online mastering

doubledecker · 22nd July 2006, 07:32 PM

One of my clients would like to use some well known mastering house to master an album.Online mastering is affordable and viable solution(no travel and hotels and hourly fees) but i just dont know who to trust, cos' we are not gonna be there in person to oversee the all thing.Did anybody use this kind of service and who would you recommend?

arf · 22nd July 2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubledecker

One of my clients would like to use some well known mastering house to master an album.Online mastering is affordable and viable solution(no travel and hotels and hourly fees) but i just dont know who to trust, cos' we are not gonna be there in person to oversee the all thing.Did anybody use this kind of service and who would you recommend?

I think virtually all pro mastering companies can receive and send files by FTP. For any unattended session, make sure that you know what revision options are available and at what cost. Good communication with the engineer doing the work is key. Some facilities will offer specific guarantees for clients to increase the comfort factor, some revisions may be free, others charged. Get everything understood out front.

Alan
www.arfdigital.com

Nancy M · 22nd July 2006, 09:50 PM

We have been doing FTP file transfer mastering for about a year now, it's very effective, and the cool thing is that if you want us to do a track for free and send it to you first, we'll do that so you can decide for yourself. We have experiened a 100% success rate of doing this, and then mastering the album.

www.moonlightmastering.com

email: Nmatter@earthlink.net

kind regards,
nancy

terminal3 · 22nd July 2006, 09:56 PM

Of all the recording studios/mastering houses/kids with [k] software and an mbox in London I've ever dealt with, I can safely say that 100% of them will do work via FTP if you want it, the problem is that 90% of them don't know how to market that to clients. So my theory is you could call ANY mastering house you want/like/respect, and arrange your job to be done remotely, and they could and would do it.

**jayfrigo** · 23rd July 2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminal3

So my theory is you could call ANY mastering house you want/like/respect, and arrange your job to be done remotely, and they could and would do it.

Yup, pretty common. Can't imagine that many (if any) pro houses aren't able to do this.

We've been doing this pretty regularly for at least 4 years now. If you're unfamiliar with the engineer, have them do a single track from the project first and upload it back to you so that you can offer comments and make sure the engineer's approach reflects your creative vision and/or instructions. Once you feel confident that you are both on the same page, the rest of the album should run smoothly.

MASSIVE Master · 23rd July 2006, 05:49 AM

Amen - 10 years ago, I couldn't have imagined it. 5 years ago, I started receiving a few projects here and there via FTP.

Now, I'd estimate that 30-40% of everything that comes in is delivered here via FTP. A small amount (10-15%) gets delivered back to the client ("burn your own") via FTP. Especially singles... And probably 80% of refs are delivered via FTP. Giant time (and FedEx / Postage) saver...

Whoodathunkit?

bob katz · 23rd July 2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

Amen - 10 years ago, I couldn't have imagined it. 5 years ago, I started receiving a few projects here and there via FTP.

Now, I'd estimate that 30-40% of everything that comes in is delivered here via FTP. A small amount (10-15%) gets delivered back to the client ("burn your own") via FTP. Especially singles... And probably 80% of refs are delivered via FTP. Giant time (and FedEx / Postage) saver...

Whoodathunkit?

We just upped our upload speed to 1 mbps to accomodate increased use of FTP with our clients. But until the whole internet runs consistently at 5 or 10 mbps or better I still advocate FTP as an emergency or backup to Fedex. Clients tend to wait to the last minute and then discover that it takes all day or longer to upload their 9624 mixes to us...

BK

Brad Blackwood · 23rd July 2006, 03:38 PM

We've had a dedicated in-house FTP server for a number of years now, and with our connection, client's can upload to our server at 600kb/sec. I'd guess probably 30% of our work is coming in on FTP nowadays, and it's steadily increasing...

arf · 23rd July 2006, 03:49 PM

The bottleneck is still the client's own connection to the Internet. With typical consumer DSL/Cable hookups, it takes about 15 minutes to upload an average length song. Double that for 96k files. Guestimate up to three hours to upload for an album of 44.1 or 48k data. YMMV. Still better than FedEX, not to mention that FedEX costs have skyrocketed lately.

bob katz · 23rd July 2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arf

The bottleneck is still the client's own connection to the Internet. With typical consumer DSL/Cable hookups, it takes about 15 minutes to upload an average length song. Double that for 96k files. Guestimate up to three hours to upload for an album of 44.1 or 48k data. YMMV. Still better than FedEX, not to mention that FedEX costs have skyrocketed lately.

Another case is Murphy's law. It seems the same day that one client has to urgently upload his album another client is already on line with us at the same time, and both of their bandwidth suffers greatly. I had to call one of the clients and ask them to wait to the next day or the more urgent client would never get his upload done in time.

Anyway, FTP is a lifesaver, we're using it all the time, and I love sending refs to distant clients by FTP to save having to cut a ref prior to cutting a master.

BK

Andy Krehm · 23rd July 2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubledecker

One of my clients would like to use some well known mastering house to master an album.Online mastering is affordable and viable solution(no travel and hotels and hourly fees) but i just dont know who to trust, cos' we are not gonna be there in person to oversee the all thing.Did anybody use this kind of service and who would you recommend?

I think with all the posts on this thread it should be now apparent that the term "online mastering" is mostly just a marketing term. Almost all of us can receive and send files via FTP and so one should really just pick the studio and engineer they wish to work with and go from there.

I was/am considering adding this new service (ha, ha) to my website so I have been checking the online mastering sites to what the differences are.

The main difference is that there is a pre-set price, governed by the tracks or the number of minutes, and one can make payment online. All this can theoretically be done without talking to either the office staff or mastering engineer. I don't really see how not talking to the mastering engineer can be a good thing but it can work out with written instructions, email and of course, using the FTP site allows the client to hear the master before committing to a physical master.

As BK has pointed out, with an actual booked time, even though the client isn't attending, there can be FTP issues if the client waits until the last moment to upload. With "online mastering", I guess the session wouldn't be scheduled until the files arrive intact!

Anyway, let us know how it works out!

inlinenl · 23rd July 2006, 04:29 PM

Hy Guys .. just back from holiday ..... great time ...

I made it a bit more easy on the customers-side ... no FTP ( they can if they want to .. ) but in my situation they can do it al by their web-browser and even can create a login-account ...

I'll get a message in my mail-box anytime someone creates an account and/or uploads a track ... no hassle of setting up an ftp-account ..

works great for me .. just a big PHP-script hosted on a virtual-web server ( linux )

if anybody is interested in such a solution .. let me know .. :-)

its a linux/php script ... so no license required // OpenSource // "gratis" as we dutch call that

greetings Wim.

www.inlinemastering.com

bob katz · 23rd July 2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlinenl

Hy Guys .. just back from holiday ..... great time ...

I made it a bit more easy on the customers-side ... no FTP ( they can if they want to .. ) but in my situation they can do it al by their web-browser and even can create a login-account ...

I'll get a message in my mail-box anytime someone creates an account and/or uploads a track ... no hassle of setting up an ftp-account ..

works great for me .. just a big PHP-script hosted on a virtual-web server ( linux )

if anybody is interested in such a solution .. let me know .. :-)

greetings Wim.

www.inlinemastering.com

Hi, Wim. Did you write the script? A program called "Rumpus" runs on a Mac and is about $500, may be worth it, because there are a number of people who are ftp-illiterate or have difficulties with FTP, and could use the help of a browser-based solution. Rumpus can be downloaded and you can check a demo. I'm just using FTP at this moment but considering rumpus. I believe Rumpus was written in javascript. I'd love a cheaper, PHP-based solution, but I don't want to have to manage different users for FTP and for the browser, it should integrate both solutions. Rumpus allows either FTP or http: access and manages its own user set.

BK

lucey · 23rd July 2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubledecker

One of my clients would like to use some well known mastering house to master an album.Online mastering is affordable and viable solution(no travel and hotels and hourly fees) but i just dont know who to trust, cos' we are not gonna be there in person to oversee the all thing.Did anybody use this kind of service and who would you recommend?

70% of my work is 'online' as I live in the country outside a smaller city.

With good communication it's actually easier to work this way, as you can listen to FTP downloads in your environment and not be fooled by mine.

xist · 23rd July 2006, 05:55 PM

Rumpus it's a great software, even if a bit expensive (well, at least for me!). It has a lot of options to customize, so it takes a bit of time to master it but it's really time well spent. I've worked on it to set it up for a friend's site some time ago.

not_so_new · 23rd July 2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlinenl

Hy Guys .. just back from holiday ..... great time ...

I made it a bit more easy on the customers-side ... no FTP ( they can if they want to .. ) but in my situation they can do it al by their web-browser and even can create a login-account ...

I'll get a message in my mail-box anytime someone creates an account and/or uploads a track ... no hassle of setting up an ftp-account ..

works great for me .. just a big PHP-script hosted on a virtual-web server ( linux )

if anybody is interested in such a solution .. let me know .. :-)

its a linux/php script ... so no license required // OpenSource // "gratis" as we dutch call that

greetings Wim.

www.inlinemastering.com

Hey Wim

I am interested in that.... can you point me to the source files. Thanks....

glassmaster · 23rd July 2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob katz

A program called "Rumpus" runs on a Mac and is about $500, BK

A big thumbs up for Rumpus which we use here, and I seem to remember it was significantly cheaper than $500 though I may be hallucinating (again).

Brad Blackwood · 23rd July 2006, 09:44 PM

I'm considering Rumpus for a new FTP machine and priced it at $270...

thethrillfactor · 23rd July 2006, 10:03 PM

Lets face it, its always encouraged to attend the session but when you have to pay a return plane ticket, hotel stay, a rental car and on top of that extra charges for an attended session it gets to be a little ridiculous.

It makes clients feel that most ME's would rather you don't attend your session and we know for new clients to it its a big deal.

inlinenl · 23rd July 2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

I'm considering Rumpus for a new FTP machine and priced it at $270...

Ok, But you need an UPS powersupply, you need some old mac ... You'll have to have some form of back-up, running on some old scsi disk .. which could crash :-( ... always on which could be considred as a risk for fire .... some of the reasons for me to turn to a hosted solution ..

But .. I'll have to admit it looks real good !!!! by the way .. can users create their own account ...

p.s. I really enjoy clients sitting in .. the mix of upload and "real" clients makes it fun ... uploads are more easy to schedule in ..... but a cup of coffee, some enjoyment together with other musicians is good .. it's already a pretty solitairy job ...

grtz. Wim

mars · 23rd July 2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlinenl

Hy Guys .. just back from holiday ..... great time ...

I made it a bit more easy on the customers-side ... no FTP ( they can if they want to .. ) but in my situation they can do it al by their web-browser and even can create a login-account ...

I'll get a message in my mail-box anytime someone creates an account and/or uploads a track ... no hassle of setting up an ftp-account ..

works great for me .. just a big PHP-script hosted on a virtual-web server ( linux )

if anybody is interested in such a solution .. let me know .. :-)

its a linux/php script ... so no license required // OpenSource // "gratis" as we dutch call that

greetings Wim.

www.inlinemastering.com

Definitely interested in this. I've been having clients use Dropload or You Send It and was now about to set up an FTP as both services can be unreliable at times.

Brad Blackwood · 24th July 2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlinenl

Ok, But you need an UPS powersupply,

Got it.

Quote:

you need some old mac ...

Got it.

Quote:

You'll have to have some form of back-up, running on some old scsi disk .. which could crash :-(

Got it, but it's not SCSI, and it's a RAID array.

Quote:

always on which could be considred as a risk for fire .... some of the reasons for me to turn to a hosted solution ..

Been there, done that. I prefer hosting it locally for a variety of reasons, but one of which is having the files on the network as soon as I need them.

I've been through virtually every aspect of this over the last 5-6 years of heavy FTP use. Your method works for you, mine works for me...

lucey · 24th July 2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Lets face it, its always encouraged to attend the session but when you have to pay a return plane ticket, hotel stay, a rental car and on top of that extra charges for an attended session it gets to be a little ridiculous.

Those charging $475/hr. who have the expectation of clients in studio can surely offord to offer you a little break.

Charging by the song, and primarily working at a distance ... the attending clients create an extra expense of time that I absorb for the pleasure of their company.

thethrillfactor · 24th July 2006, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucey

Those charging $475/hr. who have the expectation of clients in studio can surely offord to offer you a little break.

Charging by the song, and primarily working at a distance ... the attending clients create an extra expense of time that I absorb for the pleasure of their company.

If we as mixing engineers did that we would be lambasted.

Only you guys get away with that.

I've never agreed with it personally, but if you want to work with specific hot ME of the moment i guess you pay to play.

NathanEldred · 24th July 2006, 03:11 AM

99% of the mastering we do is by file download or by the client sending a hi res DVD. A mastering studio will give you one or two revisions for you to approve before proceeding so you know and they know that everything is on the right track. It's not as mysterious as everyone makes it out to be.

minister · 24th July 2006, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I've never agreed with it personally, but if you want to work with specific hot ME of the moment i guess you pay to play.

where i am, we have a few options, but not a lot of 'top flight' options....

i have a long-distance relationship with an excellent ME and i don't have a problem as a mixer/producer not being there. i have sent him some music that was well-mixed, but not a 'slam-dunk' mastering wise. he sent a reference. myself and the band listened to it. we made notes. we sent those to him...we got back a 'perfect' master ... now, if i attended the session, i might have liked the first master in his room and i still would have taken a reference out ... and likely made the same notes.

on the few that i have attended, they were the 'second round' ... and we got what we wanted. didn't NEED to be there.

if i were there, it most likely be out of curiosity and rapport more than making eq or level adjustments.

thethrillfactor · 24th July 2006, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minister

where i am, we have a few options, but not a lot of 'top flight' options....

i have a long-distance relationship with an excellent ME and i don't have a problem as a mixer/producer not being there. i have sent him some music that was well-mixed, but not a 'slam-dunk' mastering wise. he sent a reference. myself and the band listened to it. we made notes. we sent those to him...we got back a 'perfect' master ... now, if i attended the session, i might have liked the first master in his room and i still would have taken a reference out ... and likely made the same notes.

on the few that i have attended, they were the 'second round' ... and we got what we wanted. didn't NEED to be there.

if i were there, it most likely be out of curiosity and rapport more than making eq or level adjustments.

Well i wasn't talking about as an engineer.

I personally get so bored attending mastering sessons after a while that i am no help what so ever.

More for the clients who've never been to a mastering session and want to attend for their own curiosity/sanity.

There are 2 different rates at most Mastering houses, one for an attended session and one for non attended.

For some who are not familar for the reasons(which i've personally have found a little suspect) it turns them off because they feel they will not be able to afford to attend.

I just feel that if the ME wants more input on the project, make it easier for the client to want to attend and be educated for the future.

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22nd July 2006, 07:32 PM	#1
doubledecker Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 383	online mastering One of my clients would like to use some well known mastering house to master an album.Online mastering is affordable and viable solution(no travel and hotels and hourly fees) but i just dont know who to trust, cos' we are not gonna be there in person to oversee the all thing.Did anybody use this kind of service and who would you recommend?

23rd July 2006, 05:49 AM	#6
MASSIVE Master Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.) IL Posts: 1,595	Amen - 10 years ago, I couldn't have imagined it. 5 years ago, I started receiving a few projects here and there via FTP. Now, I'd estimate that 30-40% of everything that comes in is delivered here via FTP. A small amount (10-15%) gets delivered back to the client ("burn your own") via FTP. Especially singles... And probably 80% of refs are delivered via FTP. Giant time (and FedEx / Postage) saver... Whoodathunkit? __________________ John Scrip - Massive Mastering - www.massivemastering.com Spoon-feed a newb some answer and he'll mix for a day - Get him to think about it and figure it out for himself and he'll mix for a lifetime.

23rd July 2006, 03:38 PM	#8
Brad Blackwood Craneslut Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The home of Rock-n-Roll, Memphis, TN Posts: 1,767	We've had a dedicated in-house FTP server for a number of years now, and with our connection, client's can upload to our server at 600kb/sec. I'd guess probably 30% of our work is coming in on FTP nowadays, and it's steadily increasing... __________________ Brad Blackwood euphonic masters "What do I buy and how do I set it?"

23rd July 2006, 09:44 PM	#18
Brad Blackwood Craneslut Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The home of Rock-n-Roll, Memphis, TN Posts: 1,767	I'm considering Rumpus for a new FTP machine and priced it at $270... __________________ Brad Blackwood euphonic masters "What do I buy and how do I set it?"

22nd July 2006, 09:50 PM	#3
Nancy M Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 14	We have been doing FTP file transfer mastering for about a year now, it's very effective, and the cool thing is that if you want us to do a track for free and send it to you first, we'll do that so you can decide for yourself. We have experiened a 100% success rate of doing this, and then mastering the album. www.moonlightmastering.com email: Nmatter@earthlink.net kind regards, nancy

22nd July 2006, 09:56 PM	#4
terminal3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,610	Of all the recording studios/mastering houses/kids with [k] software and an mbox in London I've ever dealt with, I can safely say that 100% of them will do work via FTP if you want it, the problem is that 90% of them don't know how to market that to clients. So my theory is you could call ANY mastering house you want/like/respect, and arrange your job to be done remotely, and they could and would do it.

23rd July 2006, 03:49 PM	#9
arf Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 272	The bottleneck is still the client's own connection to the Internet. With typical consumer DSL/Cable hookups, it takes about 15 minutes to upload an average length song. Double that for 96k files. Guestimate up to three hours to upload for an album of 44.1 or 48k data. YMMV. Still better than FedEX, not to mention that FedEX costs have skyrocketed lately.

23rd July 2006, 04:29 PM	#12
inlinenl Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 746	Hy Guys .. just back from holiday ..... great time ... I made it a bit more easy on the customers-side ... no FTP ( they can if they want to .. ) but in my situation they can do it al by their web-browser and even can create a login-account ... I'll get a message in my mail-box anytime someone creates an account and/or uploads a track ... no hassle of setting up an ftp-account .. works great for me .. just a big PHP-script hosted on a virtual-web server ( linux ) if anybody is interested in such a solution .. let me know .. :-) its a linux/php script ... so no license required // OpenSource // "gratis" as we dutch call that greetings Wim. www.inlinemastering.com

23rd July 2006, 05:55 PM	#15
xist Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 508	Rumpus it's a great software, even if a bit expensive (well, at least for me!). It has a lot of options to customize, so it takes a bit of time to master it but it's really time well spent. I've worked on it to set it up for a friend's site some time ago.

23rd July 2006, 10:03 PM	#19
thethrillfactor Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 11,151	Will more unattanded mastering mean no charges extra charges for attended mastering? Lets face it, its always encouraged to attend the session but when you have to pay a return plane ticket, hotel stay, a rental car and on top of that extra charges for an attended session it gets to be a little ridiculous. It makes clients feel that most ME's would rather you don't attend your session and we know for new clients to it its a big deal.

24th July 2006, 03:11 AM	#25
NathanEldred Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: West Coast Central Florida Posts: 5,441	99% of the mastering we do is by file download or by the client sending a hi res DVD. A mastering studio will give you one or two revisions for you to approve before proceeding so you know and they know that everything is on the right track. It's not as mysterious as everyone makes it out to be. __________________ Nathan Eldred Atlas Pro Audio- Boutique Gear, Consultation, Sales, & Distibution Home of the Atlas Juggernaut Preamp & 500 Series Revolver Rack USA Distributor for Buzz Audio Exclusive Worldwide Distributor for Atlas Pro Audio Gear, Old School Audio (OSA), and Burgin McDaniel Design Atlas Recording Studios, Inc. Recording/Mixing/Mastering Services