Studio time : what do you not charge ?

[Mgr]

What is you way of dealing with the little tasks that can take some time, for example burning DVD's with the files of the client on it or making basic bounces for the client to be able to listen to the recordings he did in your studio ?

I mean all of this can take some time, even hours...

I recently had a customer telling me that he had NEVER paid for that kind of time.

What do you think ?

[brrecording]

Charge by the hour...from the time work starts until it ends, everything you've described comes under work for me so I charge for it. If you charge by the day maybe stop recording an hour early to ensure time for back up and bounces. I find if the artists want the bounces before a mix is completed there's never a problem with this.

[rcb4t2]

I just hired a painter but I didn't pay him for the time it took him to stir the paint, or wash the brushes....... and I'm supposed to pay for the time he spent putting the tape up? F*** that! Greedy painters.

I like imagining my job in *any* other industry when considering these things.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by Mgr

What is you way of dealing with the little tasks that can take some time, for example burning DVD's with the files of the client on it or making basic bounces for the client to be able to listen to the recordings he did in your studio ?

I mean all of this can take some time, even hours...

I recently had a customer telling me that he had NEVER paid for that kind of time.

What do you think ?

i would charge for everything
all the time
all the materials
all the hassle
everything

[Dominion28]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

i would charge for everything
all the time
all the materials
all the hassle
everything

agreed. I've never had a client complain about paying for the time it takes to say, bounce out a rough mix and burn a cd. I dont charge for disposable media (cds, covers, etc) but I don't do a cd per band member.

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by brrecording

Charge by the hour...from the time work starts until it ends, everything you've described comes under work for me so I charge for it. If you charge by the day maybe stop recording an hour early to ensure time for back up and bounces. I find if the artists want the bounces before a mix is completed there's never a problem with this.

Ok, thanks !

Originally Posted by rcb4t2

I just hired a painter but I didn't pay him for the time it took him to stir the paint, or wash the brushes....... and I'm supposed to pay for the time he spent putting the tape up? F*** that! Greedy painters.

I like imagining my job in *any* other industry when considering these things.

Good idea, i'll try to think about that example next time (hopefully not) someone tries to play it cheap...

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

i would charge for everything
all the time
all the materials
all the hassle
everything

That's what i usually do, with some exeptions with good clients.

Originally Posted by Dominion28

agreed. I've never had a client complain about paying for the time it takes to say, bounce out a rough mix and burn a cd. I dont charge for disposable media (cds, covers, etc) but I don't do a cd per band member.

Thanks.

What i'll do is also have a studio contract that i'll make any client read and sign before we do anything, with those kind of points mentionned...

You should have seen my face when that client was telling me that he NEVER HAD PAID FOR THAT KIND OF TIME... was like

Anyway thanks to you all !

[Riddler]

EVERYTHING is chargeable if you want it to be, even cups of coffee. It depends how stingy you are and who your clients are. Studios that do lots of VO/post work are far more likely to charge for "extras" (photocopying, storage media etc.).

Take the example of CD copies; in the commercial world most companies don't bat an eyelid at seeing an extras charge for media on their invoice but an unsigned band might think it a bit unfair to see an extra £30 for CD copies.

Tim.

[Musiclab]

while I charge by the hour for archiving and backups there are certain times I don't simply because I don't have to be there keeping an eye on it. For instance when I burn disks from my masterlink. But that's the exception. I recently did an archival project where we transferred 8 albums of children's music from DA 88 to hard disk. It took 2 sessions one to transfer the data and another burn dvd's of all of the albums. we burn 2 copies of each, it took a a while to do, there's no way I could not charge for it.

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by Riddler

EVERYTHING is chargeable if you want it to be, even cups of coffee. It depends how stingy you are and who your clients are. Studios that do lots of VO/post work are far more likely to charge for "extras" (photocopying, storage media etc.).

Take the example of CD copies; in the commercial world most companies don't bat an eyelid at seeing an extras charge for media on their invoice but an unsigned band might think it a bit unfair to see an extra £30 for CD copies.

Tim.

True ! I'd prefer not to charge for everything, for example drinks, because i'd like to make people feel good... But i guess i'd better start changing some rules from now on !

Originally Posted by Musiclab

while I charge by the hour for archiving and backups there are certain times I don't simply because I don't have to be there keeping an eye on it. For instance when I burn disks from my masterlink. But that' the exception. I recently did an archival project where we transferred 8 albums of children's music from DA 88 to hard disk. It took 2 sessions one to transfer the data and another burn dvd's of all of the albums. we burn 2 copies of each, it took a a while to do, there's no way I could not charge for it.

Sometimes I would do exactely the same !

[deft_bonz]

You should charge everything. You need to know how much you spend money and time, and this should come back in one way or another.

The question is how do you do that? How do you tell the customer?

E.g. you know your customers drink in average 6 bottles of water and 20 bottles of beer. So just raise the fee per hour and give the beer for free, if you want the good feeling.

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

You should charge everything. You need to know how much you spend money and time, and this should come back in one way or another.

The question is how do you do that? How do you tell the customer?

E.g. you know your customers drink in average 6 bottles of water and 20 bottles of beer. So just raise the fee per hour and give the beer for free, if you want the good feeling.

Yes ! Actually it's kind of funny because some clients make you just realize that you're doing it right That client was actually claiming that he never had to pay for that . But actually the more i talk with studio owners or people working in the sound i realize that he was just inexperienced or bulls*iting me...

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Mgr

Yes ! Actually it's kind of funny because some clients make you just realize that you're doing it right That client was actually claiming that he never had to pay for that . But actually the more i talk with studio owners or people working in the sound i realize that he was just inexperienced or bulls*iting me...

there is a perception since they no longer buy tape that archiving and backing up is supposed to be free, the same with storing data. This needs to be addressed by studios and engineers. this should NEVER be free. And storing
projects for a client or keeping them on your drive after the project is completed is in my opinion, madness.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

there is a perception since they no longer buy tape that archiving and backing up is supposed to be free, the same with storing data. This needs to be addressed by studios and engineers. this should NEVER be free. And storing
projects for a client or keeping them on your drive after the project is completed is in my opinion, madness.

Although I do it for myself, I don't tell them. I let them do that for themselves.

[jonathan jetter]

i charge for my day. my time is my time.

this includes lunch breaks, file backups, a few minutes spent pacing in the hallway if i need to get out of the control room, etc etc.

"largest percentage of time spent working" does not necessarily translate to "most productive use of the session."

if i am calm and focused and well-fed, there's a good chance i'll get more done in an hour of mixing and it'll be more right than if we didn't take breaks and move at a relaxed pace.

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

Although I do it for myself, I don't tell them. I let them do that for themselves.

i used to do backups, but i've changed to the no backup politic too. I explain that they should bring a HDD in order to backup the project .

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by jonathan jetter

i charge for my day. my time is my time.

this includes lunch breaks, file backups, a few minutes spent pacing in the hallway if i need to get out of the control room, etc etc.

"largest percentage of time spent working" does not necessarily translate to "most productive use of the session."

if i am calm and focused and well-fed, there's a good chance i'll get more done in an hour of mixing and it'll be more right than if we didn't take breaks and move at a relaxed pace.

make sense. thx

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

You should charge everything. You need to know how much you spend money and time, and this should come back in one way or another.

The question is how do you do that? How do you tell the customer?

E.g. you know your customers drink in average 6 bottles of water and 20 bottles of beer. So just raise the fee per hour and give the beer for free, if you want the good feeling.

NO real studio provides free beer!

Have you seen how much bands can drink?! I'd expect bands to provide their own beer and some for me too at the end of the session!

[Joao B.]

I actually have a fridge stocked with several drinks, including beer.

The thing is that I only keep some beers in the fridge, so if they drink them all they only get cold beer in the next session.

Heavy drinking bands usually bring their own because they feel bad about cleaning my fridge.

It's a thin balance!

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

NO real studio provides free beer!

Have you seen how much bands can drink?! I'd expect bands to provide their own beer and some for me too at the end of the session!

I offer free beer, coffee and water. But I wouldn't count my studio as public studio for everyone. My clients often bring beer the next time. It's a vice versa loyalty, but I'd like to start and treat my clients well, then usually they treat me well

PS: Respect needs to be earned.... with A LOT of beer

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Joao B.

I actually have a fridge stocked with several drinks, including beer.

The thing is that I only keep some beers in the fridge, so if they drink them all they only get cold beer in the next session.

Heavy drinking bands usually bring their own because they feel bad about cleaning my fridge.

It's a thin balance!

Lol you're the exception then! If I provided beer, it would be included in the rate...and a limited amount!

[Joao B.]

When I defined a studio day's rate I accounted for that kind of stuff.

If the band doesn't drink I make more money

If they drink a lot I also make more money because they take longer to do something useable.

[Joao B.]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

I offer free beer, coffee and water. But I wouldn't count my studio as public studio for everyone. My clients often bring beer the next time. It's a vice versa loyalty, but I'd like to start and treat my clients well, then usually they treat me well

PS: Respect needs to be earned.... with A LOT of beer

It's more or less the same thing here and I found it makes the band really comfortable on the first sessions because they feel right at home.

[deft_bonz]

As the others wrote, it shouldn't be endless stream of bear from the tab for free.

Although it's a nice vision... should be a studio standard

[Sidechainer]

Drinks and food is always in the fridge. It doesnt have to be a huge amount but enough to make the band still feel comfortable when asking for something.^^

[ReZoUnD]

ive seen in studios with open Bars, any thing u want they have it, even smoke rooms, showers, whatever u need as a rock star lol but as soon as u enter the door the time starts as soon as your block runs out studio shuts down lol lights dim very low e it dosent matter if u talk to the engineer for an hr, time is running, thats why if some one needs to chat with u its over lunch at a restaurant or something

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by ReZoUnD

ive seen in studios with open Bars, any thing u want they have it, even smoke rooms, showers, whatever u need as a rock star lol but as soon as u enter the door the time starts as soon as your block runs out studio shuts down lol lights dim very low e it dosent matter if u talk to the engineer for an hr, time is running, thats why if some one needs to chat with u its over lunch at a restaurant or something

Having showers and a smoking room (which over here at least, you can't legally do anymore) isn't really the same thing as an open bar is it?! Most studios provide kitchen facilities and electricity as well...

Of course most studios will provide anything the client requests. But even if it appears "open", someone is paying for it down the line. The large facilities that provide fruit, expensive coffee machines etc will also have more expensive room rates! Nothing comes for free.

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Nothing comes for free.

and that pretty sums it all !

thank you all for your input.

[Musiclab]

What I do give for free is media, cd's and dvd's, since they're paying for my time to burn them. I've always found it insulting when studios ridiculously mark up media, I remember working at a place that charged 5 bucks for a floppy, and 10 for a cassette! Tape was double what it actually cost if you bought it from a store. In my own place I've never charged for media except for 2"tape.
And then I charge the client what I paid for it, no mark up, I try to encourage clients to use tape, so I'll make it as easy as I can.

[deft_bonz]

Mark up is a no go for materials such as tapes, CDs, etc. Worse is when you ask a mark up for coffee, water, beer, etc. I wouldn't even dare to ask for any money for coffee etc.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

Mark up is a no go for materials such as tapes, CDs, etc. Worse is when you ask a mark up for coffee, water, beer, etc. I wouldn't even dare to ask for any money for coffee etc.

I would never charge for coffee or soft drinks, and I would never supply liquor.