Rock mix in need of critique

[matthew.sawicki]

Hey there...

I've been workin on a couple songs over the last few weeks, and I was hoping to get some opinions on them. It's a rock band and these are the first mixes with everything being tracked, so I was thinking you guys could give me some things to check out my next go around...

http://www.suburbanprostudios.com/01 Corey Hame.mp3

http://www.suburbanprostudios.com/02 Pack It Up.mp3

Any and all feedback is 100% appreciated!

[gabetx26]

Critique??? Yeah right, your just showing off your skillz nothing wrong with that btw. I can't think of one thing that could make these songs sound better, even the mastering sounds right on. I actually have a question, what platform did you record this on, I'm going with Protools HD . Seriously not trying to kiss @$$ but good job.

Gabe

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by gabetx26

Critique??? Yeah right, your just showing off your skillz nothing wrong with that btw. I can't think of one thing that could make these songs sound better, even the mastering sounds right on. I actually have a question, what platform did you record this on, I'm going with Protools HD . Seriously not trying to kiss @$$ but good job.

Gabe

As much as I appreciate the compliment, I genuinely was hoping someone would hate everything I did!

This is my first band I've really ever done, other than a few bands over the last few years that did a song or so at another studio that I was the second engineer at.

I guess what I'm saying is that this is really my first effort at doing something like this, so my experience is somewhat limited in the grand scheme of rock music. I typically work on Rap and Hip-hop, so this is a big deal to me!

I did both of those mixes in about an hour each after we got done tracking the last of the vocals for them last night, so they're not final... and the mastering isn't much more than me playing with ML4000 for about 5 minutes to get it nice and loud sounding.

As for your question, yeah I have an HD 3 rig, and I love it to death!

Thanks for the kind words though, it really means a lot to me!

[CommunityMart]

I dont hear much treble right now because I think its my headphones, though.

Way better than what I'm about to post, unfortunately. thumbsup

[PhatStax Drums]

Sounds really nice and happening to me! I'm not an ultra-experienced engineer, I'm sure others could be more critical (as you would like). But for an hour's mix (and I only can listen on quiet, halfway decent computer speakers right now), it sounded like if I heard it on the radio, it would fit right in...in other words, no real issues.

Great job on a quick listen! Nice drum sound!

[matthew.sawicki]

Thanks guys!

I hope someone can at least hate on me a little bit!

I know I need to comp the vocals together and stuff a bit more still, but I feel the first drafts are pretty good.

Anyone have anything else?

[JGILL]

Sounds great!!!

Only thing I would suggest is compressing the lead vox a little more maybe a 4-1 ration give it a little more edge in your face type feel. But that depends on what your going for. A couple of newer bands compressed a few at around 6 to 8. Other then that everything else seems to work.

Nice...

[PureAudiouk]

Hey. Sounds pretty good!

corey hame -

I personally think you've overcooked the sizzle of the hats, to me, they feel like the astranged cousin of the drums. The way they are panned makes them stand out even more and I'd personally have spread their energy a little. It sounds like theres different/much more reverb on them.

Sounds like youve noticed an eq hole and tried to force your hats into the hole...

Vocals are crisp! (plus a great performance) Guitars are great also,

the other track is really good.

mostly taste issues....

Paul

[xmostynx]

spill the beans about the snare and how you processed it!

how did you mic up the kit?
plugs..etc?

[Neruk]

Dont know if you remember but i PM'ed you a few months back to mix some of my stuff.. im still planning on it.. especially after hearing these new mixes..good shit

-neruk

[Van Speijk]

I agree with Paul about the sizzle on the hat. I found it irritating all the way through the song.
I don't hate you for it but you've gotta fix it.
Van Speijk

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by JGILL

Sounds great!!!

Only thing I would suggest is compressing the lead vox a little more maybe a 4-1 ration give it a little more edge in your face type feel. But that depends on what your going for. A couple of newer bands compressed a few at around 6 to 8. Other then that everything else seems to work.

Nice...

I'll have to check out what exactly I'm doing, but I'm think I ran a BF76 at the 20 setting, but again, I'm not sure. I do know the lowest I put it could only have been 4 though...

Originally Posted by PureAudiouk

I personally think you've overcooked the sizzle of the hats, to me, they feel like the astranged cousin of the drums. The way they are panned makes them stand out even more and I'd personally have spread their energy a little. It sounds like theres different/much more reverb on them.

Sounds like youve noticed an eq hole and tried to force your hats into the hole...

I think you're right there. I definitely gave a second thought to the way they were sounding, but since it was just first draft I didn't spend much time working it out. Thanks for reassuring me on that suspicion though.

Originally Posted by xmostynx

spill the beans about the snare and how you processed it!

how did you mic up the kit?
plugs..etc?

The kit wasn't really anything too crazy. It went down like this...

Snare - sm57->germanium
Kick - Beta52->ADA 8000 (yeah I know it's a behringer and it blows, but it's what I've got til the funds for API's come through)
Toms - Peavey Somethings->ADA 8000
Hats - MXL 990->ADA 8000
Ride - MK012->ADA 8000
Rooms - NT1a's->ADA 8000
Overheads - midside with mid - MK012->ADA 8000 side - Peluso 22 251->Germanium

I track straight to Protools HD and mixed in a couple of replaced kick tracks. Other than that I know I used a Fairchild 660 plug on the snare takin off about a db. Nothing too crazy on the kit other than some additive compression on the sub mix.

Originally Posted by Van Speijk

I agree with Paul about the sizzle on the hat. I found it irritating all the way through the song.
I don't hate you for it but you've gotta fix it.
Van Speijk

I'll definitely make that a priority.

[dmbandtimmy]

Nice! What mics did you use to record guitars and what amps did you use ?

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by dmbandtimmy

Nice! What mics did you use to record guitars and what amps did you use ?

We used an SM57 and an MXL 990 on the guitars, with the 57 being the prominent leader in use.

I did a pretty neat thing by using one of my Germaniums as a DI and taking the output into our Radial reamping box and sending that to the amps in the iso booth. Then I miced the amp and used the other Germ to record it all on. Reeeeeally thick tones!

We used a DSL JCM 2000 and a TSL JCM 2000 for the heads and used a Marshall, a Mesa, and a generic Celestion cabinet for the 4x12's.

[jeremynothman]

mm, agree about the detached hihats thingy, needs a little more midrange in there, not just the available EQ hole.

i've never liked the new marshalls (as in DSL, TSL or the Mode4), but you've made them sound pretty cool, not the usual raspiness that i associate with those models, so good going on that!

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by jeremynothman

mm, agree about the detached hihats thingy, needs a little more midrange in there, not just the available EQ hole.

i've never liked the new marshalls (as in DSL, TSL or the Mode4), but you've made them sound pretty cool, not the usual raspiness that i associate with those models, so good going on that!

Yeah, I actually fixed (I think!) the hi-hats problem last night. I wasn't really trying to fill a hole, I was more just trying to make sure they were identifiable in the mix. Hopefully this new bounce did a better job.

I personally hate all the new Marshalls as well, but I really did like the tones that I got down on this.

Here's the new mix of Corey Hame btw...

http://www.suburbanprostudios.com/Corey Hame NEW.mp3

[Van Speijk]

Hi Matthew,
This mix sounds better, as far as I'm concerned it's fixed.
I enjoyed listening to it this time around.thumbsup
Van Speijk

[RockManDan]

sounds really good. i think the changes worked well. One thing i cant stand is open hihat being too loud in a mix(something ive always battled with drummers, myself included). I think you really nailed it. You can hear it well, but it doesnt overpower the other cymbals.

I think your dynamics are great. Its punchy and compressed, but not flattened, so i feel like this will stand up great to mastering compression or radio smashing.

excellent work.

[nandoanalog]

The hats are way too loud. Everything else sounds ok.

[Chris Doremus]

Id like to hear less compression on the drums in general and also maybe the bass need..... something. Maybe more "string" or "growl." Take or leave it. Cool song btw Ooh just realized a new mix was posted, generally better but my comments still stand.

[stevie_vp]

hi hat is better this time around....
i only feel the kick is annoying me after a minute or so... little too
loud... very very nice mix overall!

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by stevie_vp

hi hat is better this time around....
i only feel the kick is annoying me after a minute or so... little too
loud... very very nice mix overall!

I can understand that, actually on this mix of Corey Hame I pushed the levels on the kick to try and make the track a little more aggressive.

Also, Chris has said he thought the drums were a bit too compressed... well I sort of feel that the rooms are pumping the drum mix a bit so I may try getting them a little down, but I think that the overall compression on the drums is really working for the track.

This is the first mix that I've ever done that was like this though, so perhaps I'm wrong in my thoughts that the compression serves the track well.

Aside from extreme panning cliche from cymbals and tom kit -- mix would benefit from more stereo panning of other channels (to avoid accumulation on center image) and some broad opposing EQ (2 guitars, main vocal versus back vocals) and dry versus wet.

Aside from the snare clearly sticking out by 5-6dB, the overall mix dynamics is quite monolythic. Loudness comes from dynamic range (variations).

Delays or tight reverb could bring some depth -- but OK targeted format is obviously being upfront.

Drums and main vocals are obviously leading : have guitars anything special to say? Maybe different balance or mix format would be more creative or interesting for the band?

Maybe later...

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by High Fidelity

Aside from extreme panning cliche from cymbals and tom kit -- mix would benefit from more stereo panning of other channels (to avoid accumulation on center image) and some broad opposing EQ (2 guitars, main vocal versus back vocals) and dry versus wet.

Aside from the snare clearly sticking out by 5-6dB, the overall mix dynamics is quite monolythic. Loudness comes from dynamic range (variations).

Delays or tight reverb could bring some depth -- but OK targeted format is obviously being upfront.

Drums and main vocals are obviously leading : have guitars anything special to say? Maybe different balance or mix format would be more creative or interesting for the band?

Maybe later...

Hm... as much as I wanna do everything you said, I'm a little unclear on exactly what you meant.

Let me see if I understand right.

The toms seem farther out in the stereo image than the cymbals would lead you to believe they should be? I did pan them wayyy outside of their actual location, but I've always thought that wide toms were awesome... perhaps I'm wrong?

I have felt that the center guitar is much more pronounced than it's stereo counterparts. I'll try pulling up the rhythm tracks and see if I can't clear things up a bit that way. I'll also vary my eq's so that the frequencies from either side shouldn't overlap too much.

The vocals are really just the tracking cuts so far. I haven't spent any time with the dubs to blend them in yet, so you're points are completely valid in that respect. Hopefully when I get to those you'll agree with what I do.

The mix sounds monolythic? I'm guessing you're saying that it's too compressed and not dynamic enough. I'll try and clear that up, but I really do like the in your face sound that this is getting. Am I overdoing it though? I can completely understand too much of a good thing.

I'll definitely try and bring out more of the intricacies of the guitars. I'm sure there's much more going on that what I've presented, but with the Marshalls cranked to 11 all the time, it's a little hard for me to really define any of the parts against the others. I actually want to retrack some of the guitars so that I can get a more diverse sound from them, but the band doesn't seem to agree. Either way, I'll try and make this all more separated in the end.

Thanks so much for your input, I really need someone that's more knowledgeable and experienced than myself to help me out with this! As much as I think I know, I know a lot of you guys out there really have the know-how to tell me exactly what I'm lacking.