does it suck or not?

rynugz007 · 20th April 2004

this was mixed "in the box" with cubase sx2. The only mastering is a psp vintage warmer on the stereo bus just to get it louder. What do you think?

faeflora · 20th April 2004

It needs a lot of work.

Firstly, the vintage warmer is killing the mix. I can hear it pumping and sucking.

The drums don't sound well tracked. The snare sounds kinda tubby and the cymbals are harsh.

The vocals need level adjustments or less or more compression and aren't loud enough.

Keep working at it!

rynugz007 · 20th April 2004

funny, people have been saying the vocals are too loud then someone else says not loud enough. Someone mentioned the snare sounds thin now its too tubby. I guess its just a taste thing. I appreciate the suggestions none the less.

Im not a mastering engineer. The closest thing to a mastering tool i have is the vintage warmer. I would really like to send this tune out to get mastered, in that case i would eliminate the vintage warmer all together. I dont think the band wants to spend that kinda money right now.

cdog · 20th April 2004

There are some cool elements to the mix (effecty backgound vox) but the drums are quite anemic sounding. The snare is being choked by compression. Where is the kick?

Try getting a really good natural sounding mix balance before mucking it up with eq, compression and fx.

When you stand in a room with a band the drums are banginly present - get them there in the mix, then back down a hair.

JKL · 23rd April 2004

Like the track. I agree that the snare sound is obviously waaaay over compressed. In fact, the sound of the snare is exactly the sound I get when I smash a snare mult to blend in with the unsmashed snare. You might try mixing that sound in with an uneffected snare mult. If you could open up the drum sound in general, I think the whole track would take on another (and better) life/sound. Not sure if you're running the whole kit, or just the snare through that compressor, but the snare is taking a drastic hit. The track in general sounds a bit muffled, but like I said, unveiling a component (drums in this case) can have a profound effect on how the whole track is percieved. Just listened again. I think the comments on the vintage warmer have merit. It's making the mix sound a bit dull. I'm not sure about the "tubby" snare comment. The snare is being killed before it even gets a chance to be tubby. In my opinion, you need to open up the drums, and maybe consider using a different plug to make the track louder. Even with that plugin on the master, the mix is not very loud at all. I think this track could sound fabulous with a few major tweaks (untweaks?).

Jon

rynugz007 · 23rd April 2004

thanks for all the comments everyone. I totally agree that the snare is too squashed. I did track the snare with a snid bit of compression. Theres also compression on the drum group. I'll try some different things.

Beezoboy · 24th April 2004

What I hear is the lack of high end on this mix. The voice sounds pretty good, but the guitars and drums are missing highend. It really makes them sound mucked up and dull. I also think the drums are way too far back in the mix.

Just curious, what are you monitoring on. I would assume something midrangy and harsh in the highs. Anyway its a good song, I think it would fit in with the stuff out today, and it seems well produced as far as arrangement goes.

If you can't get this where you want it sonically, I'd love to take a crack at it.

Beez

Jules · 24th April 2004

Well thats nice! A remix offer!

jbuntz · 25th April 2004

I think it's a good mix excluding the drums which a lot of which unfortunately has to do with tracking. To me the snare sounds like it's got a taped head or the head is too thick and/or the attack overly enhanced with a compressor so it's turned into the sound of a pencil hitting a table. Also if you had access to a nice room, room sound would give you some size. Overheads are a bit funky sounding to me. Sounds like they are thick cymbals through cheap AKG condensors through a mackie pre or something....kind of a bandpassed sound. Thinner cymabls aren't so loud and you can get a bit more of a natural sound through the overheads as compared to the close mics. The snare drum is fixable as you can replace it with a sample and the drummer may not even know if you do it well enough. EQ. comp and reverb won't do much for an already bad sounding snare though. I tricked several drummers with bad sounding drums.

rynugz007 · 25th April 2004

my monitors are event tr8. I didnt think they were too harsh when i bought em especially compared to some others i tried out. Could the over emphasized high end be due to my D/A converters? Im using the rme/nuendo 8- i/o. Somebody once used the word "ringy" to described these converters. Is there any truth to that?

Jbuntz, I see what your saying about the overheads. I did use a pair of akg 451 reissues through an fmr rnp. I cant imagine this signal chain would be the problem. Im thinking mic placement/room issues. The room is small but i did use some good sized absorbers to keep shit under control. If anybody has any opinions on tracking drums in a small room and mic placement feel free to comment. Thanks for all the tips everyone.

eberrong · 30th April 2004

This mix does not suck! I really like the vocal sound in the verse. It goes a little dull in the chorus for some reason. The guitars sound really good. I think they just need a bit of EQ to bring them closer to the front of the mix. The drums seem to be overcompressed as mentioned previously. Try to submix the OH's and the snare (no kick) and compress the submix then mix in with uncompressed drum tracks.

You are almost there. I think you captured great performances from a very good band and that is half the battle. Can you share the recording details?

MASSIVE Master · 1st May 2004

Allright, call me crazy, but I think the snare kicks ass... It needs to be EQ'd better, but the "thwack!" is right on. As far as the *general* overcompression, yeah, that's gotta come back a bit. A big bit.

Don't become a victim of the "volume wars" - Make a great mix. Then, let the mastering engineer screw it up for you. When mixing, don't EVER do anything just for the sake of making the mix louder. It has replaced "too damn much verb" as the NUMBER ONE "rookie" mistake.

This obviously has the potential to be a really good mix. It'll happen much easier if you don't try and force it.

Gee, I don't mean to sound like I'm "scolding" or anything...

Jax · 8th May 2004

One of the more interesting tracks to listen to I've heard so far. The band took the time to do something original sounding, which is good.

I agree with the comments @ snare overcompression. Short of re-recording the tune, there's not much you can do about it other than replacing the snare sound with samples, as mentioned earlier. I think a lively, somewhat overtone ringy snare would really work. Not bright, just full and a little ringy. The kick doesn't command anything, but if it did, this track would grab me more.

The crashes and hats sound like tearing tinfoil. I point the finger at vintagewarmer. High amounts of limiting often get you that tinfoil sound on the mix.

I like the "bullhorn" effect on the panned backing vocal part, but it's more sonically grabbing than the entire vocal sound. It might work better if the vocal sound was just as compelling but still completely different from the bullhorn voc.

Lastly, the acoustic gtr sounds very mid scooped and thin, but the attack of the strum works. I could only tell they were acoustic gtrs and not the HH when I turned up my speakers.

1st May 2004	#12
MASSIVE Master Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.) IL Posts: 2,632	Allright, call me crazy, but I think the snare kicks ass... It needs to be EQ'd better, but the "thwack!" is right on. As far as the general overcompression, yeah, that's gotta come back a bit. A big bit. Don't become a victim of the "volume wars" - Make a great mix. Then, let the mastering engineer screw it up for you. When mixing, don't EVER do anything just for the sake of making the mix louder. It has replaced "too damn much verb" as the NUMBER ONE "rookie" mistake. This obviously has the potential to be a really good mix. It'll happen much easier if you don't try and force it. Gee, I don't mean to sound like I'm "scolding" or anything... __________________ John Scrip - Massive Mastering, LLC - www.massivemastering.com Spoon-feed a newb some answer and he'll mix for a day - Get him to think about it and figure it out for himself and he'll mix for a lifetime --- JS

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20th April 2004	#2
faeflora Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,019	It needs a lot of work. Firstly, the vintage warmer is killing the mix. I can hear it pumping and sucking. The drums don't sound well tracked. The snare sounds kinda tubby and the cymbals are harsh. The vocals need level adjustments or less or more compression and aren't loud enough. Keep working at it!

20th April 2004	#3
rynugz007 Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: cincinnati, OH Posts: 461 Thread Starter	funny, people have been saying the vocals are too loud then someone else says not loud enough. Someone mentioned the snare sounds thin now its too tubby. I guess its just a taste thing. I appreciate the suggestions none the less. Im not a mastering engineer. The closest thing to a mastering tool i have is the vintage warmer. I would really like to send this tune out to get mastered, in that case i would eliminate the vintage warmer all together. I dont think the band wants to spend that kinda money right now.

20th April 2004	#4
cdog Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 3,437 3 Reviews written	There are some cool elements to the mix (effecty backgound vox) but the drums are quite anemic sounding. The snare is being choked by compression. Where is the kick? Try getting a really good natural sounding mix balance before mucking it up with eq, compression and fx. When you stand in a room with a band the drums are banginly present - get them there in the mix, then back down a hair.

23rd April 2004	#5
JKL Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Mexico Posts: 233	Like the track. I agree that the snare sound is obviously waaaay over compressed. In fact, the sound of the snare is exactly the sound I get when I smash a snare mult to blend in with the unsmashed snare. You might try mixing that sound in with an uneffected snare mult. If you could open up the drum sound in general, I think the whole track would take on another (and better) life/sound. Not sure if you're running the whole kit, or just the snare through that compressor, but the snare is taking a drastic hit. The track in general sounds a bit muffled, but like I said, unveiling a component (drums in this case) can have a profound effect on how the whole track is percieved. Just listened again. I think the comments on the vintage warmer have merit. It's making the mix sound a bit dull. I'm not sure about the "tubby" snare comment. The snare is being killed before it even gets a chance to be tubby. In my opinion, you need to open up the drums, and maybe consider using a different plug to make the track louder. Even with that plugin on the master, the mix is not very loud at all. I think this track could sound fabulous with a few major tweaks (untweaks?). Jon

24th April 2004	#7
Beezoboy Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 495	What I hear is the lack of high end on this mix. The voice sounds pretty good, but the guitars and drums are missing highend. It really makes them sound mucked up and dull. I also think the drums are way too far back in the mix. Just curious, what are you monitoring on. I would assume something midrangy and harsh in the highs. Anyway its a good song, I think it would fit in with the stuff out today, and it seems well produced as far as arrangement goes. If you can't get this where you want it sonically, I'd love to take a crack at it. Beez

24th April 2004	#8
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,356 1 Review written	Well thats nice! A remix offer!

25th April 2004	#9
jbuntz Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716	I think it's a good mix excluding the drums which a lot of which unfortunately has to do with tracking. To me the snare sounds like it's got a taped head or the head is too thick and/or the attack overly enhanced with a compressor so it's turned into the sound of a pencil hitting a table. Also if you had access to a nice room, room sound would give you some size. Overheads are a bit funky sounding to me. Sounds like they are thick cymbals through cheap AKG condensors through a mackie pre or something....kind of a bandpassed sound. Thinner cymabls aren't so loud and you can get a bit more of a natural sound through the overheads as compared to the close mics. The snare drum is fixable as you can replace it with a sample and the drummer may not even know if you do it well enough. EQ. comp and reverb won't do much for an already bad sounding snare though. I tricked several drummers with bad sounding drums.

30th April 2004	#11
eberrong Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 145	This mix does not suck! I really like the vocal sound in the verse. It goes a little dull in the chorus for some reason. The guitars sound really good. I think they just need a bit of EQ to bring them closer to the front of the mix. The drums seem to be overcompressed as mentioned previously. Try to submix the OH's and the snare (no kick) and compress the submix then mix in with uncompressed drum tracks. You are almost there. I think you captured great performances from a very good band and that is half the battle. Can you share the recording details?

8th May 2004	#13
Jax Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 4,763	One of the more interesting tracks to listen to I've heard so far. The band took the time to do something original sounding, which is good. I agree with the comments @ snare overcompression. Short of re-recording the tune, there's not much you can do about it other than replacing the snare sound with samples, as mentioned earlier. I think a lively, somewhat overtone ringy snare would really work. Not bright, just full and a little ringy. The kick doesn't command anything, but if it did, this track would grab me more. The crashes and hats sound like tearing tinfoil. I point the finger at vintagewarmer. High amounts of limiting often get you that tinfoil sound on the mix. I like the "bullhorn" effect on the panned backing vocal part, but it's more sonically grabbing than the entire vocal sound. It might work better if the vocal sound was just as compelling but still completely different from the bullhorn voc. Lastly, the acoustic gtr sounds very mid scooped and thin, but the attack of the strum works. I could only tell they were acoustic gtrs and not the HH when I turned up my speakers.