School for production & engineering?

[dgm]

Hey there.

I was thinking of going to school to assist me in my journey to becoming an audio wizard.

I want to learn professional techniques for recording, producing, mixing, and possibly mastering music.

However, I'm having trouble finding schools that seem to legitimately offer what I seek. A lot of schools claim to teach audio engineering, but the professors don't seem to have any qualifications other than a degree from some other sham music school. And if they've ever actually produced any music, it sounds like turd to my ears. These aren't people I want to learn from.

Berklee School of Music in Boston, MA seemed worthwhile, so I'm applying there. Any other recommendations?

Any help is MUCH appreciated. :)

[BHickey]

I went to MTSU (Middle Tennessee State University) and think that they have a good program. Belmont in Nashville, TN also had a decent program.

It is true that you want professors with real world experience on a professional level, but you also want a school with a good internship program as that is a very valuable way to learn as well.

From what I have heard in the past, many of the "trade schools" are earning a poor reputation in the studio industry because the of wealth of underachieving, lazy, and incompetent graduates that they often put out. Because of this, if your application for an internship has their name attached, it may limit you.

You should call some of the studios that you may want to intern or work at some day and ask them if they have an opinion or preference as to where they like to hire interns from.

[dgm]

Originally Posted by BHickey

You should call some of the studios that you may want to intern or work at some day and ask them if they have an opinion or preference as to where they like to hire interns from.

Actually, that sounds like a pretty good idea even if I have no real interest in working in the studio, just to get their opinions on some schools or programs.

How would I go about getting the contact information of some top-quality studios?

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by dgm

Hey there.

I was thinking of going to school to assist me in my journey to becoming an audio wizard.

I want to learn professional techniques for recording, producing, mixing, and possibly mastering music.

However, I'm having trouble finding schools that seem to legitimately offer what I seek. A lot of schools claim to teach audio engineering, but the professors don't seem to have any qualifications other than a degree from some other sham music school. And if they've ever actually produced any music, it sounds like turd to my ears. These aren't people I want to learn from.

Berklee School of Music in Boston, MA seemed worthwhile, so I'm applying there. Any other recommendations?

Any help is MUCH appreciated. :)

look at local community colleges
faster better cheaper easier better classes

[JoRillo]

If your ready to be in a good amount of debt when you get out, Full Sail University.

As for "Experienced teachers":
1. My class last month, a teacher Produced the song "I got the power" (you know which one im talking about)
2. My lab instructor was the hands playing the synths and stuff for the same song.
3. My teacher before that was a front of house engineer for names like Snoop Dog, Wu Tang, and I believe he said he didn't mix for U2 or Pink Floyd but he did a few openers for them (he had AWSOME pics from both)
4. Teacher before that was a Digital Audio and Theory instructor (can't be to public famous for that but...) he wrote many books that have been published, and was a "Main guy" on many very complicated topic websites. Very smart man.

A have a few millionaire teachers from money they have made in the industry (none of them have just said it to the class, but I can tell, and i've heard [from reliable sources] that they were).

[therealbigd]

Teach yourself.

Music production is a mix of art and physics, it's pretty easy to learn alone. Buying logic and an interface will allow you to learn at your own pace.

As for lecturers, if they were good they'd be out doing it still. They're in a college because they can't get real work on a regular basis.

[BHickey]

Originally Posted by dgm

How would I go about getting the contact information of some top-quality studios?

Google is a wonderful thing. If you are looking into what studios to contact... again, google can help, or you can go through your album collection and see where they recorded.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by dgm

However, I'm having trouble finding schools that seem to legitimately offer what I seek. A lot of schools claim to teach audio engineering, but the professors don't seem to have any qualifications other than a degree from some other sham music school. And if they've ever actually produced any music, it sounds like turd to my ears. These aren't people I want to learn from.

That is a very wise attitude!

I got a call from some investment guru who wanted to sell me his newsletter and I looked him up on 'whois' and discovered that he was working from a two-up, two-down weather-boarded house somewhere in Pennsylvania. Similar to your way of thinking, I didn't want investment advice from a poor person!

Good luck, but I would go down the visit studios and get your own rig path and learn by doing. A great way to learn is to hire a suitable studio and record and produce a likely band. OK, you will lose some money, but it is a whole lot cheaper than going to one of these colleges and you should end up learning a whole lot more!

[MTStudios]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Good luck, but I would go down the visit studios and get your own rig path and learn by doing. A great way to learn is to hire a suitable studio and record and produce a likely band. OK, you will lose some money, but it is a whole lot cheaper than going to one of these colleges and you should end up learning a whole lot more!

+1

and if you're booking sessions in other studios to work with bands you bring in (ie playing producer) you'll wind up making friends with the studio owner, since you're probably providing him with paid days off That gives you an opportunity to ask to sit in/assist on mixing/recording sessions and learn from them. Plus an experienced expert to talk sound/music with.

Eventually you'll wind up with plenty of fellow engineer/producer friends, and if you're humble and respectful enough, you can ask to sit in/assist on their sessions and learn A LOT from experienced and relevant sources.

[dgm]

Great advice, guys. Thanks!

The more I research music schools, the more jaded I'm getting about the whole idea.

I think I'd much rather try and get close to people who are actually participating in the industry.

[The Byre]

Three things that most music technology grads cannot do -

Read a score.

Read a circuit diagram.

Do the DAW thing (editing etc.,) to Ninja level.

You are far, far, far better off, learning those three things separately and in a clearly targeted manner. That means

1. Studying musical theory. This could be just CDs and books.

2. Learning basic electronics - your local community college is your friend here.

3. Get a DAW (anything will do - Reaper etc.) and learn it inside out and outside in.

[Dave C]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

As for lecturers, if they were good they'd be out doing it still. They're in a college because they can't get real work on a regular basis.

Or they're sick of gigs and recording sessions with artists whose music they don't like, and want to be picky about the real work they do undertake - but don't want to worry about how to pay the bills and give a little back to the next generation...

The good ones are "out doing it still". Just maybe not as much as before...It's actually nice work if you can get it.

[Dave C]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Three things that most music technology grads cannot do -

Read a score.

Read a circuit diagram.

Do the DAW thing (editing etc.,) to Ninja level.

Have to disagree- although it really does depend on the students themselves, and to some extent on the teaching at the institution.

In my experience lots can read a score, some can read a circuit diagram (and a few can actually design a useful circuit), and many can edit audio quite well, although I admit perhaps not to 'ninja' level. That really does take a few years.

[JoRillo]

As for lecturers, if they were good they'd be out doing it still. They're in a college because they can't get real work on a regular basis.

I have alot of teachers who DO still go out and do gigs, and alot of them that don't WANT to.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by JoRillo

I have alot of teachers who DO still go out and do gigs, and alot of them that don't WANT to.

Of course they do. What else would they tell their young worshippers?

[TRJanuary]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Three things that most music technology grads cannot do -

Read a score.

Read a circuit diagram.

Do the DAW thing (editing etc.,) to Ninja level.

Awesome. Just to add one more:

#4 Simply know how to SELL STUDIO TIME.

Every recording student coming out of these schools will need to know this, since most won't likely be getting sweet salaried positions where customers are automatically provided to them. I don't believe that is in anyone's curriculum, and is one reason why, here in 2011, I believe the plethora of recording schools is a miserable joke.

Although I hate sales, and don't think of myself as a salesman, today's student will need to learn how to become a "studio time salesman" or there is no career waiting for them.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by TRJanuary

today's student will need to learn how to become a "studio time salesman" or there is no career waiting for them.

Thank you for adding that - it is so important!

Yes, get those words tattooed onto the inside of the eyelids of every aspiring fader-pusher! If you can't get customers through the door, then there's not much point in your being there!!!

[spelunker]

Berklee is a great school (for music, not sure about their reputation for production)but VERY expensive. You really need to factor that in (unless you are wealthy enough not to take out loans in which case you should probably just be interning somewhere anyway. Oh, and loan me $20?) Seriously, consider the price and if paying that extra price has any benefits, as when you do finally graduate your chances of immediately having a job in the business are pretty slim. It was a small job market 10-13 years ago when I attended MTSU and has only shrunk since then.

I attended MTSU for a few years before I decided I'd rather keep music production on the side. What made me decide that was watching a few classes graduate and only a handful of people from each landing a "real" job. One using their degree, that is. Of my close friends who graduated from there, only 1 currently works in a studio as a pro. A few others do live sound or audio for TV, and 1 works for a rather famous manufacturer of audio equipment. The majority work in non-music occupations while pursuing music on the side. A few even went to law school. SHUDDER. If these kinds of job outcomes do or don't appeal to you, then there's something else to consider.

Because MTSU is a state school and a member of something called the Academic Common Market, I was able to get in-state tuition as my home state had no school with a recording degree. For this reason, my 2.5 years at MTSU did not bankrupt me. In addition, all of the first and second year liberal arts, math and science classes transferred to the university I eventually did graduate from (with two equally worthless degrees, but I digress), so the time there wasn't a complete waste.

So, please, please, please consider the cost!!! Student loans are indentured servitude, trust me on this. And school is getting so expensive, there is a possiblity you'll be paying them off for a very long time. If you're fine with the loans, then look into the academic common market and see what state schools have the program you're interested in, instead of just choosing somewhere because of name recognition.

Also, consider a four year college over the more "trade oriented" programs, b/c when you graduate, it will be with a bachelor's degree with some sort of liberal arts, science and math underpinning. That kind of thing is far more attractive to employers outside of the biz (and many inside the biz. For example, if you go towards the "working for a manufacturer" route, many of their positions may require a four year degree.) I know it sucks, but chances are you will need to land a job or two like that on your way to world domination. Likewise, a degree such as this will allow you to enter graduate school, should you decide to do that at some point in the future.

PS - I don't regret leaving MTSU, as while I don't do music all day, I do make enough money to buy gear and I have enough time to work on music in the evenings and weekends. I'm not entirely certain I'd have either if I'd remained at MTSU. On the one hand, there's a slim chance I'd be Butch Vig by now. On the other hand, there's a bigger chance I'd be serving coffee to Vandy students somewhere on Broadway. Having said that, MTSU has fantastic facilities, good teachers, is close to Nashville (for internships, etc.), and the town of Murfreesboro itself has a good music scene and is full of nice, interesting people.

Brain fart : Another thing to consider when looking at tuition, etc is cost of lving. Boston is very expensive. If you're ADD like me, it will be hard to work AND focus on school, meaning you may end up living on student loans for part of the time. Factor that in.