Is this a valid idea?

[phybeau]

I don’t know if I’m in the correct (sub)forum for this, if not, please forgive me..;-)

Here’s an idea that occured to me, I don’t know if anyone’s ever tried this, or if it’s even workable:

Since I’m building a small private studio, I’m going to end up with a small(ish) control room and small live room, more a recording booth.
Consequently I have to record drums etcetera more or less dry, and add artificial reverb later on.

What if I replay (parts) of that dry recording into the same room at a higher speed/higher pitch and record this with ambience of that room?
Then bring that (reverb)recording down to the initial speed/pitch, and play is simultaniously with the original dry recording.
Shouldn’t the room sound bigger than it originaly is?

(At higher pitch the drums seem smaller in relation to the original room, so it suggests that the room is bigger,...?? or not??)
One could make even more difference with a room with variabel absorption/reflection.

I haven’t had the opportunity to try it out yet, but could it be worth it?
Or am I overlooking something?... Loss of higher frequencies perhaps??)

Any suggestions are welcome of course.
Regards,
Phybeau

[mark.james]

Originally Posted by phybeau

I don’t know if I’m in the correct (sub)forum for this, if not, please forgive me..;-)


Consequently I have to record drums etcetera more or less dry, and add artificial reverb later on.

What if I replay (parts) of that dry recording into the same room at a higher speed/higher pitch and record this with ambience of that room?

I don't think playing back something recorded in a dead/dry room into a dead/dry room is going to give you any ambience, no matter what frequencies you are cutting/boosting.

Maybe reamp them in your control room?

Mark

[sleeper1400]

lol,

dude! WAY too much thought into this.
i only wanna help, no offense tho/

i started gettin' dizzy just readin' the post

just add some reverb and be done with it.

in a short answer, no.

[DanDan]

There is something in this IMHO. I reckon the higher pitched stimulus will get the room going in a denser modal frequency band. i.e. a more even area.
When this is scaled back down it should be even and longer. I don't see how it would be bigger, but more even yes. Intriguing though, thanks.
DD

[phybeau]

I forgot to subscribe so I comletely missed you replies.

Thanks for looking into this, I enyoyed your reactions!

I know it may be a little far fetched to get reverb on a mix this way...
The thought behind it was to create a unique reverb.
Whenever I get my rooms done, (and this means, not for a long time I'm afraid) I will experiment a little, and maybe post some results...

Thanks!
Phybeau

[TwardyLikeTank]

Do it!

Cool thinking.

I look forward to the results.

[phybeau]

Although my tracking room is far from finished I wanted to try out this experiment.

I recorded some drums in our rehearsal room.
The soundcard (Terratec EWS 88) and pre’s (SM-Pro Audio PR8E) in that room are not of the finest quality, but bear with me. ;-)
As a matter of fact I don’t even have a decent computer at the moment, so I borrowed one from my brother and recorded in Reaper: Two overheads, one kick and one snare.(no tom mics)

I played back the tracks in my raw/untreated ‘tracking room’ (see pictures) and recorded the reverb at different speeds.
It’s a small room, with mostly concrete walls. The dimensions can be seen in the sketch.
So the room, as it is, sounds horrible but it’s enough to show if the thought of the original post works.
(The idea is of course to give the impression that the room sounds bigger with the high speed/high pitch drums,...it still sounds as a horrible room, but a BIGGER horrible room...)



I played back mono and recorded also mono...again it’s just for the sake of the test.


- The first track are the drums ‘dry’ (as recorded at the rehearsal room)

- The second track are the drums together with the recorded reverb in real time (Rate 1 in Reaper)

- The third one are drums mixed with the recorded reverb at high speed (Rate 2 in Reaper and then played back at normal speed: Rate 1)

The quality of the recording, the balance of the mix etc. are far from ideal, but is meant to give you an idea,....hopefully.

Drums 15 april 2010 DRY.mp3
Drums 15 april 2010 Rate 1.mp3
Drums 15 april 2010 Rate 2.mp3


Let me know what you think...
Phybeau

[phybeau]

Maybe this shows more clearly the difference.
Just the reverb tracks this time at rate 1 and rate 2.

Looking forward to any comments

[petermichael]

it's late, so i may not be understanding completely, but it sounds like you are saying you are going to refeed the signal back into your little room, slightly modified and pick up some color from the room itself.

this may give you some small coloration that you may like, but i think the result will be a random novelty coloration. you are just adding the color of a small room into an effect loop. that's why we have software. unless you really like that sound you get. just know that sound is probably available in a modeled form in several of your plug-ins.

it works for what you are doing, but it is a hard modification that can't be undone. i like to effect naught until after recording is over. then i can undo. doing it your way, you will not be able to back off later. but if you like the sound of it, all other opinion be damned.

[phybeau]

Maybe I did not explain it right in the first place, at least I have a feeling that the point I’m trying to make is missed...;-)
I'll give it another try:


Great studios have their own ‘signature’ room sound.
In a home studio situation most of us don’t have the luxury of a large, good sounding room. (at least I don’t ;-)
That’s why I came up with the idea to make the size of the drums smaller in relation to the room and re-record the sound of that room:

During playback in a room I pitch the drums higher: the drums sound smaller, the room sounds still the same size.
I then record that.(room mics)
If I bring the recorded file back to the originale pitch/speed, the drums sound their original size but the recorded room sounds bigger.
This way you can create the illusion of a bigger room.

(You can add as much of that room sound as you like, and experiment with the pitch untill yoy hear something you like/need.)


There are of course millions of software options to create space, but I kinda like the idea of having your own (signature) room sound.
Needless to say that one still has to have a decent sounding small room. I don’t have that yet,...maybe in the near future.

Thanks again!
Phybeau

[Bubbakron]

Original echo chambers were just a cement room with a speaker and a mic!!!! I once had a similar idea, never got around to trying it. It was taking the digital reverb wet track and playing it through a nice speaker into a live room with ambience, so even though the reverb track was digital- it would still bounce of walls and get a more realistic tone back intoa mic. I also want to take a laptop, loud JBL speaker, and a mic and run it through actual halls/churchs/courthouse lobbies - whatever. SO i could get REAL reverb back into a good mic that I could take back to the studio and tweak it- timing would still be perfect.