Jules' Sex Pistols / Foo Fighters guitar / kick sidechain trick

Jules · 22nd April 2004

Here is a production where I grouped the guitars and bass and made the kick drum 'kick them all in the throat' - via a compressor across that group triggered by the kick drum.

I did this to get a 'car stereo / PA system flipping out' type of sound. I find I am kind of obssesed with the Sex Pistols sound, ala "Holidays in the Sun"

I kinda over did it.... kar-azee I guess!

But I still like it! Especially in the chorus's

Band is called The Dopamine Theory, (looking for a deal, manager etc)

e-cue · 22nd April 2004

Gie-Sound · 22nd April 2004

How much GR is there on every Kick-hit

?

rlnyc · 22nd April 2004

ah, ducking. one of my all time favorite audio production devices. a real lost art, like creative gating.

--rl,nyc

Jules · 22nd April 2004

2-4 db say at 9:1 ratio
Fast attack (tune to the tempo of the song)
Fast release (tune to the tempo of the song)

In PT

Waves C1
Sony
McDSP compressorbank

Can all do it well

In the analog world

Drawmer 231
BSS 401 (?)
Beheringer Composer

Are good for the task..

Gie-Sound · 22nd April 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Jules
2-4 db say at 9:1 ratio
Fast attack (tune to the tempo of the song)
Fast release (tune to the tempo of the song)

In PT

Waves C1
Sony
McDSP compressorbank

Can all do it well

In the analog world

Drawmer 231
BSS 401 (?)
Beheringer Composer

Are good for the task..

ThanX

But personally I would'n like to run my Guitars+Bass through a Behringer Composer... Or is that just me?

Jules · 22nd April 2004

Well it WAS last on the list!

However...... not that it is any sort of stamp of quality, but I used one for about 3 years for just this task... worked fine..

I also ran an uncopressed group on the board so the signal only 'half' was via the Beheringer...

Gie-Sound · 22nd April 2004

mitgong · 23rd April 2004

jeez, Jules. You're pretty good at this. The kick trigger example is very illuminating.

RichT · 25th April 2004

Sounds great!

I don't think you overdid it either, it really pumps.

Cheers,
Rich

Jules · 25th April 2004

I think in future I will make a point to 'automate / ride' the send to the compressor sidechain!

jbuntz · 25th April 2004

That is cool! It gives the impression that it's really cranked without having the 2-mix pump.

Ruudman · 25th April 2004

Keep on Jules, never mind the bollocks

ruudman

jbuntz · 26th April 2004

I just tried this on a song I was mixing yesterday that I thought would work with this trick. It sounded boring by comparison when I bypassed it. Plus it cleared a little room in the busy mix.

Mazaga · 27th April 2004

I also use this but in my case the kick was compressing all the band except for the lead vocal and some FX...
Worked fine... and once everything was compressed it put the vocal out of the band

5 dB of comp with R-Compressor
threshold=-18
ratio=5/1
adjust output gain to taste

mazaga

Jules · 27th April 2004

rock on Pistoleros!

We dont need no steenking badges!

LAMF

Mazaga · 27th April 2004

"MAMA TAKE THESE BADGES FROM ME....
I CAN´T USE THEM ANYMORE...
FELL LIKE KNOCKIN ON HEAVEN´S DOOR..."

this topic is sure to be a good one for new thread...

mazaga

shapemod · 30th April 2004

Jules,
sounds pretty good, man, not just the sidechain compression.
How did you recorded/mixed the track?
shapemod

5down1up · 8th May 2004

very nice ... rocknroll

jagarinec · 13th May 2004

jules

this is really pumpin. i like the song very much and the tracking/mixing too.

although the ducking is cool the guitars seem chopped to me. the sustain of the chords are ducked too far for me. if the guitars would have been played more staccato perhaps i didn´t realize it at all, but in this case the chord have sustains over some few kick hits. hm.

but for people they like the kick most i guess its great

its really interesting what happens when the kick got the whole 16 bit to expand to its full possible dynamic range

are there more songs to hear from this band?

jagarinec · 13th May 2004

BTW: why didn´t you use the STC-8 for that job?

Jules · 13th May 2004

STC-8 was occupied on the mix bus...

Shapemod - I just used the whole studio on em!

shapemod · 13th May 2004

I see, I thought it was an other Jules because there was no picture of you on this thread and stuff.
Very nice Gearslutz dinner in Berlin, by the way, was good taking to you and all the other guys(especially Dave Derr, the father of my beloved Distressors!)
Thanks for this forum!

shapemod
(sebastian)

Curve Dominant · 15th May 2004

Fuh - kin - A !!!

Gotta try that trick yo.

TheReal7 · 17th May 2004

This is way cool....I will be giving this a try. Great work Jules.

Stick · 19th May 2004

I've been doing that ducker trick with Kick and Snare... not super durastic (1-3 db), and leaving the bass (sometimes) and vocals outside it. Good glue factor.

Also ITB, I trigger the sidechain with duplicate kick and snare tracks nudged forward a little so that the duck happens right as the kick or snare hits... not a little after... tightens it up a bit.

ROCK 'N ROLL BABY!

jbuntz · 19th May 2004

I just heard this trick on a tool album.

TheReal7 · 19th May 2004

Yes this trick is awesome. Applies this to my latest mix, and even though the mix was good, I now think it a great. Thanks.

djui5 · 20th May 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by jbuntz
I just heard this trick on a tool album.

Undertow....right?

genericperson · 7th June 2004

sounds great. the "right idea" for this track.

how do you sidechain-duck inside the daw?

22nd April 2004	#3
Gie-Sound Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Netherlands (yes that's the country surrounding Amsterdam!) Posts: 477	How much GR is there on every Kick-hit?

23rd April 2004	#9
mitgong Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ITHACA, NY Posts: 387	jeez, Jules. You're pretty good at this. The kick trigger example is very illuminating. __________________ Get back to work! http://scaramangaindustries.com/

25th April 2004	#10
RichT Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 1,469	Sounds great! I don't think you overdid it either, it really pumps. Cheers, Rich __________________ www.oldblacksmiths.com www.myspace.com/theoldblacksmiths

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22nd April 2004	#2
e-cue Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 4,061

22nd April 2004	#4
rlnyc Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NY Posts: 346	ah, ducking. one of my all time favorite audio production devices. a real lost art, like creative gating. --rl,nyc

22nd April 2004	#5
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,356 Thread Starter 1 Review written	2-4 db say at 9:1 ratio Fast attack (tune to the tempo of the song) Fast release (tune to the tempo of the song) In PT Waves C1 Sony McDSP compressorbank Can all do it well In the analog world Drawmer 231 BSS 401 (?) Beheringer Composer Are good for the task..

25th April 2004	#12
jbuntz Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716	That is cool! It gives the impression that it's really cranked without having the 2-mix pump.

25th April 2004	#13
Ruudman Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 3,079	Keep on Jules, never mind the bollocks ruudman

26th April 2004	#14
jbuntz Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716	I just tried this on a song I was mixing yesterday that I thought would work with this trick. It sounded boring by comparison when I bypassed it. Plus it cleared a little room in the busy mix.

27th April 2004	#15
Mazaga Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 194	I also use this but in my case the kick was compressing all the band except for the lead vocal and some FX... Worked fine... and once everything was compressed it put the vocal out of the band 5 dB of comp with R-Compressor threshold=-18 ratio=5/1 adjust output gain to taste mazaga

30th April 2004	#18
shapemod Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Berlin Posts: 147	Jules, sounds pretty good, man, not just the sidechain compression. How did you recorded/mixed the track? shapemod

8th May 2004	#19
5down1up Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 1,989	very nice ... rocknroll

13th May 2004	#20
jagarinec Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 91	jules this is really pumpin. i like the song very much and the tracking/mixing too. although the ducking is cool the guitars seem chopped to me. the sustain of the chords are ducked too far for me. if the guitars would have been played more staccato perhaps i didn´t realize it at all, but in this case the chord have sustains over some few kick hits. hm. but for people they like the kick most i guess its great its really interesting what happens when the kick got the whole 16 bit to expand to its full possible dynamic range are there more songs to hear from this band?

15th May 2004	#24
Curve Dominant Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Control Room Posts: 1,949	Fuh - kin - A !!! Gotta try that trick yo.

19th May 2004	#26
Stick Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 677	I've been doing that ducker trick with Kick and Snare... not super durastic (1-3 db), and leaving the bass (sometimes) and vocals outside it. Good glue factor. Also ITB, I trigger the sidechain with duplicate kick and snare tracks nudged forward a little so that the duck happens right as the kick or snare hits... not a little after... tightens it up a bit. ROCK 'N ROLL BABY!

19th May 2004	#28
TheReal7 Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In The Woods, Canada Posts: 775	Yes this trick is awesome. Applies this to my latest mix, and even though the mix was good, I now think it a great. Thanks.

7th June 2004	#30
genericperson Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 521	sounds great. the "right idea" for this track. how do you sidechain-duck inside the daw?