What should the mixing engineer give me besides the stereo mix?

[mrkaves]

Hi everybody.

I was wondering what should the mixing engineer give me (or what do I need) besides the stereo mix. I've already spoken to him months ago about this (before he started mixing) but now he's finishing the mixes and I want to make sure I have everything I need so I don't bother him down the line.

I'm thinking of:

The same mix with the lead vocal a little bit louder/softer
The instrumental mix
The instrumental mix with background vocals.

Anything else?

Thanks very much!

Chris.

[Tarekith]

That should cover it!

[mrkaves]

Thanks!

So that should be it?

If I want the stems should he charge me for them?

[Tarekith]

That would be up to him, it does take time to do different renders like that. How much time depends on the gear (analog vs. ITB). I would think it would be a nominal charge, if anything.

[coffeecup77]

Hi mrkaves,

IMO, if you are producing, you are the owner of everything recorded. So if one day, say 1 or 2 or 10 years down the road, you want to remix those sessions, how are you going to do that if you don't have individual separate tracks ?

So buy a spare hard disk and have every track transfered there, check that you have everything, then make the engineer dump "his" files. If you had recorded on analog tape, you would be walking out with the reels wouldn't you ?

Of course, this is at the condition that YOU have PAID for everything, and have a written contract with the engineer recording, the musicians playing and the author and composer of the tunes.


Cheers.

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by coffeecup77

Hi mrkaves,

IMO, if you are producing, you are the owner of everything recorded. So if one day, say 1 or 2 or 10 years down the road, you want to remix those sessions, how are you going to do that if you don't have individual separate tracks ?

So buy a spare hard disk and have every track transfered there, check that you have everything, then make the engineer dump "his" files. If you had recorded on analog tape, you would be walking out with the reels wouldn't you ?

Of course, this is at the condition that YOU have PAID for everything, and have a written contract with the engineer recording, the musicians playing and the author and composer of the tunes.


Cheers.

that only says that you 'walk out" with anything you "walked IN" with... i.e. the multitrack

it doesn't entitle you to any aspect of the mixer's work beyond the mix

it's certainly reasonable to ASK for some "options", such as inst, tv track, vocal up and down, and so on...
but you basically pay for a mix.
not for the template of his work in getting there.

[coffeecup77]

Hi wwittman,

Of course, if you contracted for a mix (or 2 or 3 variations), you are right, you are entitled to that also. I totally understated this, sorry.

Here is a good discussion on this matter : Owning Masters.... What does it mean?

Cheers.

[mrkaves]

Great info guys, thanks!

I'll check out the other thread.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by mrkaves

Great info guys, thanks!

I'll check out the other thread.

You missed off a capella.

Otherwise, they deliver what you agreed they'd deliver when they did the mix quote for you.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

You missed off a capella.

Otherwise, they deliver what you agreed they'd deliver when they did the mix quote for you.

yup.


I deliver stems as well (for the proper paying gigs - not the cheapies!!)

[The Byre]

All the tracks as B-WAVs on DVD. We always do this, simply because it is their property and their responsibility.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by narcoman

yup.


I deliver stems as well (for the proper paying gigs - not the cheapies!!)

Absolutely. Doing full stems for a budget mix gig? no thanks! I'll do stems when it's been agreed (and paid for) in advance on a remote mixing gig, or if it's client attended, I'll do them but fit them into the paid for time.

Originally Posted by The Byre

All the tracks as B-WAVs on DVD. We always do this, simply because it is their property and their responsibility.

I've never understood the reluctance to supply session files either. I really couldn't care less if someone wants to take my session and look at what I've done. It's going to be limited by what plugins they have, what outboard I used etc anyway. And yes - let the client maintain their own backup! I usually take a copy in the short term (if I'm working on an outside client session, but no guarantees for the long-term), and I backup my own projects in triplicate....

[Musiclab]

Typically it's mix then a few variations, usually vocal up or down a TV track and an instrumental. Since I charge by the hour if you want to do stems that's ok by me. But most don't. I also give the client 2 DVD's with the mulitrack audio and project files, and the console automation data disk and recall sheets.

[jonathan jetter]

main mix. instrumental. a capella when needed.

i'll do vox up, vox down, bass up, TV track, etc etc if someone requests. but it's not standard. if they do need it, i build it into the rate.

i have only had a couple requests ever for stems. i've had various indie labels (and at least one subsidiary of a major) not even ask for instrumentals. happy to do stems as needed but again its built in to the rate.

[mrkaves]

Again, great info guys! I'm all about paying what is fair, I hate to ask for things for free since I'm also an engineer and I like to get paid for my work.

Take care

[Karloff70]

What you listed, an acappella and an invoice.

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by mrkaves

Hi everybody.

I was wondering what should the mixing engineer give me (or what do I need) besides the stereo mix. I've already spoken to him months ago about this (before he started mixing) but now he's finishing the mixes and I want to make sure I have everything I need so I don't bother him down the line.

I'm thinking of:

The same mix with the lead vocal a little bit louder/softer
The instrumental mix
The instrumental mix with background vocals.

Anything else?

Thanks very much!

Chris.

they should give you everythign you paid for

and they should charge you for everythign you ask for.

only you know what you will need and why you need it.

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

...
I've never understood the reluctance to supply session files either. I really couldn't care less if someone wants to take my session and look at what I've done. ...

we've had that LONG discussion ...
MOST professional mixers feel otherwise.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by wwittman

we've had that LONG discussion ...
MOST professional mixers feel otherwise.

I don't.

[SureSound]

usually its a good idea to have a few different mixes printed, it depends on the studio whether or not they charge extra for it, for low budget projects I would charge extra for it but, they never ask for anything besides the mix

for larger budget projects I will print several mixes anyway because they might have a need for them or they specifically ask for a mix without vocals ect.

as for giving away sessions, its something you're going to get charged for

[Musiclab]

giving away the sessions, once again yet another reason why I mix on a console with outboard, I give the client all of the recall data but unless they have what I have there is no mix session file.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by wwittman

we've had that LONG discussion ...
MOST professional mixers feel otherwise.

I think that's a massive generalisation. Someone has to store the mix session files, in case there's a recall later down the line (even after the album has come out, for single alternate mixes etc).

I think most mixers wouldn't want responsibility for backing up the mix files.

You can't have it both ways - it's either one or the other.

And before we're accused of thread derailment - yes, it is relevant here!

It was a bit different in the days of 2" - then the label could store the tape, and the mixer/studio the recall notes.

[wwittman]

So does Chris Lord-Alge or Bob Clearmountain give you a finished PT session with all the eq and processing included?
or do they keep a version in some format that allows THEM to do a recall but not you?

[Barish]

Originally Posted by wwittman

that only says that you 'walk out" with anything you "walked IN" with... i.e. the multitrack

it doesn't entitle you to any aspect of the mixer's work beyond the mix

it's certainly reasonable to ASK for some "options", such as inst, tv track, vocal up and down, and so on...
but you basically pay for a mix.
not for the template of his work in getting there.

Yep.

You get the output mixes.

No session files.

B.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by wwittman

So does Chris Lord-Alge or Bob Clearmountain give you a finished PT session with all the eq and processing included?
or do they keep a version in some format that allows THEM to do a recall but not you?

interesting question, but since it's NOT the mix why would that be a big deal.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by wwittman

So does Chris Lord-Alge or Bob Clearmountain give you a finished PT session with all the eq and processing included?
or do they keep a version in some format that allows THEM to do a recall but not you?

Seeing as CLA is still spooling to digital tape and mixing on a console - dunno!!! Doubt it'd be much use.

But many others do - including me. It's a lovely feeling not getting any "can you just...?" emails. You get emails contracting you to do further work.... much nicer - no argument about extra money (this is because they open it, try it and feck it up!!)

[wwittman]

that presumes they KNOW it's ****ed up.

I've seen it happen where someone takes a mixer's work on a single and tries to just reapply the 'template' of processing to the rest of the album to save money.

anyway, if the client wants a mix he gets a mix.
if he wants educational material, he can pay separately, and at a different rate, for that

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by wwittman

So does Chris Lord-Alge or Bob Clearmountain give you a finished PT session with all the eq and processing included?
or do they keep a version in some format that allows THEM to do a recall but not you?

As Narcoman points out, CLA is a special case. I'd imagine he's reusing his 3348 tape, so the stems are about all the recall they could do there I guess after the mixes have been signed off on.

As for other people, frequently the label supplies drives to take a backup of the session.

As Lou points out, if you use any outboard at all (and most still do of course) they're of limited use.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by wwittman

anyway, if the client wants a mix he gets a mix.
if he wants educational material, he can pay separately, and at a different rate, for that

I just can't be bothered in filtering all that! They get the whole lot from me.... but I do charge premium rates for a mix so it all balances out....

[wwittman]

well I suspect so do I (if "premium" has any meaningful definition).
but they get a mix.
that's all.

(and their multitrack back, the same way they gave it to me)