any advice/critique/comments, etc. regarding the mix I'm doing on this song (attached).

Bare in mind, the vocals are recorded on a sub $100 pre and relatively inexpensive Alesis mic. I'm working entirely ITB, using Logic 7 with a few Waves plugs as well. It's not an ideal world, I just want to do what I can.

Particularly, I'd like to make the vocals "sharper" and cleaner sounding.. really cut, you know? Unfortunately, a good part of their character is the performance (slightly "smokey" sound) and the mic placement and mic/pre combo. I can't change those things.

What are your EQ tips though to push a little bitch in that direction? Right now I've taken off some lows, added some 3k and some air in the real highs..

This song is going on a fairly large run promo CD tomorrow (maybe Tuesday if I really suck). It's going on in whatever condition I can accomplish in that time.. lol. Wish me luck & thanks for checkin it out and offering opinions..

[digiman]

Nice work. Decent production and mixing, I must say. Dude, with what you're working with, from a vocal perspective I think you've got WAY more out of those pieces of gear than anyone could hope for. Anything else you try to do with what you have is going to be overproducing or overmixing IMO. My only comment would be I would add some kind of cymbal swell/reverse cymbal or small crash at the end of every 4 bars to make the hooks distinctive and to keep the verses from becoming mundance. Just a little sprinkles of accents to keep the listener's attention. Additionally, I might add another track of some light guitar licks over top of the whole note strums you already have to keep things moving and interesting. Again, that's just me. It's your track and you know what they say about opinions. Other than that, I think you nailed it. Especially good job of sound management with drums and giving everything its own space. Alot of that has to do with the arrangement, as opposed to mixing. Good job and good luck on this one.

[jordanh]

what pre are you using? you really pushed it if its any of the sub $100 pres ive heard...

[KBOY]

I think the song sounds great! good work. But I think I can hear what your saying about the vox.

They are kind of um.... well...... There. ;) they are not grabbing me as much as the track is. Could be cheap pre's, could be a cheap mic. But I bet with a little good compression on the center vocal getting it to bite just a little bit would help. Get it to sit more intimate and in your face, but not sounding tooooo aggressive . I'd personally take the 3k thing off and compress it with an 1176 first, then insert an eq and adjust to taste, then finish it off with an La2a. I wanna hear his breaths..... just not too much. Then I'd probably put a really tight plate on the lead and stick it so far back that you can't hear it but if you mute it you'll miss it.

Back ground vox..... A little smoothing tube compression on the group track. Shelving some lows out of em, and putting another slightly longer plate on them and shoving it way far back as well.

But overall it sounds slammin!

Oh, you could do a parallel compression thing on the lead vocals as well which might keep some of the dynamics but allow you to automate the aggression of the crushed version in and out. Allowing you to have more control over the breathing aspect.

[MERC476]

Can't say much about the sound quality cause i'm hearing it through my little speakers on my monitor right now but the song itself sounds really good. I like i like........

[coyotekells]

Digiman,

I like your ideas and agree with what you're saying. I might try the rev cymbal if I can get into the studio today... the guitar part (along with all other instruments you hear) were carefully programmed in MIDI (no samples, and no live players). So "noodling" between the strums gets a lil hard when trying to keep it real sounding.. i do know that part can get a touch bland and repetative tho :/

what pre are you using? you really pushed it if its any of the sub $100 pres ive heard...

It's the Rane MS1b -- I read really good reviews and thought I'd try it... seems pretty impressive for $80 or whatever it cost me.

KBOY, thanks for the detailed suggestions!! Sadly (it makes me very upset actually) I think the song will be going out in nearly the same incarnation you hear here...However, it will certainly be mixed better when the CD drops and I'm very grateful for your feedback (I will consider those technique when doing other songs like this as well).

Glad you're all liking the song itself, too!

[digiman]

Originally Posted by St. Kelly

Digiman,

I like your ideas and agree with what you're saying. I might try the rev cymbal if I can get into the studio today... the guitar part (along with all other instruments you hear) were carefully programmed in MIDI (no samples, and no live players). So "noodling" between the strums gets a lil hard when trying to keep it real sounding.. i do know that part can get a touch bland and repetative tho :/

!

What did you use for the guitar strum? Something on the Motif or another workstation? Whatever you did, it sounds VERY convincing. I thought for sure that was a real Strat!!! I can usually tell a midi guitar vs. the real thing. You sho fooled me....As far as noodling, you did a really good job right before the first verse comes in with a few little licks before the vocals came in. A little more just like that sprinkled in the verses here and I think you'd have it nailed. In fact, you could probably cut and past what you have there. Just my .02. But again, the track is dope! Good work.

And you did say you tracked and mixed this all in Logic? If so, that's another plug for Logic 8 for those on the fence....

[amd]

Sounds good.

[feedback711]

i love it kid. keep dooin ya thing son.

[coyotekells]

What did you use for the guitar strum? Something on the Motif or another workstation? Whatever you did, it sounds VERY convincing.

Thanks.. like I said, all in the box with Logic 7. The multisampled guitar is from i don't know where, some generic Akai CD-ROM. The patch was about 40MBs (good quality, but a high quality one is more like 200MBs+)

Next, I very meticulously programmed the parts. it takes time, even for the simple simple things like this. playing it as it would actually be on the guitar is the trick tho...which is weird, cause you're using a keyboard/step edit

Once that's sounding convincing, I load up Logic's internal "Guitar Amp Modeler" plugin (there are many other VST/AU/RTAS options as well, but I keep it simple)

Find me a nice preset, and tweak it accordingly...

[yungace07]

good job

sounds great in my opinion!

good to know that just with some waves plugs you can have that sort of outcome becuz thats all i got haha
not to mention some antares plugs and a few others

great work on the mix though keep it up!

[obostic]

Great job! Just one small small thing, you need to squeeze the overall mix a little for some added intensity and that'll also make it sound like a finished record.

Try putting a compressor on the two buss with the following settings and work from there:

Ratio:2:1
Attack: Really Slow
Release: Auto or somewhat fast
Threshold: to where you are only reducing between 2 to 4 dBs.

Good Luck!

[mr jkn]

Great stuff!

Have some ideas about the production. Why not make the "Reason-esque" two tone flute-hook the travels through the song a bit more grungier. It would be a nice contrast to the smooth electric piano and the overall "gentle" sounding mix. Maybe not distort it, but give it attitude with some heavy eq:ing to make it sound like it was played through the telephone. Just a crazy idea..

And, growing up on "grimey" british dancemusic I would like to here some drops of deep sub bass. Not everywhere - but to make the track sound more "horny".

..just some suggestion - they may suck in the real world mix though.

[E-Irizarry]

Sounds convincingly professionally like that cat got a deal already.
Productionwise, it's got late 90s R. Kelly written all over it type of style.
Reminds me of the the drumkits he used on Sparkle's self-titled debut.

It's a tight together song sonically, but my only peeve is that sounds typical and a bit dated. The rap that spitted is ok. But yeah the production needs more segue hi-hat/crashes that throw the listener back into the song like "yeah, n*$ga" so that it doesnt' sound as looped and doesnt' sound "lazy".

And bedtrack/instrumental needs "silence drop outs" every now and then to keep the listener listening, yes?

One,

izzy =)

[coyotekells]

KBOY,

Thx for the detailed suggestions around my main question (vocal sound - and getting it to cut a lil more.. it's too smokey for my liking)


Everyone else who contributed sequencing and general production suggestions, also thank you!! And I feel for the most part that people are saying is on point, and makes good sense

There definitely seems to be a general consensus about adding some reversed crashes, drops of silence, etc. to keep more movement/interest in the track, so it doesn't seem too looped and "lazy" (good choice of words, Iriz)