what is acceptable to charge for?

[fire hyena]

Is it common for engineers and studios to charge for drum editing and quantizing?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by fire hyena

Is it common for engineers and studios to charge for drum editing and quantizing?

Does it take time?

In that case, yes.

Otherwise - who does it?

[fire hyena]

I recently have had a client ask this question. Which caught me off guard. They recently tracked drums which were extremely complex. The drumkit consisted of 8 toms, 2 snares, quarter toms, 2 kick drums, and a ton of symbols. So editing is going to happen.

[RCM - Ronan]

It all depends on your deal. If you are working hourly, of course it is acceptable to charge. If you are doing an all in rate, it all depends on what you agreed to as "all in"

[sleepyhollos]

Depends on the agreement you've had I would imagine. I was once working in a studio where the owner would make deals with cltents where they only paid for recording. Mixing and editing was on the house, it was always trouble and caused more confusion and disagreements in the long run... I now have my own place and everything is on the hour. I'm selling time in the studio not individual services. If it takes me time it cost you money!

Best way. Very straight forward and no scope for misunderstandings.

[idylldon]

Well, in my world you either play it right or pay me to make it right. I'm no longer interested in freebies.

Cheers,
--
Don

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by fire hyena

Is it common for engineers and studios to charge for drum editing and quantizing?

of course

well....
if they want to make a profit and stay in business then they charge for everything

[joeq]

Originally Posted by fire hyena

I recently have had a client ask this question. Which caught me off guard. They recently tracked drums which were extremely complex. The drumkit consisted of 8 toms, 2 snares, quarter toms, 2 kick drums, and a ton of symbols. So editing is going to happen.

you either charge hourly or you build it into your flat rate

The thing about editing and pocketing (and tuning) is that worse the musicians, the harder you have to work, and then on top of that you don't get paid? .

not only is it bad for you to not get paid for the very real work you do, it is also VERY BAD for you to have your clients fail to understand how much your efforts are responsible for making them look good.

[Killahurts]

Yeah, charge for the time.

Another question that to me is more interesting is, what about tuning drums and arranging mics, etc. to get the right sounds? Do you charge for any of that, or only begin charging when tape begins to role?

I've been to different studios that handle that either way. I always started charging when the record light goes on, that way I could experiment freely (on my dime) to get the best sounds. Once though, I had a drummer come in and spend an entire day tuning his drums to record one song.. made me want to reconsider my policy.

[windmillsound]

I just charge for my time whatever it is. I always explain this up front. I tell a band that it will take a drummer at least an hour to set up (maybe more) and at least another hour to tune and mic the drums so that they sound good - if they have a large setup obviously more. I also explain that it is worth getting this right. If I do a weekend of tracking, I generally expect to do my first take around lunchtime Saturday. This is not wasted time and is certainly not unbilled time.

[fire hyena]

Thanks guys for the reassurance. I tell my clients up front what I do for their money. I don't charge for set up in most cases. However there are always exceptions. My rates are the most competitive in my area and it amazes me how many times I get artist who something for nothing. I was an artist first recording just kind of become what I was good at. So I understand the constraints of not having money. That's why I keep my rates low. Maybe I'm wrong and should charge more. You can find my work at firehyena.com Thanks again fellow gearslutz.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by fire hyena

So I understand the constraints of not having money. That's why I keep my rates low. Maybe I'm wrong and should charge more.

low or high, the point is to HAVE rates for what you do.

whatever your rates are, if you are working, you should be charging.

I usually don't charge a band for load-in time. For getting their stuff squared away time. But once I am setting up my end of things, I charge.

Hypothetically, I could raise my rates and give them "free setup time" and make the same money. But there is a huge problem with that. With 'free setup time', they don't appreciate how critical the proper placement of mics and gobos and cue levels really is. There is a principle involved in charging for these things.

In a real sense, your policies of charging are a way of 'educating' your clients, who may not understand the process and may undervalue what you do.

[Killahurts]

Originally Posted by joeq

low or high, the point is to HAVE rates for what you do.

whatever your rates are, if you are working, you should be charging.

I usually don't charge a band for load-in time. For getting their stuff squared away time. But once I am setting up my end of things, I charge.

Hypothetically, I could raise my rates and give them "free setup time" and make the same money. But there is a huge problem with that. With 'free setup time', they don't appreciate how critical the proper placement of mics and gobos and cue levels really is. There is a principle involved in charging for these things.

In a real sense, your policies of charging are a way of 'educating' your clients, who may not understand the process and may undervalue what you do.

Good post!

[therealbigd]

Basically what Psycho Monkey said.

You charge for your time, like everybody else in the world. If a carpenter spends time sanding a piece of wood, he charges for that. If a mechanic spends time wiping oil off after some work, he charges for that. You don't just charge for the primary element of the job, you charge your rate for the time you spend working on it.

[endorphin]

One more thing to consider is the client and how they can help your business in the future.

[jonathan jetter]

i charge for my time.

this includes: set up, tracking, editing, mixing, lunch breaks, file backups, 5 minutes of pacing if i need to leave the control room, etc.

i try to do good work, and to do so as quick as is reasonable, and so most of my clients do not feel troubled by that.

i'm not doing anything famous or making millions, but i am fortunately past the point of getting nickel-and-dimed by total newbie artists.

when i was younger, i got roped into all sorts of unpaid auxiliary hours. it sucked. i should have put my foot down sooner.

a handful of my very good friends get discounted rates, and no charge for the "extras" (backup time, FTP upload time, etc). but that's it.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Killahurts

Yeah, charge for the time.

Another question that to me is more interesting is, what about tuning drums and arranging mics, etc. to get the right sounds? Do you charge for any of that, or only begin charging when tape begins to role?

I've been to different studios that handle that either way. I always started charging when the record light goes on, that way I could experiment freely (on my dime) to get the best sounds. Once though, I had a drummer come in and spend an entire day tuning his drums to record one song.. made me want to reconsider my policy.

You book a session, your clock starts from the time you agree to start, the day ends after the booked time.

What happens in that period is up to the band. If they want to spend 6hrs getting a drum sound, and 10 minutes tracking it, fine. If they want to record an album in a day, fine.

It's reasonable to expect some setup in advance - in a high end studio, the engineer will usually communicate to the assistant what the setup is, and it's not unreasonable to expect mics etc to be ready for line checking when the engineer gets there. Within reason - if it's hours of setup, build that into the rate! But you can't get sounds till the band is there, so that happens on the clock.

Teardown time is not usually in the day rate. Backing up may well be though - if it can happen overnight or while packing down, it would be mean to charge. But if you're kept at work because the band need a copy that evening - chargeable.

Anything else is up to the individuals concerned. If there's a technical problem that loses time, that would not usually be charged for (or the session might incur some uncharged overtime). most people would cut a good client some slack and not charge for small amounts of overtime. If there's a drastic error by the staff (hopefully rare!) the time to fix it would not be charged. Otherwise - on the clock.

[ThisIsSka]

I charge for setups, I ask my performers to arrive a bit early so they can get their stuff in and get warmed up etc. But when I'm working it's chargeable.

I sometimes do a pseudo-'all-in' deal. All of my quotes stipulate that although I am tracking/mixing/whatever, there is a maximum number of studio hours, and a deadline that the studio time needs to be used by, that will go in. If they want more time, they have to pay extra for it. (Also, unused studio time vanishes once the project is completed).

I also make session logs, where I clock times-in and times-out and we both sign the sheet and keep a copy each. These logs are made even in unattended sessions. It's surprising how many clients stop being tardy when they see "waiting for client" as the first item on the session log. :D

I don't charge for: My lunch break, delays from faulty equipment, delays incurred by myself or the studio. If a session overruns by 10 minutes I don't usually bother to charge it (but tell them I'm doing them a favour!)