GS PLEASE:Business evaluation needed!!! Are residential studios history?

[mario.junicic]

Hello GS!

Everybody - Please comment this!!
Business evaluation needed! :-)
Simply Yes or No answer - it would be huge help!

I'm planning to build residential studio. But some people sad to me that residential studios are history, or at least not so visited anymore - in general.

What worrys me?- Nowadays ways of life and making music:
Way of life in general is changed during last few decades. Everybody is much more occupied doing this and that and in lack of time.
Way of making albums are rapidly changing - recording in few different world location/ few pro studios / even more home studios - ALL on one project. Many times musician that played same song don't even met.
That is opposed:-( in the way that residential studio works.

My future studio:
Pictures in my other thread - it is preliminary(!) design only
Include equipment list below(short one)
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/656250-check-my-future-studio-preliminary-project-3d.html

Location:
It is located in Croatia - which is very beautiful country in mid-east Europe.
Tourism is only thing that really works well here :-( Specially in all this economic crisis. Local music projects are very low-budget.

General:
My plan is to build residential studio (sort of villa with pool) with beautiful sea view. I plan to do rent it for tourists, rehearsals and as recording/mixing studio. That way I'll be booked most of the time(or at least more than just studio alone).

Connection with other countrys:
- 9km from terrain is small airport with flights to main European cities relatively frequent
- 3km form terrain is new modern highway - direct connection to all major country highways

My personal background:
I'm in the music business 12years now. I'm an recording/mixing engineer and I do only that for a living. I do not produce. I have a partner how does.
I can work as an assistant if foreign engineer is hired by clients.

Prices:
When compared to other European studios with same quality level (acoustic design/equipment/accommodation) and in this case much greater location(from tourist poin of view) it will be at least 30% cheaper that any others. Maybe even more.
It is mostly because of our country lower standard and lower expectations.

Marketing:
I will(should) be connected with UK studio booking agencies and also planing to do standard internet/e-mail marketing. Nothing extra.

My expectations:
I don't expect miraclesat at all. I will be booked 3-4 month with regular tourists and around 3-4 with local projects. So, I need maybe around 3-4 month foreign projects.

Questions:
1.) Are residential studios "out" in your opinion - in general ?

2.) Can this currently described studio potentially work well? Assuming that it's comparable(on all matters) with European competition(and with lower prices).

3.) Can studio itself attract clients? Excluding people.

4.) How do you look at country like Croatia? I hope you heard of it...
Do you think - Is that location psychological barrier?
- just because it's not UK or USA or other countries with huge making music history

Thanks for you answers and help :-)

Mario.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by mario.junicic

Everybody - Please comment this!!
Business evaluation needed! :-)
Simply Yes or No answer - it would be huge help!

History? No.

A very risky investment? Most certainly yes.


This is not 1980 anymore.

If you're doing it, do it for the love of it and because you have the extra money to blow. If you NEED to make your investment and a reasonable return on that investment back from a studio in Croatia, you should be very careful.....

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by mario.junicic

Hello GS!

Everybody - Please comment this!!
Business evaluation needed! :-)
Simply Yes or No answer - it would be huge help!

I'm planning to build residential studio. But some people sad to me that residential studios are history, or at least not so visited anymore - in general.

What worrys me?- Nowadays ways of life and making music:
Way of life in general is changed during last few decades. Everybody is much more occupied doing this and that and in lack of time.
Way of making albums are rapidly changing - recording in few different world location/ few pro studios / even more home studios - ALL on one project. Many times musician that played same song don't even met.
That is opposed:-( in the way that residential studio works.

My future studio:
Pictures in my other thread - it is preliminary(!) design only
Include equipment list below(short one)
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/656250-check-my-future-studio-preliminary-project-3d.html

Location:
It is located in Croatia - which is very beautiful country in mid-east Europe.
Tourism is only thing that really works well here :-( Specially in all this economic crisis. Local music projects are very low-budget.

General:
My plan is to build residential studio (sort of villa with pool) with beautiful sea view. I plan to do rent it for tourists, rehearsals and as recording/mixing studio. That way I'll be booked most of the time(or at least more than just studio alone).

Connection with other countrys:
- 9km from terrain is small airport with flights to main European cities relatively frequent
- 3km form terrain is new modern highway - direct connection to all major country highways

My personal background:
I'm in the music business 12years now. I'm an recording/mixing engineer and I do only that for a living. I do not produce. I have a partner how does.
I can work as an assistant if foreign engineer is hired by clients.

Prices:
When compared to other European studios with same quality level (acoustic design/equipment/accommodation) and in this case much greater location(from tourist poin of view) it will be at least 30% cheaper that any others. Maybe even more.
It is mostly because of our country lower standard and lower expectations.

Marketing:
I will(should) be connected with UK studio booking agencies and also planing to do standard internet/e-mail marketing. Nothing extra.

My expectations:
I don't expect miraclesat at all. I will be booked 3-4 month with regular tourists and around 3-4 with local projects. So, I need maybe around 3-4 month foreign projects.

Questions:
1.) Are residential studios "out" in your opinion - in general ?

2.) Can this currently described studio potentially work well? Assuming that it's comparable(on all matters) with European competition(and with lower prices).

3.) Can studio itself attract clients? Excluding people.

4.) How do you look at country like Croatia? I hope you heard of it...
Do you think - Is that location psychological barrier?
- just because it's not UK or USA or other countries with huge making music history

Thanks for you answers and help :-)

Mario.

no

who are your clients?
tourists?? or locals

how many locals would rent studio time ??

residential studios are not history
but most are only used by the owner
(and their band/group or similar)

residential studios that rent out
get far too many cheap low end clients
higher end either has their own studio available
or rents a higher end non-home studio

with your estimates it could work

croatia has some beautiful locations
but not really attractive to us tourists
maybe euro folks are less apprehensive

[mario.junicic]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

no

who are your clients?
I'm in the business 12 years now and I have lot of mainly local clients
pop/rock bands and solo artist
also commercials, jazz, voice-over and so
My current studio works on daily basis but mostly on low-budget project


tourists?? or locals
tourist agency will take care tourists - that is for sure
last years croatia is doing very-very good in tourism
problems in Middle East also contributions to that

how many locals would rent studio time ??
as I sad earlier
4 month tourism (without studio)
4 month local projects (I have regular clients)
4 month - ?? hope for residential music clients

residential studios are not history
but most are only used by the owner
(and their band/group or similar)

residential studios that rent out
get far too many cheap low end clients
higher end either has their own studio available
or rents a higher end non-home studio

This would be mid-size, mid-quality and mid-price studio.
Not utra-high end and far from home-studio.


with your estimates it could work

I hope so. Thanks.

croatia has some beautiful locations
but not really attractive to us tourists

I live in tourist location. Here a lot of tourist during summer.

maybe euro folks are less apprehensive

germany, italy and other cental-european country tourist are most common here.

Thanks from opinion and help!

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by mario.junicic

General:
My plan is to build residential studio (sort of villa with pool) with beautiful sea view. I plan to do rent it for tourists, rehearsals and as recording/mixing studio. That way I'll be booked most of the time(or at least more than just studio alone).

Connection with other countrys:
- 9km from terrain is small airport with flights to main European cities relatively frequent
- 3km form terrain is new modern highway - direct connection to all major country highways

My personal background:
I'm in the music business 12years now. I'm an recording/mixing engineer and I do only that for a living. I do not produce. I have a partner how does.
I can work as an assistant if foreign engineer is hired by clients.

Prices:
When compared to other European studios with same quality level (acoustic design/equipment/accommodation) and in this case much greater location(from tourist poin of view) it will be at least 30% cheaper that any others. Maybe even more.
It is mostly because of our country lower standard and lower expectations.

Marketing:
I will(should) be connected with UK studio booking agencies and also planing to do standard internet/e-mail marketing. Nothing extra.

My expectations:
I don't expect miracles at at all. I will be booked 3-4 month with regular tourists and around 3-4 with local projects. So, I need maybe around 3-4 month foreign projects.

Questions:
1.) Are residential studios "out" in your opinion - in general ?

2.) Can this currently described studio potentially work well? Assuming that it's comparable(on all matters) with European competition(and with lower prices).

3.) Can studio itself attract clients? Excluding people.

4.) How do you look at country like Croatia? I hope you heard of it...
Do you think - Is that location psychological barrier?
- just because it's not UK or USA or other countries with huge making music history

When I am not running a residential studio, I run a business and am a business adviser, so here goes -

To your questions -

1. Out? Yes. If the thing is bought and paid for (inc. building) and you have other sources of income, you can do it - but I know of one residential studio that has a book price of £1,200 for the main room and £800 for the second room, that is now renting out for £300 for either room. And that is Neve, 150 sq m live room and all the toys. Like the man says, it is not the 80s any more and people who have a few thousand to spend on a recording, buy a home rig or work in a city centre studio. Timing is important in business and a residential studio was a reasonable proposition in 1978.

2. Will it work and attract clients? No. It is a city centre mix room in a holiday location. Even in the 80s, it would not have worked. The live room is just too small and there does not seem to be any of the things that a tracking room requires, such as a concert grand piano, Hammond, Wurly, Rhodes, loads of back-line and above all, space.

3. Is studio attractive? It looks nice, but, to be honest, it is a holiday home with a studio built in.

4. Croatia? I love Croatia and unlike where we are, it's WARM! It sounds like you are near Zadar. The location is great, assuming that the airport gets cheap flights from across Europe.

5. Location? See above.
______________________________________________________

And now a basic business first primer - your business model (such as it is) - I shall go through the five things that I look for in any start-up -

1. What can I make?

What do similar businesses earn in the same area and with the same level of know-how and investment. Is this business scalable? A recording studio is definitely NOT scalable - you cannot reduce the day rate to $10 and sell one million days! Your hope for nine months bookings to make this business work is hopelessly optimistic.

2. What can I loose?

Interest costs, opportunity cost, depreciation, etc. Yes, I did say opportunity cost and depreciation, the two things that studio owners seem to never calculate!

3. What is the USP (unique selling point)?

Why would customers come to you and not the other guy? You have a swimming pool and warm weather, but that makes it a holiday destination and not a working studio. All the people I know, want to either track in a great room, or mix in a city centre. There is a market for residential tracking, but it is a bloody small market (I should know!) and you need other things bolted onto it.

4. What is plan B?

Exactly how do you propose to pull the business around, if the customers stay away in droves? You will have to have this safety net, to lessen the risk. It sounds to me, regular tourism is your plan B and to be perfectly frank, plan B sounds like it might work a whole lot better than plan A!

5. Says who?

Expert opinions are an absolute MUST on the viability of your plans from such people as market researchers, industry insiders, economists and experienced business people. People send me stuff like this (video facilities in the countryside, plane rides in the mountains, studios, etc., etc.) on a regular basis and the answer is always (sadly) that it is seldom, if ever, a viable business.
_________________________________________________

It looks to me, as if you have earmarked about €100,000 (probably more!) for the studio equipment and that kind of money is best spent elsewhere, investing in a proper business. What you do not perhaps know, is that there are dozens of far, far better studios out there that rival some of the best rooms in the World that are the playthings of the very rich. For them to spend a couple of million on a studio, a helicopter, a boat or any other mad toy is quite normal.

If you invest that money in a proper and scalable business, you stand a good chance of becoming one of those very rich that can have a far better studio (on a boat, perhaps!) just for fun!

What you have outlined here at great detail is your dream. As Dr Bill says, if you have money to burn, well - go for it. But if you need this to pay the bills, then you are 100% doomed to failure. Sorry, but that's the way it is!

A dream is not a business and you MUST remember that you are wearing a business hat here. Now is a great time to start a business, but this just is not a proper business!

The tourist trade and the music business seldom cross paths. The main source of tourism for your area is Germany and you have to decide, 'Do I want a business, or a studio?'

Either way, Germany is where you have to make you marketing effort and not the UK and the US. Croatia should be crawling with fat middle-aged German tourists looking for a great place to stay - offer them a small sailing boat, use of the pool and nice rooms and food and you might have a business.

[mario.junicic]

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOU HELP !
SEE MY COMMENTS BELOW:[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by The Byre

When I am not running a residential studio, I run a business and am a business adviser, so here goes -

To your questions -

1. Out? Yes. If the thing is bought and paid for (inc. building) and you have other sources of income, you can do it - but I know of one residential studio that has a book price of £1,200 for the main room and £800 for the second room, that is now renting out for £300 for either room. And that is Neve, 150 sq m live room and all the toys. Like the man says, it is not the 80s any more and people who have a few thousand to spend on a recording, buy a home rig or work in a city centre studio. Timing is important in business and a residential studio was a reasonable proposition in 1978.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]I'm aware of all that, As i sad earlier - I don't expect miracles :-)[/COLOR]


2. Will it work and attract clients? No. It is a city centre mix room in a holiday location. Even in the 80s, it would not have worked. The live room is just too small and there does not seem to be any of the things that a tracking room requires, such as a concert grand piano, Hammond, Wurly, Rhodes, loads of back-line and above all, space.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]I did't write complete equipment list. I have some of those and plan to buy staff that you mentioned.Much large room will take this idea far from where it should be (when everything is taken into account)[/COLOR]


3. Is studio attractive? It looks nice, but, to be honest, it is a holiday home with a studio built in.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]Yes - absolutely! [/COLOR]

4. Croatia? I love Croatia and unlike where we are, it's WARM! It sounds like you are near Zadar. The location is great, assuming that the airport gets cheap flights from across Europe.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]Šmrika is near Rijeka and near island of Krk (Croatian largest island).
It is 280 km north of Zadar.
North adriatic(sea) part of Croatia is most wanted for tourism because tourists mainly came with cars and that is closest to Croatia-EU brder.
Šmrika is 50km from border.
90% of tourist are coming here with cars, 10% with plain.It is small airport but it is connected o.k. Trieste(Italy) has bigger airport and is 100km(1:30h) or Zagreb 164km(1:45h)( [/COLOR]


5. Location? See above.
______________________________________________________

And now a basic business first primer - your business model (such as it is) - I shall go through the five things that I look for in any start-up -

1. What can I make?

What do similar businesses earn in the same area and with the same level of know-how and investment. Is this business scalable? A recording studio is definitely NOT scalable - you cannot reduce the day rate to $10 and sell one million days! Your hope for nine months bookings to make this business work is hopelessly optimistic.

WHY??
It is could be fine enough. It all depends on studio/villa prices.
And it's also depends - do you booked everything by your self or with agencies(tourist and studio).
Difference may be 20-25%.
9 months booked by your-self = 11moth booked with agencies !!!


2. What can I loose?

Interest costs, opportunity cost, depreciation, etc. Yes, I did say opportunity cost and depreciation, the two things that studio owners seem to never calculate!

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]I'm also that "studio owner" :-))[/COLOR]


3. What is the USP (unique selling point)?

Why would customers come to you and not the other guy? You have a swimming pool and warm weather, but that makes it a holiday destination and not a working studio. All the people I know, want to either track in a great room, or mix in a city centre.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]I mostly mix without clients. Sometimes they are far away.
[/COLOR]
There is a market for residential tracking, but it is a bloody small market (I should know!) and you need other things bolted onto it.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]My unique selling point(for residential studio) : far better quality/price ratio that can be found any in Europe city or residential studio :-(
Bend of 4 will pay the plain tickets + 10 days in studio(24/7) with tourism component + food/drink + fun ____ and they sill will save some money left
ALL that - in comparison with "Studio only" deal in there city.
--------------
You must understand, Croatia is basically poor country - in general.
Just to get the picture: year average wage is : 9 000 EU (11 700$ per year!!)
- if you are lucky to have a job
- it is getting worse - that way I want non-native clients.
Germany : 40 000 - 50 000 EU (65 000$)
USA : somewhere close to Germany (?)
We are surrounded with countries that have at least 2 X our standard or much more. That is the catch! Unfortunately ...:-(
This doesn't mean that we live miserly - on the contrary - every single foreigner can confirm that.
I saw much more really-poor people in one hour in NYC than in my whole life here.....

So, my satisfactory financial result would be far below that you can imagine.
I now that is bad - but that is simply the way it is here.

And anyone how is working with non-native people most of the time somehow have money....
[/COLOR]


4. What is plan B?

Exactly how do you propose to pull the business around, if the customers stay away in droves? You will have to have this safety net, to lessen the risk. It sounds to me, regular tourism is your plan B and to be perfectly frank, plan B sounds like it might work a whole lot better than plan A!

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]We are talking in my case of 3 jobs:
A) Tourism - people I know build similar objects only for tourism are it profitable (they will not get real rich - but it's o.k.)

B) Local studio projects :
- I'm doing it for 12-14 years now - and I have regular clients
- I will get even more local clients - because it will be "the best" local studio without any doubt
- but then I will lose some because it will be more expensive - that way I said 3-4 moth for local project (now I have 9-10 moth booked)

B-b) Local(whole country) project + Slovenia(nearest country)
- once in a while I have clients that are not from my city
- major problem in work with them regularly is lack of accommodation and very-very small space at my current studio
- we are talking of 3 million people area(vice versa 300 000 people in my local area) !!
- that is something!

C) Residential studio

------
My first idea was residential studio complex with 3 studios - 2 in rent and 1 my own....
So this is already compromise with "business" included.
------
Besides - I can keep my prices up (for studio) during summer and don't have to doing unprofitable discounts. This is GREAT! And for those who will pay full price - they can come recording/mixing in the middle of summer. Full-price studio is better that "rent it for tourists"(just to be clear)

Conclusion:
I will survive without any residential clients for UK or Germany or so. That is doubtless. Although - I always dreamed that I would be rich :-)))) LOL[/COLOR]


5. Says who?

Expert opinions are an absolute MUST on the viability of your plans from such people as market researchers, industry insiders, economists and experienced business people. People send me stuff like this (video facilities in the countryside, plane rides in the mountains, studios, etc., etc.) on a regular basis and the answer is always (sadly) that it is seldom, if ever, a viable business.
_________________________________________________

It looks to me, as if you have earmarked about €100,000 (probably more!) for the studio equipment and that kind of money is best spent elsewhere, investing in a proper business. What you do not perhaps know, is that there are dozens of far, far better studios out there that rival some of the best rooms in the World that are the playthings of the very rich. For them to spend a couple of million on a studio, a helicopter, a boat or any other mad toy is quite normal.

If you invest that money in a proper and scalable business, you stand a good chance of becoming one of those very rich that can have a far better studio (on a boat, perhaps!) just for fun!

What you have outlined here at great detail is your dream. As Dr Bill says, if you have money to burn, well - go for it. But if you need this to pay the bills, then you are 100% doomed to failure. Sorry, but that's the way it is!

A dream is not a business and you MUST remember that you are wearing a business hat here. Now is a great time to start a business, but this just is not a proper business!

----------------
Well, you are right! But we are here on gearslutz!
Some of us : "lives for gear" and some are "gear addict"
... it is sort of sickness :-)) really
Only thing I ever do is - studio / recording / mixing and I never had I problem to work 10 or 12 hours or more (until I got married:-)
So - it is passion and hobby... and I got payed for that!
You can put price on that!



The tourist trade and the music business seldom cross paths. The main source of tourism for your area is Germany and you have to decide, 'Do I want a business, or a studio?'

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]I explained that earlier.
I want it booth. Besides I already own equipment(and will sell my current studio place) and house will be empty 7-9months - so why keep it empty ? [/COLOR]

Either way, Germany is where you have to make you marketing effort and not the UK and the US. Croatia should be crawling with fat middle-aged German tourists looking for a great place to stay - offer them a small sailing boat, use of the pool and nice rooms and food and you might have a business.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]Is my Plan A.[/COLOR]


--------------

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]BTW - you are residential studio owner - are you satisfied? From business point of view.


Thanks again for your comments!
Sorry for my poor English.

Mario.[/COLOR]

[mario.junicic]

the brye
SORRY FOR MY LAST REPLAY
I WENT TO PAUSE AND "SUBMIT REPLY" WOULD'T WORK
SO I COPY-PASTE EVERYTHING AND SUBMIT AGAIN BUT MY COLORED COMMENTS WENT WRONG.
I HOPE YOU WILL READ IT ANYWAY BECAUSE - YOU HAVE SOMETHING GOOD TO SAY!!

THANKS FOR YOU COMMENTS!

MARIO.

[drBill]

unreadable for me...... Good luck with your project.

[The Byre]

I did manage to plough my way through that lot!

If you have the equipment anyway, then this could just possibly work after a fashion. Do you actually have a Neve and in good working order, PT and all the mics etc.?

If so, then by all means stick them in a room.

BUT

Here are some hard truths for you -

1. EVERY successful band, engineer and producer has their own studio nowadays. They all have rehearsal rooms and it is just a case of getting a few bits and pieces and adding to that.

2. More and more music is 'created' in post production. It is less and less of a live performance, so the need for real tracking rooms has diminished alarmingly. Classical, folk and jazz still need rooms.

3. The prices for studio time in the UK and Germany is right down. You are competing with people who are practically giving it away! I kid you not!

4. Nearly all recording is not rock music, but all the other stuff, film, pipe bands, choirs, you name it and it is being recorded. But rock and pop at grass roots level just has no money, so they all do it at home.

_____________________________________________________

And now comes the real kicker -

I ran your entire thing past my wife and she asked me a very good question - which one of our customers would actually be able to book your room?

None of them.

Why? Well, the classical piano boys can't because you don't have the piano or the room for that. The jazz people can't, for pretty much the same reason. The rock people might, but then the studio is rather small and they would HAVE to be local, as they absolutely need all their toys (backline, guitars, drums etc.) And you can't get a small orchestra or choir or similar in there and these people can ONLY record locally.

The practicalities of using your place are dreadful for the non-local. You can't hire-in stuff at short notice, as you can in London or NY, you can't fly there with all your gear, the room is too small, I could just go on and on . . .

The days of groovy rock-gods flying private planes to remote islands to record in the sunshine for silly money are over. They go to well-equipped city centre studios that are lean, mean tracking machines!

So, what does all that lot add up to?

LOCAL BUSINESS

Drop the whole idea of building your dream studio and concentrate on building a lean, mean tracking machine. Get the local trade and don't waste one minute worrying about whether you can get the windswept and groovy from London, LA or Paris.

You live in a country where labour is cheap, so build a bigger room, forget the pool (if you want to swim, jump in the Adriatic and swim between the turds!). I have just built a 130 sq m workshop, with combined mastering room and upper floor for storage for £5,000. Yes, £5,000! (The price of two good Neumanns!) You live in a country where you can get timber from the local sawmill for pennies and labour for a few €uros an hour - use that situation to your advantage!

Spend NOTHING on flash equipment. The days of equipment are over. The next big thing in recording will be desks and DAWs all on touch-screens and costing NOTHING. One Alphalink, two massive touch-screens and some native software (Logic, PT, Reaper, whatever) and you are done!

Spend your money on the things people want and need. That is a piano, Hammond and above all SPACE!

Do it all cheaply and you will still be the biggest and the baddest studio in town! Add a cheap mobile using pretty much the same stuff, but a cheap analogue desk for live-outs all in a trailer and do live hi-def DVDs as well. Work with a local video company. DVDs are the real CDs of today!

Or do the tourism thing, as I suggested. Much less hassle and more money.

[mario.junicic]

THE BYRE, THANK YOU FOR YOU HELP!

MY COMMENTS:

Originally Posted by The Byre

I did manage to plough my way through that lot!

If you have the equipment anyway, then this could just possibly work after a fashion. Do you actually have a Neve and in good working order, PT and all the mics etc.?

- I have 36ch/8groups/6aux/TTpatchbays/P&G - Neve series 53 - very good condition
- Manly discrete electorinc - 56 audio transformers inside
- 15 summary moduls 3415(mic pres)
- Minus-don't have original eq-s abut I have lot of them in outboard
- host for 33114 & 33115 moduls
- I own lot of outboard and enough mics
I don't have PT - that I should purchase
------------------

If so, then by all means stick them in a room.

BUT

Here are some hard truths for you -

1. EVERY successful band, engineer and producer has their own studio nowadays. They all have rehearsal rooms and it is just a case of getting a few bits and pieces and adding to that.

BUT What about B or C category. I know that "first class" will not even think over but there are others that wish to record in mid-sized studios but can afford or they wanna save some money.

EG - our dentists(lot of them) make very good business here on foreigners. Not on rich one but on the middle class. They also offer accommodation and transport. They work for half of price(in contrast of Italy) but more then they could charge to native citizen.

CAN THIS BE COMPARED TO STUDIO ? ...just tiny bit :-)


2. More and more music is 'created' in post production. It is less and less of a live performance, so the need for real tracking rooms has diminished alarmingly.(yes! and that's why I don't plan to build much bigger room) Classical, folk and jazz still need rooms.

3. The prices for studio time in the UK and Germany is right down. You are competing with people who are practically giving it away! I kid you not!

I know! I got some non-native clients and they all where surprised with my quality/price ratio - ALL of them. They all suggested bigger place (from my current studio/12m2 CR / 12m2 studio_haha) and accommodation and they will more frequent visit us.
----
OK. you got the idea of my equipment and planed space. What would you consider to be "normal" price with engineer and accommodation in my case?
And what would be "magnet for clients" price?



4. Nearly all recording is not rock music, but all the other stuff, film, pipe bands, choirs, you name it and it is being recorded. But rock and pop at grass roots level just has no money(ooooo yes:-) i live with that fact from begining) , so they all do it at home.

_____________________________________________________

And now comes the real kicker -

I ran your entire thing past my wife and she asked me a very good question - which one of our customers would actually be able to book your room?

None of them.

Why? Well, the classical piano boys can't because you don't have the piano or the room for that. The jazz people can't, for pretty much the same reason.
You are right!!! OK. Purchase classical piano - no problem.

The rock people might, but then the studio is rather small and they would HAVE to be local, as they absolutely need all their toys (backline, guitars, drums etc.)

But residential studio all over the world manly record rock-pop band and
this would be problem for all of them - but they still record....

I can make huge list of backline/instruments "for a rent" for very good price and also buy only standard most wanted pieces. I think that this is standard way of doing business in most of studios out there.
WOULD THAT BE RIGHT SOLUTION in your opinion?
I forgot to mention - this place is 1 0minutes from city center with highway. So, everything is available.

And you can't get a small orchestra or choir or similar in there and these people can ONLY record locally.

Yes. I don't count on that anyway...

The practicalities of using your place are dreadful for the non-local. You can't hire-in stuff at short notice, as you can in London or NY, you can't fly there with all your gear, the room is too small, I could just go on and on . . .

My major concern from your suggestions is:
WHY YOU THING THAT ROOM IS TOO SMALL?!
Such room could sound o.k. after good treatment and great acoustic designer.
As you sad - most of project are done with overdubs - or maybe 2-3 musician playing together - commodity should be fine here.
It's not huge - It's not perfect. I know.

BUT - from acoustic design and room size point of view it will be THE BEST commercial studio in my country ! And with largest(!) live room(with acoustic design). There is none studio properly build form scratch here.
This would be - in top-3 studio that I appreciate (Tonski studio Šišmiš)
Attachment 257888


The days of groovy rock-gods flying private planes to remote islands to record in the sunshine for silly money are over. They go to well-equipped city centre studios that are lean, mean tracking machines!

So, what does all that lot add up to?

LOCAL BUSINESS

Drop the whole idea of building your dream studio and concentrate on building a lean, mean tracking machine. Get the local trade and don't waste one minute worrying about whether you can get the windswept and groovy from London, LA or Paris.

You live in a country where labour is cheap, so build a bigger room, forget the pool (if you want to swim, jump in the Adriatic and swim between the turds!).

ooo - This is wrong!
Everything that you have sad(about studio business) may be true but this one is not-sorry.
Pool is THE most important in this project!
I personally would never swing into pool because there is Adriatic near BUT tourist disagree with that - strongly! and houses with pools are much(!) much more wanted and have lot bigger prices!
This villa project should be 5 stars(!) vacation house.
It must have(and it's law) :
outside pool
inside jacuzzi
sauna
gym
large bathrooms in every room(with bathtubs)
bbq
parking
.....
This wasn't in my attachments
Attic with:jacuzzi / sauna / gym




THIS KIND OF VILLA ARE DESIRABLE(because they are rare) AND IN ADVANCE BOOKED FOR WHOLE SEASON!
Home ....Croatia villas
My family is in the tourism so I know all that at firsthand.




I have just built a 130 sq m workshop, with combined mastering room and upper floor for storage for £5,000. Yes, £5,000! (The price of two good Neumanns!) You live in a country where you can get timber from the local sawmill for pennies and labour for a few €uros an hour - use that situation to your advantage!

Spend NOTHING on flash equipment. The days of equipment are over. The next big thing in recording will be desks and DAWs all on touch-screens and costing NOTHING. One Alphalink, two massive touch-screens and some native software (Logic, PT, Reaper, whatever) and you are done!

but this is more like - every home-studio(DAW+screens and software).
What about - "wow" effect when you walk into studio with lots of equipment?
Eveybody can buy those touch-screens....
But I understand your point, I know what you are saying - I really do - from business point of view you are right - but I don't wanna work in such setup...
GS thing - veto :-)).


Spend your money on the things people want and need. That is a piano, Hammond and above all SPACE!

Again - I agree about piano/hammond but I'm not sure about Space as I explained earlier. BUT I'm intrigued by that.


Do it all cheaply and you will still be the biggest and the baddest studio in town! Add a cheap mobile using pretty much the same stuff, but a cheap analogue desk for live-outs all in a trailer and do live hi-def DVDs as well. Work with a local video company. DVDs are the real CDs of today!

Here - DVD are unknowns. I mean nobody here released DVD or very-very rare.Maybe 1 DVDs on 100 CDs


Or do the tourism thing, as I suggested. Much less hassle and more money.

That's right!

THANK YOU AGAIN VERY MUCH ON YOUR COMMENTS !! IT'S VERY HELPFUL!

Mario.

[psycho_monkey]

One thing to remember - "mid level" clients are unlikely to pay to go abroad to record. The sorts of bands who have the budget to go residential, especially abroad, will generally be expecting high level facilities. Very few bands without some sort of record deal do this, at least from the UK. If I had the budget to take a band away for a few weeks and record, I'd be looking for a GREAT spec'd studio, not just a mid-level one.

[The Byre]

OK, here's the answer -

Realistically speaking, you can either run a tourist villa OR a residential studio that is capable of attracting quality trade. The investment required for a studio of that calibre is far, far greater than most people realise. DAW €10,000, Steinway or Boesendorfer piano €30,000 (used), 100 sq m live room and CR and machine room €200,000 (for the building) Hammond €6,000, then comes all the wiring, acoustics, fittings, green room, it just goes on and on and on!

1. Your plans for a tourist villa are of course spot-on. If you are able to locate far further South, i.e. South of Zadar, that would be better, because most of your tourist trade will be German and they prefer going further South, simply because they like the cleaner water and they like to have a nice long drive. I know, I've done it! But if you can make the business work where you are, then go for it.

2. Build a reasonable mix room for your own purposes. Add a modest tracking room for overdubs, but keep things CHEAP!!! Use what you have, add PT native if that is what you want, but design everything around your OWN needs, simply because visiting engineers just will not happen.

There may be a market for mobile recording where you are and that, combined with a mix room could work as a joint venture with a local video company.

The danger is, that you are determined to mix the two and do neither properly. You are in love with the idea of running a residential studio and hope that somehow the tourism will even out the bumps. You seem to be deaf to anything I say and continue to believe that a cut down Neve and a 50 sq m live room (shoe-horned into an ordinary domestic house) will have them leaving their own cut down Neves and 50 sq m live rooms (shoe-horned into their own domestic houses) in Bremen and Baden-Baden.

The problem is that the tourist villa could be a real business, playing and recording music is a hobby. Please don't destroy your chance of having a viable business, by clogging it up with a studio that you will not be able to rent out to foreign acts anyway!

[mario.junicic]

Originally Posted by The Byre

OK, here's the answer -

Realistically speaking, you can either run a tourist villa OR a residential studio that is capable of attracting quality trade.(Why - either this or that?) The investment required for a studio of that calibre is far, far greater than most people realise. DAW €10,000, Steinway or Boesendorfer piano €30,000 (used), 100 sq m live room and CR and machine room €200,000 (for the building) Hammond €6,000, then comes all the wiring, acoustics, fittings, green room, it just goes on and on and on!

1. Your plans for a tourist villa are of course spot-on. If you are able to locate far further South, i.e. South of Zadar, that would be better, because most of your tourist trade will be German and they prefer going further South, simply because they like the cleaner water and they like to have a nice long drive. I know, I've done it! But if you can make the business work where you are, then go for it.

Well, THE most popular part of Croatia that earn most money out of tourism is north part of cost - not south. Because, most people which come here come with cars in one day ride - which is impossible for further south. None want to send their vacation in car on 35 C. You probably come in Croatia with plain so it wasn't important to you.
Besides, I live here(so i know) on island of Krk and everyone here(including my familiy) make their lives out of tourism. Better every year.

2. Build a reasonable mix room for your own purposes. Add a modest tracking room for overdubs, but keep things CHEAP!!! Use what you have, add PT native if that is what you want, but design everything around your OWN needs, simply because visiting engineers just will not happen.

That is my plan.

There may be a market for mobile recording where you are and that, combined with a mix room could work as a joint venture with a local video company.

Not here:-( I've done most of local mobile recording in last few years and it's maybe one tenth of all that I've doing. I can't change market needs :-(

The danger is, that you are determined to mix the two and do neither properly. You are in love with the idea of running a residential studio and hope that somehow the tourism will even out the bumps. You seem to be deaf to anything I say and continue to believe that a cut down Neve and a 50 sq m live room (shoe-horned into an ordinary domestic house) will have them leaving their own cut down Neves and 50 sq m live rooms (shoe-horned into their own domestic houses) in Bremen and Baden-Baden.

The problem is that the tourist villa could be a real business, playing and recording music is a hobby. (that's right) Please don't destroy your chance of having a viable business, by clogging it up with a studio that you will not be able to rent out to foreign acts anyway!

I really can't understand why you think that I'm doing something wrong with whole tourist villa business. If there was't "studio recording business" I would build villa for tourists all exactly the some. I really can see any damage to put studio in there and record out-of-season(if studio isn't doing better then villa alone)? House will be empty anyway so studio isn't doing any harm to "tourist villa" at all.
In your case : if your residential studio isn't booked for 10 days eg - would you rent accommodation for tourist if they are willing to pay good money (lets say you have accommodation)? Why keep it empty?
Vice - versa:
Here - you are probably right with bad prognosis with residential studio business. But that is not my main goal here at the first place. As I sad earlier I'm in studio business already - I own current studio more than 12 years now so why suggestion to give up?! ...I see that is between the lines...
I know exactly what to expect form this upgrade with my local projects and
even if studio is sort of hobby(I don't see bad thing here) - it's still earning some money.
----
I do agree with most of your opinions regarding residential part of whole story!
I hoping that it could work well with little luck and lots of hard work - and that is bit irrational. Even so, I can rely on clients in 2-3 hours(Croatia/Slovena/Italy) driving radius and still make it alright.

Thanks for all you suggestion and help.

Mario.

P.S.
Someday I will let you know - how it turns out.

[The Byre]

Well, the best of luck to you.

I spent most holidays there before the wars broke out and when it was still Yugoslavia. I drove from Germany with my family, so I was the typical tourist and a nice villa with pool would have been nice. Such things were difficult to find back then. Later, we went to Italy for the holidays.

One of the pleasures for a German tourist is to drive. They all have cars with air conditioning that are quiet and a pleasure to drive. All year, all they get to do is drive to work and drive to the shops, so once a year, they want to have a proper drive, so the distance really is not a problem. Where we are now, the very North coast is the most popular with Germans, as they get to the top and run out of Scotland! After a few days, they drive even more, exploring the West coast.

Normally, when I look at someone's business plans, it is always about the figures and for obvious reasons, we can't do that here - as Goethe said, the devil is oft-times hidden in the detail.

“Der Teufel steckt oft im Detail und verbirgt sich hinter schönen Worten. Wir werden von den Machthabern über den Löffel barbiert und viele Menschen merken es nicht einmal.” just for our German readers!

What I am trying to impress upon you, is that your main business, your focus and the target for your energy has to be that holiday villa. The studio has to work around this. That means not wasting money on expensive acoustic treatments and walls at funny angles and living rooms filled with acoustic baffles and mic stands.

I like the idea of the studio doing something to fill-in the Winter months slow-down in trade. That makes sense! Perhaps you could fit the place out, so that existing rooms get whole sections and fittings moved in from October to March. I am sure that your local trade would understand that the studio is a temporary fit and that the place is a holiday villa during the tourist season.

Cheers and the best of luck - this (done properly and in a lean manner - i.e. no wasting money trying to get foreign bands that will never come) looks good.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by mario.junicic

I really can't understand why you think that I'm doing something wrong with whole tourist villa business. If there was't "studio recording business" I would build villa for tourists all exactly the some. I really can see any damage to put studio in there and record out-of-season(if studio isn't doing better then villa alone)? House will be empty anyway so studio isn't doing any harm to "tourist villa" at all.
In your case : if your residential studio isn't booked for 10 days eg - would you rent accommodation for tourist if they are willing to pay good money (lets say you have accommodation)? Why keep it empty?
Vice - versa:
Here - you are probably right with bad prognosis with residential studio business. But that is not my main goal here at the first place. As I sad earlier I'm in studio business already - I own current studio more than 12 years now so why suggestion to give up?! ...I see that is between the lines...
I know exactly what to expect form this upgrade with my local projects and
even if studio is sort of hobby(I don't see bad thing here) - it's still earning some money.
----
I do agree with most of your opinions regarding residential part of whole story!
I hoping that it could work well with little luck and lots of hard work - and that is bit irrational. Even so, I can rely on clients in 2-3 hours(Croatia/Slovena/Italy) driving radius and still make it alright.

Thanks for all you suggestion and help.

Mario.

P.S.
Someday I will let you know - how it turns out.

you should try both.
between tourists and recording you could keep it busy enough to make it work as a biz.

some tourists might even like a day in the studio to see how it works and maybe record a demo song as a souvenir, in between their other touristy events.

[mario.junicic]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Well, the best of luck to you.

I spent most holidays there before the wars broke out and when it was still Yugoslavia. I drove from Germany with my family, so I was the typical tourist and a nice villa with pool would have been nice. Such things were difficult to find back then. Later, we went to Italy for the holidays.

One of the pleasures for a German tourist is to drive. They all have cars with air conditioning that are quiet and a pleasure to drive. All year, all they get to do is drive to work and drive to the shops, so once a year, they want to have a proper drive, so the distance really is not a problem. Where we are now, the very North coast is the most popular with Germans, as they get to the top and run out of Scotland! After a few days, they drive even more, exploring the West coast.

Normally, when I look at someone's business plans, it is always about the figures and for obvious reasons, we can't do that here - as Goethe said, the devil is oft-times hidden in the detail.

“Der Teufel steckt oft im Detail und verbirgt sich hinter schönen Worten. Wir werden von den Machthabern über den Löffel barbiert und viele Menschen merken es nicht einmal.” just for our German readers!

What I am trying to impress upon you, is that your main business, your focus and the target for your energy has to be that holiday villa. The studio has to work around this.(yes) That means not wasting money on expensive acoustic treatments and walls at funny angles and living rooms filled with acoustic baffles and mic stands.

I will try to avoid funny angles in studio room(also living room) and most of acoustic treatment will be easy movable(something like showed on pictures). The rest of treatment should be hidden and incorporated to avoid strange appearance.

I like the idea of the studio doing something to fill-in the Winter months slow-down in trade. That makes sense! Perhaps you could fit the place out, so that existing rooms get whole sections and fittings moved in from October to March. (machine room/control room will be music only and the rest will have double purpose) I am sure that your local trade would understand that the studio is a temporary fit and that the place is a holiday villa during the tourist season.

Cheers and the best of luck - this (done properly and in a lean manner - i.e. no wasting money trying to get foreign bands that will never come) looks good.

Thanks ones again for all your observation. It was very helpful.
Mario.

[RCM - Ronan]

I LOVE working is well equipped well maintained residential studios. If I had my way almost all of my projects would be done in residential studios in interesting places (I am working in one now in North italy),

But it is worth noting, a friend of mine has a residential studio outside of a major city in the US in a beautiful location. It has a huge live room, and iso booths bigger than lots of people's live rooms. He has a big high end analog console and a gear collection that would be the dream of most gear slutz. His room often rents for less than 300 Euros/day with accommodations (when it is actually booked)

[creativeoutlet]

Mario, wouild love to come over and see the place, but being based in Washington state in the northwest of the USA...well, just not in the cards. I do run a small business and a I like the dual income approach you are taking. It sounds like you have some background in both businesses and being able to combine them in one location may save money. I would focus on making ends meet with just the tourism and local projects. If that is possible, then growth from there whether it is from foreign projects, improved tourist interest, or even more local work is all extra. Based on your setup, can the studio and the living quarters be used independently, or will you have to turn away studio work if there is a family renting the villa and vice versa? Just some thoughts. Have fun.
-Eric

[mario.junicic]

Originally Posted by creativeoutlet

Mario, wouild love to come over and see the place, but being based in Washington state in the northwest of the USA...well, just not in the cards. I do run a small business and a I like the dual income approach you are taking.
Thanks!
It sounds like you have some background in both businesses[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"](Yes)[/COLOR] and being able to combine them in one location may save money. I would focus on making ends meet with just the tourism and local projects.(I will start from there and try to attract more foreign project in upcoming years)) If that is possible, then growth from there whether it is from foreign projects, improved tourist interest, or even more local work is all extra. Based on your setup, can the studio and the living quarters be used independently, or will you have to turn away studio work if there is a family renting the villa and vice versa? Just some thoughts. Have fun.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]It will one or another. It's impossible to make it all works at the same time.
BUT - good thing is that I always have less recording sessions during July-August-September and tourism is at peak. So - those two jobs are very compatible.
My final goal is :
30% tourism
20% local project on daily basis (without accommodation) - 50km radius
25% local project on week basis (with accommodation)_coming with cars - 200km radius
25% foregin projects
That way I rely on biggest market possible. And it's most safe.
Of course that number may vary - and it's impossible to have 100% booked but that ratio should remain.

I should start with 40% tourism / 30 % local project 50km / maybe 10% local -200km radius / 5-10% foregin projects

[/COLOR]

-Eric

Thanks for comment!

Mario.