L.A. Times studio articles

[toneguru]

Mr. Sartiano, do you have a publisher? Brilliant!

[Spiritworks]

Originally Posted by toneguru

Mr. Sartiano, do you have a publisher? Brilliant!

Yes, please write a book.
Another angle to consider with respect to the decline in quality of the recording and music businesses, and one which I can't recall ever seeing discussed here on Gearslutz: Gear Pimps. Large chains of mega-stores and online hawkers of low cost, lower quality "professional" musical gear and recording equipment which is sold along with the implied promise that "you can be a star, and you can do it all yourself".
Let's face it, most people don't want the pleasure of the art or the satisfaction one can get from attaining technical prowess - they want the money and fame, and the easiest, cheapest shortcuts to get there. Quality be damned.
There is a parallel to this in the construction industry, of which I've been involved for thirty years. When the "home depot" - type large chains of mega-stores came into existance, everyone became a do-it-yourselfer and most of the building trades have seen declines ever since. These hawkers of low cost, lower quality "professional" building materials promise everyone that they can build themselves their own Taj Majal. Now that's OK if it's your own house you're working on, but a lot of people go into these stores, buy themselves a set of tools and call themselves "contractors", then begin undercutting prices (and quality) . Sound familiar?
At least the building trades/construction industry is "supposed to be" regulated with licensing/insurance/etc. People's lives are at stake.
I can't foresee any type of useful ( for professionals ) regulation ever occuring in the recording industry.

[toneguru]

Originally Posted by Spiritworks

Yes, please write a book.
Another angle to consider with respect to the decline in quality of the recording and music businesses, and one which I can't recall ever seeing discussed here on Gearslutz: Gear Pimps. Large chains of mega-stores and online hawkers of low cost, lower quality "professional" musical gear and recording equipment which is sold along with the implied promise that "you can be a star, and you can do it all yourself".
Let's face it, most people don't want the pleasure of the art or the satisfaction one can get from attaining technical prowess - they want the money and fame, and the easiest, cheapest shortcuts to get there. Quality be damned.
There is a parallel to this in the construction industry, of which I've been involved for thirty years. When the "home depot" - type large chains of mega-stores came into existance, everyone became a do-it-yourselfer and most of the building trades have seen declines ever since. These hawkers of low cost, lower quality "professional" building materials promise everyone that they can build themselves their own Taj Majal. Now that's OK if it's your own house you're working on, but a lot of people go into these stores, buy themselves a set of tools and call themselves "contractors", then begin undercutting prices (and quality) . Sound familiar?
At least the building trades/construction industry is "supposed to be" regulated with licensing/insurance/etc. People's lives are at stake.
I can't foresee any type of useful ( for professionals ) regulation ever occuring in the recording industry.

I think your perspective may be skewing your observation.

Low cost cheap recording equipment is giving millions of people young and old the opportunity to learn, create and enjoy the process of recording. This is a good thing. Plus, who knows what brilliance may come from it.

It may indeed hurt the "professional" recording industry but that is our concern not theirs. It may help the industry too. The talented upstarts and the rich ones too, well some of them decide to take it to the next level and employ a studio or mastering engineer. Not often but it does happen.

I feel your pain and I hear where you are coming from but I dare say that if recording were a domain only left to those that could afford pro gear the industry would still be in a funk. The day that teenagers fell out of the habit of buying music is the day that the industry got rocked.

[Spiritworks]

Originally Posted by toneguru

I think your perspective may be skewing your observation.

Low cost cheap recording equipment is giving millions of people young and old the opportunity to learn, create and enjoy the process of recording. This is a good thing. Plus, who knows what brilliance may come from it.

It may indeed hurt the "professional" recording industry but that is our concern not theirs. It may help the industry too. The talented upstarts and the rich ones too, well some of them decide to take it to the next level and employ a studio or mastering engineer. Not often but it does happen.

I feel your pain and I hear where you are coming from but I dare say that if recording were a domain only left to those that could afford pro gear the industry would still be in a funk. The day that teenagers fell out of the habit of buying music is the day that the industry got rocked.

I agree with you also. There are many positives in this scenario and I certainly wouldn't want to deny anyone the opportunity to have inexpensive tools, etc. I just think that it's one more small piece of the puzzle that can make for an interesting discussion. There are so many more reasons besides piracy as to why the industry is in the situation it now finds itself.

[YULOGY]

What I want to know, and have been asking for a while is, what's the end game??
I mean we all know that our services are widely valued at next to nothing.... The cafe near our studio makes far more money per day than our studio, largely from us and our clients.
The only 2 avenues that still seems to be making money off recording are retailers (online or physical stores) and universities charging huge amounts for useless degrees.

I want to know, when is it going to come to a head?? At what point will it simply be too unrealistic for professional studios to exist, and the industry is reduced to purely self run home based self serving operations?? Realistically not too far from todays situation.

I feel like it has to turn at some point. If all the pro's ceased work today, and all that was left were amateurs, where would the artists, labels, and corporations be able to turn?? No matter how much conditions change in the future, nothing is going to stop an artist wanting their music to sound the best possible!! Do alot of them compromise now because of a desire to save money, sure.... but they usually learn come 2nd time around!
I almost feel like we need to unionise, restore a reasonable value to our services. I mean, I run a small production studio but if I want to track drums or a whole band I can go hire an amazing studio for under $300 a day. However if I could not, if all those amazing studios went out of business, all of a sudden I'm sure I'd be able to find another $700 somewhere if only I could find a studio to spend it on....

We need to restore some exclusivity back into professional recording. I was tossing up the idea the other day of our industry having something similar to a bar exam. Your studio could become a registered "Pro Grade" studio and along with that registration would come certain standardized pricing....
It's not going to remove the competition from home job studio's, but it would create something that you can't just go out and buy! There are still plenty of people not satisfied with home recordings and I think you'd find if they couldn't get a big studio on the cheap as is possible now, they'd be able to come up with the money.

[toneguru]

You make some salient points.

But...

Unionizing, regulation, registered certified, standardized rates. It all seems unfeasible and it would all come with a myriad of unintended consequences.

100 years ago, the horse & buggy industry probably posed some similar solutions to their dilemma. None of which would have helped. In reality they would have been better off understanding that there comes a time to depart even if there is no certain place to go. I know many former studio owners that can relate to that.

Its possible that today is the wrong time to bail on the industry. Maybe its at its nadir and things may improve as far as record budgets and revenue streams. Maybe the cycle has bottomed.

If record budgets were what they were back in 1999 my tax bracket would be a few notches higher but today I am not much more than an unemployed musician. And you know who I blame... nobody but myself. I need to up my game. I may even have to get a job that is not music related. I have not walked that path since 1994. Ouch!

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by YULOGY

If all the pro's ceased work today, and all that was left were amateurs, where would the artists, labels, and corporations be able to turn??We need to restore some exclusivity back into professional recording.

Ummm... American Idol has filled the need for vapid talent. Amateurs are "in". You Tube provides as much entertainment as some can handle. And all of that is FREE!

As for exclusive, that horse has already left the barn. Exclusivity was ended when low cost recording gear became available. It will not return. Consider a career change if that doesn't swallow so well.

I know studio owners that have adapted by doing all sorts of stuff. One guy does recording classes in his studio, teaching the kids how to avoid needing his services. Not sure how well that will work out in the long term...

[YULOGY]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Ummm... American Idol has filled the need for vapid talent. Amateurs are "in". You Tube provides as much entertainment as some can handle. And all of that is FREE!

As for exclusive, that horse has already left the barn. Exclusivity was ended when low cost recording gear became available. It will not return. Consider a career change if that doesn't swallow so well.

I know studio owners that have adapted by doing all sorts of stuff. One guy does recording classes in his studio, teaching the kids how to avoid needing his services. Not sure how well that will work out in the long term...

I was reffering more to recording amateurs rather than performing.
While I get the comparison to the horse and cart, ours is not an industry that is being replaced.... People haven't stopped wanting, listening to, or making music, nor have people stopped needing it recorded.
Instead, it is as though our industry is not fully understood by the general populous and greatly undervalued while we're lumped into the same category as any kid with a laptop and program.
It just feels like, at some point the penny has to drop!
Our industry is actually needed, in virtually every aspect of entertainment and media! What happens when that "go to" reliable experienced guy down the road who you can get for a bargain because even he's gotta pay the bills decides to pack it in?? Along with all the other "go to" experienced guys?? What then? Is everyone everywhere just going to settle for recording on SM7b's through Gap73's in bedrooms with a couple of panels of acoustisorb and an imac??
Quite honestly I believe not! There is a romance in this industry that goes beyond the financial and the technical.... And aside from that, when all the pro's retire and the new breed just can't deliver the goods no matter how much of an awesome deal your getting, I get the feeling people will suddenly become easier to part with their money.
Supply and demand.... at the moment, there is universally faaaaaarrr too much supply!!! But when the quality starts to wane, the supply quickly shrinks and the demand will skyrocket!
At least this is my hope....
I have no intention of changing my career, I love what I do! I work 3 extra jobs to help finance what I love and do.... But it's worth it
At the moment for example, I am part of a production team writing and producing songs for 2 charity organisations! We are all donating our time and services, but these songs will be used in national marketing campaigns, and we get to work with some "celebrities" who are trading on the charity cred.
Plus I get to have a warm tingly humanitarian feeling inside :P

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by YULOGY

If all the pro's ceased work today, and all that was left were amateurs

Define amateur. I am not trying to be "smart" or anything -- I think you can really explore two different concepts here. Is it "amateur" in the strict sense of "professional" being a career-oriented professional vs. "amateur" being someone with outside means of support? Or are you using "amateur" as a quality judgment?

Some "amateurs" I have met are very capable and well equipped to create definitive work; their circumstances just give them a different set of choices than the rest of us. There are trust-fund heirs in L.A. who can wake up and do music every day, period. And not all of them are playboys with private drivers or self-centered "rich kids;" I have met more than one whose parents support them just enough so that they can take a "crack" at living the dreams they couldn't live themselves, without having to "grind" (literally) out an existence at the local Starbucks.

Some of the younger ones are the kids who say "yes, sir/no sir" and make food runs at the "big" studios here in Burbank and North Hollywood. And in 5 years they will start studios of their own. Forget "minimum wage" -- they are the ones who can take a job like this at NO wage for six months just so they can get coffee for [famous mixer] and steal his/her tricks.

This goes for people who made their way in business, as well. There are those take a midlife sabbatical or cut WAY back on work to pursue music on a full time basis, with professional goals as writer/producer/performers but also with the means to run a studio "in the red" for years waiting for a payoff in the entertainment industry -- the song placement that puts them "on the map," for instance.

This answers your question of where the corporations would turn. These folks will outlast any "professional" solely making living at this. We can't compete with "free" or "my main motivation is to get exposure and create on a high profile." And, trust me: some of these folks are terrifically talented; self-made entrepreneur types (especially) tend to be "good" at more than one thing, and on the other hand, a lot of "rich kids" grew up getting music (or karate, or whatever) lessons every day after school, because their parents had the means to provide the "best" for their children.

And what would seem to the rest of us like a Faustian bargain, i.e.: "we'll give you the fame and take the money," this would be a PERFECTLY fine deal for someone in this situation. "Let's sign you for two albums and put you on the road opening for [mature artist with crossover appeal] -- you'll never make a dime, but you'll get the ride of your life. Is that OK?"

Or how about this one: Would you do [insert signed artist here]'s record for 3 months for free? What about if you didn't have to worry about money? What if you had a certain degree of wealth in your family, but the deal was that if you chipped in on the promotional budget but got a piece of the back end (i.e.: became an "investor") then you got to be a part of the production team? Plenty of films are budgeted this way.

The inside scoop on a VERY high profile producer (biggest work in late 80's/early 90's) here in L.A. was that he had the means to basically go to Sunset Strip, tell any band he liked that he wanted to record them at his "great" studio (the one his folks bought for him), and...bingo, production deal after production deal until someone "broke." And this guy eventually made some seminal records. Since every kid has a laptop now, this model isn't quite as valid, but it gives you an idea of where I am going with this.

Will this continually dilute our value? I think so. I would not be surprised if we don't eventually hear of even a "talented" artist here or there going 50/50 with a label and basically "buying" a record deal with borrowed or family money. Engineer/producers who labor behind the scenes always focus on the artists and wannabes they judge to be "less talented," but everyone has to compete on that same playing field, and when the business shrinks to the point at which five or six figure sums represent "bottom lines" for promotion or for revenue, etc., even for some charting artists, then of course people will "play in the sandbox" at a recreational level. It's more fun than buying a yacht or playing the stock market...

And, like I said, you are making a mistake if you think they ALL are less than talented.

The downer is that competing in showbiz, for the insider, starts to feel as if we're competing in polo or dressage -- sure, you have to be an athlete to win, but what are the other prequalifiers?

[StewartFang]

Originally Posted by GearHunter

When I first started engineering in 1983 I made $25 to $30 per hour in 1980 dollars -- as a rookie. The studio made $90 to $100 per hour. Good veteran engineers made upwards of $40 an hour. So for a 10-hour day, the client paid $1,000 plus tape. I don't know what that translates to in today's money but I'd guess it's equivalent to $4 grand. * Just went to an on-line calculator: $1000 in 1983 dollars translates to $2300. today.Conversely, the $500 per-day WE ASK FOR TODAY to do a project would have been $220 in 1983

Here it is 2011 and a "studio" has a hard time getting $250 to $500 per day, including an engineer. I do weekender sessions for $900 total for both days, which includes studio time, myself and the assistant engineer. I end up keeping maybe $300 tops after the two days (which typically end up being long days - 11 hours plus).

I recently offered to mix an album for an artist, with me teamed-up with another really good engineer. Keep in mind this client approached us because he likes our work. Between the two of us this guy could not have a better set of ears to mix his CD. The price we put forth? $500 per song, all-included. There were 10 songs. He looked at us like we had two heads (which actually we did). He chose a bargain-basement guy (who was possibly a crack-head) who charged him $200/song. The CD came out sounding like shit.

I'm a veteran and have forgotten more about recording than 75% of the newbies out there, yet I have to compete with them. So basically I don't. That's why I only do a couple projects a year. If you can pay essentially $500 a day for me and the studio, you will get a fantastic recording. Any less than that, never mind.

Didn't plan a rant, but it ended up ranting.

I hear this very well...I'm about 10 years behind you and my audio journey hasn;t been a straight line recording the whole time..but yes on the one hand it kills me when someone says..."my buddy knows a guy who will.."

On the other hand...I'm with you...I just say "this is my rate"...I'm negotiable if the project is long enough...but not really because my rate is still pretty low...if someone wants to hire more of a hack than me, so be it...I'm not going to enable that crap by working for next to nothing.

[Liquid360]

We need to restore some exclusivity back into professional recording.

Sure, but if a 19 year old kid with a computer can sound like 90% of what you do, (at least in their minds), then what's their incentive? I'm not saying that a kid with some plug-ins sounds better than real hardware with a seasoned engineer, much the contrary, but in this economy how else can the ARTISTS THEMSELVES even release anything?

If anything has led to the demise of big studios, it's the Labels themselves, not the artists. All a Label wants now is a finished product, and for many, it's simply cheaper to build your own home studio rather than pay $XXX an hour for someone else to do it for you.

Prehaps every band is their own Label now, the rest is all about getting marketing and distribution deals.

[toneguru]

As far as what is hurting the pro recording studios, I will state the obvious... Its a little bit of everything.

The digital medium makes it too easy for teens to be in the habit of not paying for music like they did thirty years ago

Teens not interested so much either (more interested in social networking and video games etc)

Budgets just a fraction of what they use to be (see the two above)

Too few pro sessions to warrant the proliferation of quality studios

Too many self professed "engineers"

Too few quality jobs to warrant all of the quality engineers

The advent of the home studio pro or otherwise

Clear Channel monopolizing American airwaves

So pick your poison.

Still, I have friends that are busy and making bank regardless of the tide. It can be done. They are cool under pressure, they have ears and people love working with them.

No doubt its much tougher now than back in the hey day but one thing for sure... the future is going to be amazing.

[dylanwissing]

Originally Posted by toneguru

No doubt its much tougher now than back in the hey day but one thing for sure... the future is going to be amazing.

Or at least very different from the old paradigm! Could be amazing, could be nightmarish, but one way or another it will be interesting. I'm guessing we'll all be learning new skills that we can't even imagine right now...

Hopefully they'll all be music and audio-related, in one tangential form or another! Or at least deeply satisfying.

[wellyouneednt]

Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano

And what WOULD a young Stravinsky do? What's stopping anyone from composing "art music?"

I suppose I would say that some people do work of outstanding merit, and deserve to be treated as...and paid as...professionals. Obviously Stravinsky takes the term 'outstanding merit' to ridiculous extremes, but you see my point. Would he have plugged away in anonymity while working as a teacher or taxi driver? Perhaps. Would we as a civilization have lost something if deprived of his genius? Most definitely!

More in line with Gearslutz would be my Tom Dowd reference. Mr. Dowd (from what I've heard and read) was a very talented and intelligent man of substance. A purist whose passion was advancing the the art of recording. Would he have been prepared to 'apprentice' for many years for next to nothing...and then invest his own money in a business that would likely never be 'in the black'...all the while working 50 hours a week to live below the poverty line? I would highly doubt it.

If our field is seen as the domain of wannabes/hackers/Guitar-Hero types we'll be compensated accordingly (the horse has left the barn on this one). How many references in this thread alone to the dilemma of price matching with the 'hobbyist down the street'. Not many healthy industries are built on that premise.

We need to foster the attitude that people of exceptional ability deserve respect and financial recognition...the need to differentiate between the enthusiastic amateur and the careerist who has spent thousands of hours refining their skills. Our market is a tiny market...but one that requires this essential pool of talent.

If the mark of a great society is its cultural heritage, we should value those responsible for its creation.

I wish there were easy answers...or any answers for that matter.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by wellyouneednt

I suppose I would say that some people do work of outstanding merit, and deserve to be treated as...and paid as...professionals. Obviously Stravinsky takes the term 'outstanding merit' to ridiculous extremes, but you see my point. Would he have plugged away in anonymity while working as a teacher or taxi driver? Perhaps. Would we as a civilization have lost something if deprived of his genius? Most definitely!

More in line with Gearslutz would be my Tom Dowd reference. Mr. Dowd (from what I've heard and read) was a very talented and intelligent man of substance. A purist whose passion was advancing the the art of recording. Would he have been prepared to 'apprentice' for many years for next to nothing...and then invest his own money in a business that would likely never be 'in the black'...all the while working 50 hours a week to live below the poverty line? I would highly doubt it.

If our field is seen as the domain of wannabes/hackers/Guitar-Hero types we'll be compensated accordingly (the horse has left the barn on this one). How many references in this thread alone to the dilemma of price matching with the 'hobbyist down the street'. Not many healthy industries are built on that premise.

We need to foster the attitude that people of exceptional ability deserve respect and financial recognition...the need to differentiate between the enthusiastic amateur and the careerist who has spent thousands of hours refining their skills. Our market is a tiny market...but one that requires this essential pool of talent.

If the mark of a great society is its cultural heritage, we should value those responsible for its creation.

I wish there were easy answers...or any answers for that matter.

LOTS of great posts on this thread.

[Liquid360]

How many references in this thread alone to the dilemma of price matching with the 'hobbyist down the street'. Not many healthy industries are built on that premise.

Yes they are. It happens everywhere, in every business. It even happens between countries. "Sorry American workers, you're just too damn expensive. We're having China make the product."

Hahaha... Soon it will be "Mail your mixes to China" ...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Liquid360

Hahaha... Soon it will be "Mail your mixes to China" ...

You laugh. It's already happening, but it's India - not China. Welcome to the $10 mix.

[AstralPStudios]

Loved the whole article, but this part right here, still pertains to today's world:

"Most people in the studio business never make a profit, and we have to compete with this price structure. It's unrealistic competition."

Production isn't, should be conceived as nor expected to be cheap. 500 dollar package deals ruin the industry and offer a skewered view on production costs. Sure the economy sucks, but part of that is because there's no money circulating, so if folks keep offering these package deals the industry is gonna drop another $7b eventually...Probably sooner, rather than later.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by toneguru

Unionizing, regulation, registered certified, standardized rates. It all seems unfeasible and it would all come with a myriad of unintended consequences.

100 years ago, the horse & buggy industry probably posed some similar solutions to their dilemma. None of which would have helped.

I'll take on the second point first: The music industry is in NO danger of getting outmoded (horse & buggy style) -- if anything, the number of consumers worldwide (and amount of consumption) is growing continually. We don't owe it to anybody to "depart" now.

CONSUMERS WORLDWIDE ARE ENJOYING OUR WORK MORE AND MORE EVERY DAY AND EMPIRES ARE BEING MADE IN SILICON VALLEY ON THE PROCEEDS. (Sorry to "get medieval" on the caps lock).

And that counts sales of i-Thingys and Macs which are advertised to help you organize "your" (wink-wink) music collection. We GET it. Just like the "smoke shop" down the road sells those "water pipes" for "tobacco." "Get Broadband X for $20 a month and download movies and music faster!" Those are the ACTUAL ADS!

And the truth is I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE STREAMING OF MUSIC! I just want the "above board" version to be CONVENIENT and DEFINITIVE (crowding out "gray market" competition) and ASCAP and BMI to negotiate a "cut" for us that represents the true worth the music brings to the site, and then I would like to see that enforced so that as the industry grows, we grow with them -- just like the TV industry did during its boom.

--

On the unionizing issue: If a Vegas show, for instance, does bad business with a musician (in the union's judgment), the musicians' union will strike that show until the show's producers come to the bargaining table (or hire 100% "scabs"). I witnessed the WGA strike here in L.A. (Pinz bowling alley on Ventura even had a funny sign: "Writers Strike Here." If you don't get it, well, I guess you have never gone bowling...) -- anyway, the writers' strike was over income related to digital delivery. So: they had leverage and the producers and owners came to the table to work out as equitable a deal as possible. Do we have leverage? Not so much.

But with media consolidation, how many majors are there? And do they rely on the other unions which ARE strong? AFTRA, SAG, IATSE, the Teamsters (very heavily involved in film production), and more are vital labor organizations which keep this town producing media every day.

So if Warner, Sony, Vivendi/Universal, and Citigroup/EMI -- if all four had to deal with "sympathy strikes" in all of their American entertainment divisions and beyond -- are the caterers at Universal Studios' Theme Park SEIU-affiliated, for instance? -- they could be brought to the table. At this point minimums could be negotiated for union members, and the major labels could make decisions on whether they would like to be union "shops" or not. And, believe me, album production budgets are NOT what is sinking labels. Amounts that would be positively life-changing for an entire class of working production and engineering professionals would get rounded off in their bottom lines.

Those who work on movies & TV benefit from collective bargaining:

"I have been a union member for 30 years and what the union has given to me is security for my family. They have given me health care in a country that doesn’t provide health care and I think unions are a very important part of the middle class in America all we are trying to do is get a decent wage and have medical care.” -- Wally Pfister, Oscar winner -- Best Cinematography, "Inception"

But this will never happen. Thanks to generations of union-busting, trade unions no longer have the freedom to engage in "secondary strikes" in the U.S., UK, or Australia. If there are any Libertarians reading this, I am curious as to your outlook on whether organized labor should have this freedom as a basic right.

P.S. (U.S. citizens): I strongly believe that those among us who don't think they have a stake worth fighting for and a voice worthy of being heard in halls where the ideological battles in the political arena are being waged every day in this country are not only wrong or severely misguided, but working unknowingly in the service of that which is going to drive this country further and further towards the "cancer stage" of monopoly capitalism. And, believe me, that is NOT a good thing, unless you really DO want a return to the "Gilded Age" U.S. or Victorian England's rampant inequality -- a small upper crust of dynastic wealth and a huge tranche of working poor. "Ultimately, we have to decide if we are going to be a 'WE' society or a 'ME' society." "You're either part of the solution, or you're part of the problem." The legacy of this generation is still to be decided. "Being heard" in a democracy is about more than just voting.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano

But this will never happen. Thanks to generations of union-busting, trade unions no longer have the freedom to engage in "secondary strikes" in the U.S., UK, or Australia. If there are any Libertarians reading this, I am curious as to your outlook on whether organized labor should have this freedom as a basic right.

Welp, you asked, I'm here . Ron Paul 2012 yo.

Everyone should have the freedom to go on strike, fact is, we are entitled to be healthy, happy individuals and with the BS corporatism/information suppression going on right now (and for the past 100 years), we have got to be a WE society, we all have to put petty differences aside and work TOGETHER, no different than album production. If there's not a solidity in the union, how can anyone expect good? Same with production, if everyone is not on the same page, how will it succeed?

If a group is unhappy, what's the harm in making your voice heard and negotiating? You HAVE that right. Should a deal not be struck, you should be able to keep on striking until a deal has been reached that all agree on. I think it's perfectly fair.

I think everyone should be offered a basic health care package, at the very least, cover percentages of doctor visits and prescriptions (between 40-60%). Basically offer a very scaled down form of a bigger insurance package that covers surgeries and such, more similar to medicare though. Not completely free, but not completely outrageous.

[drBill]

As a long time Musicians Union member (30 years. Joined young.....), I can (unfortunately) and categorically tell you that if we have to rely on unions, we are screwed. Big time.

Last time we really struck, we were out a freaking YEAR. And we ended up with less than when we started. LESS!! People lost homes. Women became pregnant and had no delivery coverage. People got sick and died without insurance coverage. And all thanks to our blessed union. F'd us all, and persecuted those who they were charged to protect.

Those in charge have a huge sense of entitlement, zero common sense, are for the "elite" top 2% without adequate representation and coverage for the brotherhood. To boot, they are ABSOLUTELY clueless about technology, society, trends in economics, etc.. Totally clueless about health insurance and retirement issues for the common man, and on and on and.....

Starting to sound a bit familiar????

The only people more screwed up and crooked than our government representatives are our union leaders.....

With that,,,,,I'd better log off.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by drBill

As a long time Musicians Union member (30 years. Joined young.....), I can (unfortunately) and categorically tell you that if we have to rely on unions, we are screwed. Big time.

Last time we really struck, we were out a freaking YEAR. And we ended up with less than when we started. LESS!! People lost homes. Women became pregnant and had no delivery coverage. People got sick and died without insurance coverage. And all thanks to our blessed union. F'd us all, and persecuted those who they were charged to protect.

Those in charge have a huge sense of entitlement, zero common sense, are for the "elite" top 2% without adequate representation and coverage for the brotherhood. To boot, they are ABSOLUTELY clueless about technology, society, trends in economics, etc.. Totally clueless about health insurance and retirement issues for the common man, and on and on and.....

Starting to sound a bit familiar????

The only people more screwed up and crooked than our government representatives are our union leaders.....

With that,,,,,I'd better log off.

And that's the other side of the coin ^. Which is why we have to get those greedy money grubbing morons outta there. Don't even get me started on our terrible government/president...

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by GearHunter

I'm a veteran and have forgotten more about recording than 75% of the newbies out there, yet I have to compete with them. So basically I don't. That's why I only do a couple projects a year. If you can pay essentially $500 a day for me and the studio, you will get a fantastic recording. Any less than that, never mind.

Didn't plan a rant, but it ended up ranting.

I did some research on the history of the studio sector in Glasgow this year as a final year dissertation. Assuming the city is typical of most - though maybe not major recording centres like LA, London, NY etc - the competition you highlight actually makes for a pretty interesting picture. Since the first studio in the city opened in 1952, there have been around 130 studios, of which just 33 were in operation at the end date of the study. The average studio life is 5.7 years, and if you take out the handful which were durable enough to last over a decade, this figure drops to 4 years. Only only one has operated over what might be called "career duration", 30+ years and not surprisingly its the one with the Neve VR console :-)

The clear indication to me was that the reduced capital costs of setting up a studio mean more people enter the market, but have little if any understanding of the scale and nature of the marketplace. Once they arrive it becomes apparent that there is little money to be made, and scope to upgrade and stay up to date is limited - which of course means that the continual stream of new entrants to the market, with up to date gear have a competitive advantage - but ultimately the same fate awaits them. It is incredibly difficult to consolidate and build a functioning in this kind of business environment - its a constant churn.

Reading your post and considering the above made me wonder if there is further issue that in small and mid size cities nobody has time to really develop the skills and aural acuity to reach anything approaching veteran status. Not good for local music or musicians.

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