Dealing with payment from unsigned bands.

[jordanvoth]

I'm wondering how you guys deal with getting paid from unsigned bands. A lot of signed bands simply don't worry about this and you establish a relationship with that band that doesn't involve money or a boss/employee dynamic. Any suggestions? Comments? Am I making sense here?

[Tarekith]

I always require payment up front, no exceptions if it's somone I haven't worked with before. After we've done a few things together, I'm more lenient on that policy.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

I'm wondering how you guys deal with getting paid from unsigned bands. A lot of signed bands simply don't worry about this and you establish a relationship with that band that doesn't involve money or a boss/employee dynamic. Any suggestions? Comments? Am I making sense here?

money first
work later

no credit no terms no nothing but cash

money talks bullbleep walks

[psycho_monkey]

Upfront, or before anything leaves the studio. I never send out full mixes unless I know and trust the person, or I have been paid.

[Musiclab]

I charge by the hour and I get paid at the end of the day. If it's a steady client there can be some slack from that, but paid at the end of the session is my policy

[jonathan jetter]

i tried the "half now, half later" policy.

i ended up waiting for months on thousands of dollars.

moving forward, it will be the "pay up front" policy for flat-rate gigs. or the "pay for each day at the end of the day" policy for daily bookings.

i am so sick of taking gigs where people tell me they've got the $$$ but don't. of dealing with half-assed excuses for why the money's 3 months late. of people just flat-out not understanding that i need my $$$ on time the same way the grocery store needs its $$$ on time.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by jonathan jetter

i tried the "half now, half later" policy.

i ended up waiting for months on thousands of dollars.

moving forward, it will be the "pay up front" policy for flat-rate gigs. or the "pay for each day at the end of the day" policy for daily bookings.

i am so sick of taking gigs where people tell me they've got the $$$ but don't. of dealing with half-assed excuses for why the money's 3 months late. of people just flat-out not understanding that i need my $$$ on time the same way the grocery store needs its $$$ on time.

should be pay every day at the start fo the day
never at the end

way too many folks forgot their wallets
or their wife borrowed the money they say they had
or just hand you jive and refuse to pay then
saying they will do it later or ......

ALL TEH CASH UP FRONT !!
NO CHECKS
NO CREDIT CARDS
NO BULLSTUFF
just cash - and gold coins preferred over paper

[Matt@Oracle.]

I've never had a real problem with a half up front, half at the end of the session policy. Same deal for mixing as well, we just stipulate in our terms and conditions that the client doesn't receive anything until payment is made in full. We also ask for the deposit a month before the first day of the session, that tends to help with last minute cancellations.

[windmillsound]

I never let a mix out of the studio without payment - it really is that simple.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by TempleStudios

I've never had a real problem with a half up front, half at the end of the session policy. Same deal for mixing as well, we just stipulate in our terms and conditions that the client doesn't receive anything until payment is made in full. We also ask for the deposit a month before the first day of the session, that tends to help with last minute cancellations.

lucky you

wait until they dont like how they did
and dont pay the second half

get all the money up front !
better get 2x the money up front

if they show up and use the time then refund half
2x gives them incentive to actually use the time they booked
so it doesnt go wasted

[kittonian]

1/2 up front to book the session
1/2 on the first day of the session before we begin
overages collected at the end of the session before any final materials are released

all checks must clear before any materials are released

[jimmyboy7]

A LOT OF GOOD ADVICE!!!!! Sad but true....I usually do the half n half gig with the first half day one. However, I am leaning towards the 50% down to book the time

[solo-bration]

End of each day, or no next day. And nothing leaves until they're all paid.

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

should be pay every day at the start fo the day
never at the end

way too many folks forgot their wallets
or their wife borrowed the money they say they had
or just hand you jive and refuse to pay then
saying they will do it later or ......

ALL TEH CASH UP FRONT !!
NO CHECKS
NO CREDIT CARDS
NO BULLSTUFF
just cash - and gold coins preferred over paper

+1

[narcoman]

amateur clients? 50% on booking. Next 30% at start of recording. Final 20% at end.

[los marbles]

One thing that should be mentioned. It may be tough to get bands to fork over a pile of dough up front if you have no rep.

I have had bands come in who tell me horror stories about dirt-bag recordists who ripped them off. A band like that may be wary to hand you all their savings without knowing much about you.

If you are building your rep, get them to pay daily. Once you are established and people know your work, they wont mind at all paying up front.

[SureSound]

you need to have everything in writing, and legally its hard to prove anything if you don't have a hard copy, its best to get paid upfront or at least require a deposit for each day booked for insurance that you get paid and so the band has a reason to show up when they're scheduled for.

if you ended up making a verbal commitment with no payment upfront then you'll have to rely on the mix as your only leverage, aka don't give them any copies of the recordings/mixes unless they paid you in full,

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by los marbles

One thing that should be mentioned. It may be tough to get bands to fork over a pile of dough up front if you have no rep.

I have had bands come in who tell me horror stories about dirt-bag recordists who ripped them off. A band like that may be wary to hand you all their savings without knowing much about you.

If you are building your rep, get them to pay daily. Once you are established and people know your work, they wont mind at all paying up front.

they are free to go somewhere else
and i encourage them to do that

if they were not happy before
then they may be problem clients
who wont be happy anywhere
i dont need that hassle

and not going to hassle getting paid
ALL THE CASH UP FRONT
TWICE THE AMOUNT IF YOU RESERVE TIME
will give back half if yo ushow up and use the time
so you pay the normal rate
but no show me and you lose it all

[dimag333]

they get their mix when I get my money

[spiderman]

I've got a few corporate clients and that is a bit different for me. They always make agreements, sign contracts, and then I send an invoice to their billing dept or secretary. Half upfront for $1k or more. Otherwise pay after completion. Never had a client not pay.

[Papanate]

I've never understood how and when studios became thought of as banks that fund bands. Anywhere else in the world...Hotels, Grocery Stores, Clothing Stores etc...you don't get stuff for free because you have a tune.

Of course during the last Presidential Election I remember not letting the gear off my trucks for a show that was happening in 10 hours while John McCain's staff tried to come up with a cashiers check. But then again I'm black and white like that.

[Larry Crane]

from our site:

"All mixes, CD-Rs, hard drives, master tapes, etc. shall remain the property of Jackpot! Recording Studio, Inc. until all invoices are paid in full.

We require a $100 per day deposit in advance at time of booking - payable by Visa, MasterCard or check. Your deposit will not be refunded if the session is cancelled with less than one month's notice. Exceptions will be made for serious illness or death, not for lack of rehearsal time or lack of money."

Payment is due at the end of a work day.

I've been more screwed over by labels than independent groups. Sub Pop nearly put me out of business with a 4 month wait for a check once. But honestly, we've had 2 people end up running out on tabs over 15 years. One moron owed me $40 and I still had his reel so I sold it to someone else many years later. The other was a ********* who skipped out on $200 or so. I've never asked for 1/2 up front and never for money the day of a sessions before I'd proved it with my work.

[jonathan jetter]

Originally Posted by Papanate

Of course during the last Presidential Election I remember not letting the gear off my trucks for a show that was happening in 10 hours while John McCain's staff tried to come up with a cashiers check. But then again I'm black and white like that.

not to get all political, but that's pretty awesome.

[Larry Crane]

John McCain's songs suck anyway...

[Mbear1596]

I have contracts in place. basically 1/2 when the contract is signed and the project is booked. I work by "X" amount per song, or project price (up to a certain of typical average time i spend on a song). the band receives no cd until the final product is completed and i have received the second half of the total. they are only allowed "X" amount of revisions.

everything is broken down into minimum and maximum time allotted per portion of the recording (pre-pro, set up/break down,tracking, editing, mixing, mastering) i even have options of album art, video epk's, how many guests are allowed in the studio and what parts of the process they are allowed to see. (sign in/out required) additional engineers, tech's, assistants.

all of this and more is factored in the contracts. no bs. no games. business.
if they can't understand that, then they can go to their buddies "home studio" and record on a mac book with garage band for all i care.

-M

[Capt Hair]

I do a deposit, $200 non refundable deposit is due to book your session dates, all sessions must be booked at least two weeks in advance. That $200 goes towards the price of your sessions. Only gets funded for serious emergencies, and I background check the said emergency.

Seems to really keep the less serious bands away, and if for some reason, a session falls through or the band just doesn't come back to pay, I at least get something for the trouble.

[SignalAudio]

Originally Posted by kittonian

1/2 up front to book the session
1/2 on the first day of the session before we begin
overages collected at the end of the session before any final materials are released

all checks must clear before any materials are released

same here.

[ScratchNSurf]

Well shotguns are generally effective for securing payments

[SGX]

i take a 20% down payment for advance booking so say if someone booked 3 days at $200 a day in july. they would pay me 1200 to reserve those dates and then the rest when they arrive in the studio to record. or else no tracking begins... unless its someone you trust of course then it doesnt matter

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Larry Crane

John McCain's songs suck anyway...

Is he Edwin McCain's Brother? Edwin's not bad.....