So who are the Top 10 mastering guys again?

[Darwin James]

I tried to hire Ted Jensen to master my upcoming release but he is "not accepting new clients" due to being so booked. Which was a bummer.

Who are some excellent options in the top of the field? I've hired Brian Gardner already.

Anyone work with Tony Dawsey before?

[Table Of Tone]

Have you done another album dude?

I think Brian did a great job on your last record!

Ted Jensen has a very different style to Brian Gardner!
My preference would be Brian, especially on your stuff.

Why don't you try Bernie Grundman?
He has done some insanely good sounding records for sure!

You could try a UK dude?
There are a few good ones!
Ian Cooper is great, again, different style.

Tony Dawsey definitely made some of the louder CD's of the time, especially on some of Kid Rock's stuff from around 10 or 12 years ago!
If that's what you're wanting?
I don't know?
I haven't checked out anything he's done recently?

None of those dudes are gonna be cheap!

[MarcoAntonio]

Bob Katz!

[jayfrigo]

After Jensen and Gardner, the other anchors at Sterling, Marino and Calbi, and of course Gateway with the man himself, Bob Ludwig. Long-time classics including Bernie and Doug Sax are obvious, though I'm not sure they're what you're looking for. The next group would be a few more Sterling cats, Coyne, Athens, and Gerhinger, and maybe Weinberg and Dawsey at Masterdisk in the style you're looking for. A couple other big names like Marcussen or Vlado Meller may not be the best fit either. That should give you more than a few avenues to consider.

The next obvious question is, why do you want to go with the expensive guys? It seems some go there for bling factor (not pointing fingers). It's the same reason one drinks Cristal or gets a Gucci handbag. It's not really going to help sales to have a mastering engineer's name on the record. It can take some of the decision-making pressure off your shoulders though.

There are a bunch of other guys who have years of experience, great rooms, and real credits, who are easier to book, less expensive, and often will offer more personal service. It's not like taking a chance on a young guy without a track record. I'd suggest expanding your search beyond the the obvious. Even if you ultimately end up with one of the names above, it's worth at least considering a few other possibilities.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Long-time classics including Bernie and Doug Sax are obvious, though I'm not sure they're what you're looking for..

You gotta be kidding!

Have you heard OutKast Speakerboxxx?
That album sounds really good, especially considering how loud it is!
Bernie did that one and Brian did it's twin, The Love Below.

Bernie Grundman is "Yoda" good at pretty much any genre!

You are absolutely right with regards to the cost though.

Along with checking out a whole bunch of other mastering guys!

[Darwin James]

Excellent suggestions. I should find what I need in these lists.

(My releases are serious business for me. I don't make mixtapes or demos. This isnt a hobby. Tons and tons of work, labor, effort, time and money I put in my albums. So I naturally want to make sure I get the best final output I can. I also like trying different engineers. Basically.)

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

Excellent suggestions. I should find what I need in these lists.

(My releases are serious business for me. I don't make mixtapes or demos. This isnt a hobby. Tons and tons of work, labor, effort, time and money I put in my albums. So I naturally want to make sure I get the best final output I can. I also like trying different engineers. Basically.)

I know exactly where you're coming from.

I wish every artist saw things that way.

Even $4000+ is a small price to pay when you've already dropped a s**t ton of cash, time N work on a record.

I'm just trying to save you wasting a bunch of time N money when you've already been to the best mastering studio and had a record cut by the best guy for the job!

Every mastering studio has their little "unique" thing going with engineers N gear, but I've never really seen anywhere else as "custom" as Grundmans!

That's just my taste!
I'll shut up now

[recall]

Vlado has mastered a lot of the Kanye stuff if that is any help for you.

[Cellotron]

Darwin -
Got to say I think Tony Dawsey would most likely give you exactly what you would be looking for. I'm definitely a fan of his work.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

Excellent suggestions. I should find what I need in these lists.

(My releases are serious business for me. I don't make mixtapes or demos. This isnt a hobby. Tons and tons of work, labor, effort, time and money I put in my albums. So I naturally want to make sure I get the best final output I can. I also like trying different engineers. Basically.)

Oh lord ... do you have any idea how insulting this is? Both to other artists, and to other MEs?


So everyone else who has more balls than to buy a name brand is simply not as "serious" about their business as you? Or is not getting the "best final output". What a joke dude. You're a sheep, bottom line. How so? If you don't know who to hire, and are asking here, then you don't have ANY sense of what people are offering ... and ... you did not build a relationship with your last ME, you just made yourself feel good with a name brand. You went on and on about the job they did, but you're moving on? If you were truly serious about your work you'd find a groove with a person who can change with your needs as your work evolves, and ALWAYS be as good as it gets. Relationship is the name of the game, not 'brand name is the game of your relationships'.

I mastered a CD/vinyl record that opened #3 on Billboard last week, by a band that had used Ludwig and Calbi ... lucky for me The Black Keys are real musicians and big people with balls and vision enough to not look to play the game of the "top 10". I'm finishing Sami Yusef today, who has sold 5 million in his first two records, and who could obviously hire anyone. Thank God that his people can think out of the box you're living in, and are just not shopping top money names in a field of diverse excellence.

On behalf of other great MEs who have not been around since a cohesive major label system sent a limited group of coastal MEs artist after artist who was likely to be huge, I'd hope there are more true artists in the world who think for themselves and will work with people like me who charge $100/trk, and less people like you who are not thinking creatively or building relationships and simply making TJ too busy with hangers on to charge his $500/hr.


And as far as Grundman's being the "most custom" ... more folklore. You all really need to get out more ... plenty of custom work to be had. There's nothing to be gained for your art or your audience by paying only these people to make you feel good about yourselves and your expenditures.

[Darwin James]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Darwin -
Got to say I think Tony Dawsey would most likely give you exactly what you would be looking for. I'm definitely a fan of his work.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

This is good.

Originally Posted by lucey

Oh lord ... do you have any idea how insulting this is? Both to other artists, and to other MEs?


So everyone else who has more balls than to buy a name brand is simply not as "serious" about their business as you? Or is not getting the "best final output". What a joke dude. You're a sheep, bottom line. How so? If you don't know who to hire, and are asking here, then you don't have ANY sense of what people are offering ... and ... you did not build a relationship with your last ME, you just made yourself feel good with a name brand. You went on and on about the job they did, but you're moving on? If you were truly serious about your work you'd find a groove with a person who can change with your needs as your work evolves, and ALWAYS be as good as it gets. Relationship is the name of the game, not 'brand name is the game of your relationships'.

I mastered a CD/vinyl record that opened #3 on Billboard last week, by a band that had used Ludwig and Calbi ... lucky for me The Black Keys are real musicians and big people with balls and vision enough to not look to play the game of the "top 10". I'm finishing Sami Yusef today, who has sold 5 million in his first two records, and who could obviously hire anyone. Thank God that his people can think out of the box you're living in, and are just not shopping top money names in a field of diverse excellence.

On behalf of other great MEs who have not been around since a cohesive major label system sent a limited group of coastal MEs artist after artist who was likely to be huge, I'd hope there are more true artists in the world who think for themselves and will work with people like me who charge $100/trk, and less people like you who are not thinking creatively or building relationships and simply making TJ too busy with hangers on to charge his $500/hr.


And as far as Grundman's being the "most custom" ... more folklore. You all really need to get out more ... plenty of custom work to be had. There's nothing to be gained for your art or your audience by paying only these people to make you feel good about yourselves and your expenditures.

1. You cannot establish any sort of "groove" with a mastering engineer when you have to communicate (mainly) with his sales rep. I'll give Chris Athens props on that front, he called me when I hired him.

2. I asked for recommended individuals. Not an essay on your personal issues. Have any names of people you can recommend?

3. Stop being foolish. I've hired Tom Waltz, Dave Collins, and a number of others. Can I hire who I want?

[mastertone]

Check out Dave Cooley.
He has done some of my favorite Detroit albums.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

This is good.



1. You cannot establish any sort of "groove" with a mastering engineer when you have to communicate (mainly) with his sales rep. I'll give Chris Athens props on that front, he called me when I hired him.

2. I asked for recommended individuals. Not an essay on your personal issues. Have any names of people you can recommend?

3. Stop being foolish. I've hired Tom Waltz, Dave Collins, and a number of others. Can I hire who I want?

1. MEs with sales reps are thus bad for you ... and yet you're asking for a list of people who will not be any better in that aspect.

2. I actually gave an essay on your personal issues. You're happy to promote your records by talking about the MEs names you've used, and how great they were, but you're moving on? And yet you don't know where? Issues galore. Sales comes from vision and vision comes from independent thought and creativity. This random thing is helping your music how?

3. You can hire anyone you want, of course ... but you should have some idea of what you want from them musically, and thus seek them out on their musicality, not name. Since you're asking here you not only have no idea what the more known people do but you also don't know what the less known people are up to.

So what's the difference who you hire as long as they have a quality set up and get you the goods via custom work? And how do you do that? By developing a relationship. Not by relying on others to tell you what to do or hiring people with a sales rep.


In general, your aim and your approach are 100% in conflict, but I wish you the best with it.

[Darwin James]

Originally Posted by lucey

1. MEs with sales reps are thus bad for you ... and yet you're asking for a list of people who will not be any better in that aspect.

2. I actually gave an essay on your personal issues. You're happy to promote your records by talking about the MEs names you've used, and how great they were, but you're moving on? And yet you don't know where? Issues galore. Sales comes from vision and vision comes from independent thought and creativity. This random thing is helping your music how?

3. You can hire anyone you want, of course ... but you should have some idea of what you want from them musically, and thus seek them out on their musicality, not name. Since you're asking here you not only have no idea what the more known people do but you also don't know what the less known people are up to.

So what's the difference who you hire as long as they have a quality set up and get you the goods via custom work? And how do you do that? By developing a relationship. Not by relying on others to tell you what to do or hiring people with a sales rep.


In general, your aim and your approach are 100% in conflict, but I wish you the best with it.

It's cute watching you try to figure things out.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

It's cute watching you try to figure things out.

Dude I'm crystal clear on you and on me. Maybe a little self searching is in order instead of insulting everyone else ? Maybe a little talk about musicality and service in in order?

What are you actually looking for in this new hire? If you posted that list of needs and not a request for the random dartboard of fame you'd actually serve the music and get some real help.

[Darwin James]

Originally Posted by lucey

Dude I'm crystal clear on you and on me. Maybe a little self searching is in order instead of insulting everyone else ? Maybe a little talk about musicality and service in in order?

What are you actually looking for in this new hire? If you posted that list of needs and not a request for the random dartboard of fame you'd actually serve the music and get some real help.

First I think this thread should have been in the "where to", so apologies friends.

Usually when someone says "hey, who/what is good" and/or "who is top in the field" you think that they might actually care and want to pursue the best thing they can. It's a public forum remember.

Then people throw up a bunch of suggestions, some fit the parameters, some dont. I then investigate the names, if it fits my realm, which Katz does not, (ah so little you know about me..) then I whittle my options. I see weight in taking recommendations from people to heart enough to investigate it. Like anything in life when seeking to better your own work. I've been making music for 20 years, I've hired my fair share of no name folks along the way. What's your issue again?

Actually, i think i'll just download some illegal plugs and master my album by myself instead. Thanks Lucey for the direction. I'll save myself a ton not hiring anyone.

[mixmkr]

Lucey...before you point out the speck of sand in someone else's eye, you might examine the plank in yours.

The guy asked for someone at the top of the field, nothing more. And so what if a little name dropping might be percieved to help his CD? I don't see a problem with that either. But I think the intention more was to GET the best possible, via respected opinions.

I think all you're succeeding in doing is running away potential new business with your tone of voice and opinions. Why not focus more on your own trade and profession?

[mixmkr]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

(My releases are serious business for me. I don't make mixtapes or demos. This isnt a hobby. Tons and tons of work, labor, effort, time and money I put in my albums. So I naturally want to make sure I get the best final output I can. I also like trying different engineers. Basically.)

Also, I think you are missing this person's intentions too, given the content of his lyrics, etc. "Lowering the bar" really is an insult to his intended target and he needs to keep his standard of excellence the best he can possibly do.

That said... I hate this MUSICAL genre, but this guy is on a serious mission.

[Riccardo]

Plenty of excellent mastering engineers out there capable of doing stellar work. Jay already mentioned him but I'll put another "subjective vote" for Doug Sax.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Darwin -
Got to say I think Tony Dawsey would most likely give you exactly what you would be looking for. I'm definitely a fan of his work.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

I do need to make a point of checking out some of his more recent work!

[Darwin James]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Plenty of excellent mastering engineers out there capable of doing stellar work.

I completely agree and have never said anything to the contrary.

I will gladly look at any name that is recommended as doing top level work.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

First I think this thread should have been in the "where to", so apologies friends.

Usually when someone says "hey, who/what is good" and/or "who is top in the field" you think that they might actually care and want to pursue the best thing they can. It's a public forum remember.

Then people throw up a bunch of suggestions, some fit the parameters, some dont. I then investigate the names, if it fits my realm, which Katz does not, (ah so little you know about me..) then I whittle my options. I see weight in taking recommendations from people to heart enough to investigate it. Like anything in life when seeking to better your own work. I've been making music for 20 years, I've hired my fair share of no name folks along the way. What's your issue again?

Actually, i think i'll just download some illegal plugs and master my album by myself instead. Thanks Lucey for the direction. I'll save myself a ton not hiring anyone.

If you want to be a smart ass and you can't describe what you want or are missing with the pros you've used you might as well use a plug-in and be done with it. This is not a fashion show ... results matter. What results do you want?

Look brother, I'm not out to get you but you're making no sense. If you know the field, then you know it. If you don't know the field you go asking for the obvious names online? Without describing the musical results you're after? Makes no sense. At the least ask a trusted friend who can bridge what you want with what was lacking previously. I mean if your methods so far have found you no one that's worthy of your loyalty ... maybe a new method would serve you better? Something that begins by talking about musical direction and personal direction?

Originally Posted by mixmkr

I think all you're succeeding in doing is running away potential new business with your tone of voice and opinions. Why not focus more on your own trade and profession?

It's Sunday, where many people are taking the day off, and I'm working on a multimillion seller who chose my work over a "top 10". My focus is just fine, thank you. Posting here is a break for me and inspires my work. And I'll say what I please. No fear or favor. This is not a PR method for me to parse words to offend the fewest ... it's an outlet and a place to share ideas. I think his ideas are counterproductive, to be kind about it.

His assumptions are ridiculous and this method is no way to do "serious business". Business means value and relationship. Quality comes from many places, and quality in mastering means a talented ME and a relationship to get your music to it's greatest destination.

His assumption that "the best" person for any singular work resides in a small group of MEs is insulting to way too many people to mention. Many people do great work and offer "the best" in this field, even if you have not discovered them yet.




I'm out ... good luck with it.

[lettenmusic]

Trevor Sadler

mastermind productions - mastering studio

[Darwin James]

Remind me to stay out of the mastering forum.

[Masterer]

@ Jay. Thanks bro! I've always thought of myself as the Gucci bag of mastering.

@ Darwin. Don't let folks with insecurity issues sour you on this forum.
If you want to make the rounds of all the top guys then have at it my man.
You only get to make so many records in life.

Good luck with your new project.

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by Masterer

@ Jay. Thanks bro! I've always thought of myself as the Gucci bag of mastering.

My pleasure sir. You definitely have the goods.

BTW, there's a joke in there somewhere about Gucci saddle bags, but I'll be a gentleman and avoid it...

@ Darwin. Don't let folks with insecurity issues sour you on this forum.
If you want to make the rounds of all the top guys then have at it my man.
You only get to make so many records in life.

Good luck with your new project.

Heck ya, it's great to be able to shop top shelf. Who wouldn't enjoy mastering with one of those guys? I certainly would. Actually Chris Gerhinger mastered something I mixed - did great - and Bob Ludwig did my band's album back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and vinyl was still standard. These guys may not be the only options, but they sure aren't bad ones. Don't avoid the forum just because of disagreement. Variety is the spice of life.

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

(snip)Dave Collins, and a number of others.

He'd be on my short list too if I were making a record of my own, and if I didn't already do this for a living. The acerbic wit alone is worth the price of admission.

[pinwale]

Originally Posted by lucey

It's Sunday, where many people are taking the day off, and I'm working on a multimillion seller who chose my work over a "top 10". My focus is just fine, thank you. Posting here is a break for me and inspires my work.

Just priceless.

Like a Summer's Eve.


Darwin, did anyone suggest Young and Cousins at Metropolis in London? Might as well make a trip of it.

[recall]

Brian,
I respect your work on the Black Keys record but I think you are giving Darwin a hard time here. His question was not a legal point as to who the top 10 are in the world. I think what he meant was who the go to guys of the top labels and artists are and those are undeniably Ludwig, Jensen, Vlado, Marcussen etc

That's not to say they are better than you, but it does provide the artist with a certain amount of confidence in the outcome by going to one of the in demand names. The psychological comfort of going to one of these guys is not to be undervalued either.

If you can afford it then do it Darwin.

[Red Mastering]

just chiming in with some digression
I've read here that master is 10%,mix 20% and tacking 70% of album's SQ (and I completely agree on that),
so I'd say what's the point pay 4k$ if you didn't spent 36k$ already ?
I don't want to sound rude, but somehow I understand Brian's point....
I'd made an effort and listen to Darwin's music, and I can't justify spending 4k$ for mastering (sorry, it's just my opinion, but it's not material ready to spend such a money) don't mention previous 36k$... I can't hear it in production/mix,
anyway if someone is loaded and want to burn 4 grand ?

well why not?
and why not to do it public ?
you always grab some attention...and some criticism too