Starting and building a recording studio

[Rider365]

Was searching around google and found this pretty dope site. (Gear Slutz naturally lol). A site im sure i would like to stay a part of for a long while. With that said, my inquires stand as such.

My partner and i are starting a recording studio/ label. We have already obtained our state license and currently applying for our federal license. We have an advising board along with several participants (ie in-house engineers and producers). The question is... what other things are necessary to be a legit music business / recording studio ? Any type of licenses through BMI ? Trademarks ? Will we need to zone the building for loud noises or should the proofing within the building control alot of the noise radiating from the studio into the street ? Best way to construct the studio ? Known places to find good business grants (have looked through federal grant pages and cant find anything pertaining to our venue mostly eco friendly business's) ?

I know these questions may seem petty to a few of you but i have ran my head crazy trying to figure out the details without having to pay an expert. This business is all starting with out of pocket money and we are already pushing our budget to the limit.


for extra information this is a small list of our starting equipment.

Focusrite Saffire Pro24 Interface
Dynaudio BM5a Studio Monitors
Art PROVLA 2 channel compressor
Focusrite ISAONE Mic Pre
Neuman TLM103 Microphone
PT9 Xgrade Software
Custom Multi-OS Desktop (Mac snow leapord and win 7)
Pro Tools
Cubase
Lexicon Native Bundle
Waves complete and mercury
Reason

Thanks ahead to anyone that has the time and interest in sharing their opinions and experience.

PS.
Open to any equipment suggestions or replacements too !

[Rider365]

And to add our budget for EVERTHING (building lease, overhead and equipment) is in the $10,000-$20,000 range.

[orangeoctane]

Sell your Waves Mercury bundle and buy an Aurora 8 and some more outboard gear - compressors, EQs.

[e-are]

Yeah. Buy some outboard but I say keep the waves bundle.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

[Rider365]

Originally Posted by orangeoctane

Sell your Waves Mercury bundle and buy an Aurora 8 and some more outboard gear - compressors, EQs.

What kind of compressors and Eq's would be good for vocal use ? And what advantage does the digi to analog, analog to digi converter rack bring ?

Originally Posted by e-are

Yeah. Buy some outboard but I say keep the waves bundle.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App

What kind of outboard equipment ? That is a pretty broad statement lol.

Thank you both for your responses and your time

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Rider365

Was searching around google and found this pretty dope site. (Gear Slutz naturally lol). A site im sure i would like to stay a part of for a long while. With that said, my inquires stand as such.

My partner and i are starting a recording studio/ label. We have already obtained our state license and currently applying for our federal license. We have an advising board along with several participants (ie in-house engineers and producers). The question is... what other things are necessary to be a legit music business / recording studio ? Any type of licenses through BMI ? Trademarks ? Will we need to zone the building for loud noises or should the proofing within the building control alot of the noise radiating from the studio into the street ? Best way to construct the studio ? Known places to find good business grants (have looked through federal grant pages and cant find anything pertaining to our venue mostly eco friendly business's) ?

I know these questions may seem petty to a few of you but i have ran my head crazy trying to figure out the details without having to pay an expert. This business is all starting with out of pocket money and we are already pushing our budget to the limit.


for extra information this is a small list of our starting equipment.

Focusrite Saffire Pro24 Interface
Dynaudio BM5a Studio Monitors
Art PROVLA 2 channel compressor
Focusrite ISAONE Mic Pre
Neuman TLM103 Microphone
PT9 Xgrade Software
Custom Multi-OS Desktop (Mac snow leapord and win 7)
Pro Tools
Cubase
Lexicon Native Bundle
Waves complete and mercury
Reason

Thanks ahead to anyone that has the time and interest in sharing their opinions and experience.

PS.
Open to any equipment suggestions or replacements too !

What you have there isn't really a studio - it's a load of home recording gear. There's nothing that gear offers that most people don't have at home, but then again if it's meant as a work room for the label, that's fair enough. Just don't expect people to book it as a "studio".

I wouldn't necessarily listen to gear suggestions from people - listen to the guys you've got who are actually going to be using the stuff.

You may not be able to afford to pay an expert who can help you get this stuff right - but can you afford NOT to?

[doulos30]

so you want to start a buisness that everyone is losing money in an closing up shop for. You have a very low selection of real gear, yet magically a $9,000 plugin bundle hope you don't get audited. Just give up 10k isn't enough to scratch the surface for a studio space and you proably won't be able to aford the upkeep of the taxes which are every 3 months plus rent. You have nothing to draw customers to. Albums don't sell so I don't see what a label would be good for anyone can get on itunes, myspace, facebook, youtube, cd baby on their own.

what other things are necessary to be a legit music business / recording studio ?

* seperate sapaces from mixing and tracking
* zero latency monitoring
* seperate monitor mixes
* quiet ac
* bathroom
* lounge
* small kitchen or at leas coffee area
* instruments amps drums keys
* a mix enviorment with proper acoustics
* something to make you feel like a studio
* furniture racks a mixing board or controller
* headphone amp and at least 2-4 sets of decent cans
* the ability to record up to 8 inputs to record drums or bands liveish
* midi controllers both for mixing if you dont have a board
* and synth keyboards 88 weighted preferably plus 64 key synth action
* a vocal booth or proper comfertable vocal tracking area with proper acoustics
* street cred
* and most importantly good ears and ability
* last but not least a lava lamp

Known places to find good business grants (have looked through federal grant pages and cant find anything pertaining to our venue mostly eco friendly business's) ?

you - I would like money to start a buisness.
bank - what kind of buisness?
you - I'd like to make money with a recording studio
bank - ha ha ha ha ha no really whats your buisness
you -

[orangeoctane]

Originally Posted by doulos30

You have a very low selection of real gear, yet magically a $9,000 plugin bundle

You can buy a couple pretty nice used channel strips and a good set of converters for the same money and have $ left over to buy some meat and potatoes plugins. Hell, there's plenty of freeware plugins out there that do a really nice job. At this guy's stage of the game, the money tied up in Waves Mercury is a total waste IMO.

[Rider365]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

What you have there isn't really a studio - it's a load of home recording gear. There's nothing that gear offers that most people don't have at home, but then again if it's meant as a work room for the label, that's fair enough. Just don't expect people to book it as a "studio".

What would you recommend for STUDIO gear?

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

You may not be able to afford to pay an expert who can help you get this stuff right - but can you afford NOT to?

And that is a very valid point. If its going to be done have it done right. Where would i turn for such consultation?

[Rider365]

Originally Posted by doulos30

so you want to start a buisness that everyone is losing money in an closing up shop for. You have a very low selection of real gear, yet magically a $9,000 plugin bundle hope you don't get audited. Just give up 10k isn't enough to scratch the surface for a studio space and you proably won't be able to aford the upkeep of the taxes which are every 3 months plus rent. You have nothing to draw customers to. Albums don't sell so I don't see what a label would be good for anyone can get on itunes, myspace, facebook, youtube, cd baby on their own.

This brings up a very valid point. But we have covered those avenues as far as sales goes. We have registered accounts with all those sites and have paypal set up for such transactions. The $9,000 plugin bundle (waves) was purchased 2 years ago by myself. Most of our software is software accumulated over the years so a valid receipt can be presented if ever audited. We already understand the cost of rent and overhead plus the quarterly taxes. We have a regular income of $7,000 combined every three months ASIDE from the studio we want to start. Its not like we saved for years for this. Our budget has come from 2 months of work and a small investment from a third party.

Originally Posted by doulos30

* seperate sapaces from mixing and tracking
* zero latency monitoring
* seperate monitor mixes
* quiet ac
* bathroom
* lounge
* small kitchen or at leas coffee area
* instruments amps drums keys
* a mix enviorment with proper acoustics
* something to make you feel like a studio
* furniture racks a mixing board or controller
* headphone amp and at least 2-4 sets of decent cans
* the ability to record up to 8 inputs to record drums or bands liveish
* midi controllers both for mixing if you dont have a board
* and synth keyboards 88 weighted preferably plus 64 key synth action
* a vocal booth or proper comfertable vocal tracking area with proper acoustics
* street cred
* and most importantly good ears and ability
* last but not least a lava lamp

Lol no studio is complete without a lava lamp !

Originally Posted by doulos30

you - I would like money to start a buisness.
bank - what kind of buisness?
you - I'd like to make money with a recording studio
bank - ha ha ha ha ha no really whats your buisness
you -

Im sure with a proper and concise business plan or proposal would be enough to obtain a government grant. If not a grant at least a loan from the Small Business Administration.

[Rider365]

Originally Posted by orangeoctane

You can buy a couple pretty nice used channel strips and a good set of converters for the same money

What kind of channel strips and converters are you suggesting ?

[Rider365]

Thank you to everyone for their time and responses.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Rider365

Im sure with a proper and concise business plan or proposal would be enough to obtain a government grant. If not a grant at least a loan from the Small Business Administration.

You haven't said what country/city/etc. you are in.

In the US of A, that's what we call a pipedream.... Not gonna happen. Now, Europe or other places, I can't comment. Maybe in certain Socialist oriented countries it;s a go.....

[Rider365]

Originally Posted by drBill

You haven't said what country/city/etc. you are in.

In the US of A, that's what we call a pipedream.... Not gonna happen. Now, Europe or other places, I can't comment. Maybe in certain Socialist oriented countries it;s a go.....

It would be considerably beneficial if you provided suggestions that helps. Just waltzing in here saying "its a pipe dream" and "it wont happen" really holds no validity. Everything starts out as a dream, and even some ARE "pipe dreams", but how many have prevailed? plenty. Not all but plenty enough. Google was a pipe dream and so was facebook. Marketed properly you can gain an audience from all walks of life. So please leave the dream crushing and pessimistic comments to yourself and only reply with something appropriate. I came here looking for knowledgeable people to discuss problems i will face and how to possibly achieve a successful (not multi billion dollar) company.

[Rider365]

The reputation that proceeded this website when i was looking for a good place to converse with experienced and helpful members is quickly and epically failing itself. (This excludes the few members that have helpedthus far.

[StewartFang]

Well I hate crushing dreams but actually most are giving you very fair info...your initial investment...gear wise and cash...is too low to call yourself a studio...we haven't even got into building out the space where you are going to record and mix music....I don;t even see how you can record a drumkit without preamps...and the thing is is you don;t know that you need preamps, then you aren;t ready to go into this business...I actually believe this is busines with lots of opprtunities as I see change coming....but you aren't ready

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Rider365

It would be considerably beneficial if you provided suggestions that helps.

It would be considerably helpful for us to help you if you gave more information. For instance, I asked what country you were from. That was a serious question. You didn't bother answering. You will not get a grant or SBA loan for a recording studio in the US under current economic conditions. A businessman would know that. That's not a guess, that's a fact. That's helpful information. The most helpful thing I can tell you is the truth - even if you don't want to hear it now.

No need to get your panties all ini a wad though. The "pipedream" reference was not aimed at your plan, but rather at the thought that you could easily walk in and get a grant or SBC loan. THAT is the pipedream. But while we're on the subject of dreams....

If you want to live in a dream, you won't succeed in the current market. This is a hard, brutal business and you must be shrewd and smart. In addition to having the dream, you've got to have balls of steel, and the brains of Donald Trump. Your posts lead me to believe you come up short in the brains and balls dept.. That's not to say it's hopeless for you, after all - it starts with a dream - but you'd better toughen up if you want to start a recording studio when successful people who are well connected and have been in business for decades are going under faster than it can be reported on the internet. Although not what you wanted to hear, that's quality advice. Just sayin'.... If you want me to just send out pleasant joyful happy thoughts for you, meet me over at dreamers.com and I'll prop up your dreams over there. Here, we're about business. After all, this is the BUSINESS forum.

Originally Posted by Rider365

The reputation that proceeded this website when i was looking for a good place to converse with experienced and helpful members is quickly and epically failing itself..

Now insults? OK. Nevermind. See ya later....

[The Byre]

Ok, WTF! I'll wade in . . .

Rather than try to explain the realities of this business, or even draw the analogy between what you are trying to do and some thinking that they can start a taxi company by tying two bicycles together, I'll tell you a story -

When we built our studio, my lawyer suggested that I talk to the local council or some enterprise board - some government department responsible for that kind of 'government-largesse' thing. I called and got an appointment to talk to some woman who obviously had not the slightest clue about the music business, or indeed any business.

She told me that she was not at liberty to give us any money because they had just invested a 'considerable sum in a state-of-the-art recording studio' in the area. I was, of course, all ears and wanted to hear about this.

To cut a long story short, the local enterprise board had given some guy about £5k towards his project studio. I pointed out to the woman, that was the cost of two good microphones and I went on to list what things cost in the real world of professional audio. She was obviously shaken and had no idea that things cost as much as they did.

Well, we built our studio, using our own money and nine years into the game, it is a going concern and we are able to expand, build new studios and branch out into mobiles and other things.

The guy with the £5k? He has not yet had his first paying customer.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Rider365

What would you recommend for STUDIO gear?

How long is a piece of string? depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it, your area, your client base etc (you do have a potential client base, right? if not...don't start a studio!).

That's why you HIRE someone - these things take time.

Originally Posted by Rider365

And that is a very valid point. If its going to be done have it done right. Where would i turn for such consultation?

"Jobs offered" forum here would be a good start, but vet the replies very carefully. Alternatively try the time-honoured method of using google - "recording studio consultant" brings up a few links to start with.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by orangeoctane

Sell your Waves Mercury bundle and buy an Aurora 8 and some more outboard gear - compressors, EQs.

The big issue here is it's very painful to process a 30 track mix with 2 SSL strips.

It's not so difficult with the Waves SSL strips since buying once gives you as many of them as you like.

OP - ignore the 'Gearslutz' , they are not experts, they are hobbyists that do not understand business. There is a small sound improvement but it is not warranted against the time saving measures found in plugins. With your current equipment list, you are DEFINITELY a project studio, and by and large, your clientele really couldn't give a flying hoof whether it's digital or analogue, as long as you give them a product they like the sound of for the price they can afford, they are happy.

According to GS, plugins are useless and you should only use outboard. The fact that plugin companies exist at all prove that actually, in the professional domain, there is every application for them, and that if you are in this game to MAKE MONEY, you will find that Waves Mercury is a far more economic purchase than some converters and a few nice outboard units.

This is why Gearslutz is a very bad place to ask questions about business. People answer your question with their studio-wishlist-on-your-budget, not their actual analysis of what will be most profitable for your new business.

[orangeoctane]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

OP - ignore the 'Gearslutz' , they are not experts, they are hobbyists that do not understand business.

*yawn*...

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by orangeoctane

*yawn*...

True though.

If you took the business advice of Gearslutz (to start a studio you need an LFC a tape machine, tons of outboard, an acoustically built room and a professional engineer) then every new studio would be bankrupt before it opened.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

then every new studio would be bankrupt before it opened.

Whaaaaaaa.....

I thought every new studio WAS bankrupt before they opened? Did miss a memo somewhere?!?!?

Seriously though, almost ALL studios are seriously financially insolvent before the doors swing open. The ones that can survive a couple of years are propped up by one of two things :

1 - An industry vet who can drag in paying clients. Good clients - not teenage bands. And/or :

2 - serious financial backup in the form of trust fund, drug money, lotto winner, etc.. Even Doctor/Lawyer investors who wanted to be rockstars don't have enough money anymore to keep the fires burning at a real studio.

[orangeoctane]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

True though.

If you took the business advice of Gearslutz (to start a studio you need an LFC a tape machine, tons of outboard, an acoustically built room and a professional engineer) then every new studio would be bankrupt before it opened.

I just can't justify a $9000 set of plugins for a *small* start up studio. I'd rather have a good set of converters (I didn't recommend some esoteric $10,000 AD, I offered an Aurora 8 which is a pretty solid performer without breaking the bank), and a couple good channel strips to get things cleanly and solidly into the DAW. Beyond that, there are other plugin choices that are FAR less in cost than Waves that will be a bigger bang for the buck.

What if this guy had a $25,000 U47 in his mic arsenal at this stage of the game? Could you really justify keeping that mic when so many other links in the chain are so weak? Why not get a great sounding U47 alternative and a couple other solid performers and have $10,000 left to spend in other areas?

As far as tons of outboard gear go, it's personal preference. I have a great mix of both outboard and plugins. I like and use both.

Acoustically treated rooms are necessary to an extent. Depends on the room. If a room sounds really bad, you'll have to treat it. In the control room, you can learn the room, learn the monitors, learn your headphones and be able to get along okay with minimal treatment. You may have to walk around the room while you are mixing and it might take several weeks/months to really understand the characteristics room and it's definitely going to take a lot longer to mix in. In a room where you use microphones, if the room sounds bad, you'll have no choice but to correct it. For the size studio this guy is wanting to start, an acoustically designed room may not be necessary but knowing what's wrong with the room you choose and knowing how to fix it is VITAL.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by orangeoctane

I just can't justify a $9000 set of plugins for a *small* start up studio. I'd rather have a good set of converters (I didn't recommend some esoteric $10,000 AD, I offered an Aurora 8 which is a pretty solid performer without breaking the bank), and a couple good channel strips to get things cleanly and solidly into the DAW. Beyond that, there are other plugin choices that are FAR less in cost than Waves that will be a bigger bang for the buck.

Waves Mercury isn't $9k. Yes that may be the list, but if I was buying it 2nd hand, I wouldn't want to pay any more than $3k, easily.

Given that he already owns it, selling it is a v bad idea. Add to it yes (and I don't disagree with the rest of your advice) but selling it just isn't worthwhile - there's just too much good stuff there.

I certainly wouldn't advice a startup studio to INVEST in Waves mercury as a necessity, but that's not what's being asked.

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by Rider365

The reputation that proceeded this website when i was looking for a good place to converse with experienced and helpful members is quickly and epically failing itself. (This excludes the few members that have helpedthus far.

remember when you posted in the acoustics forum and I said you'd get better quality answers here?

Seriously, with you budget, and current gear list, think of going with a small mobile rig you carry to locations. Invest in a storage trailer and some portable acoustical treatments. Build your gear locker slowly, at your pace, and under your own needs. Figure out your week spots based on your workflow and tonal vision. All opinions on channel strips and mics are useless... unless you trust the source.

All this while saving money for a brick and mortar location. Don't be surprised when the build out costs deep into 6 figures.

Don't lease or rent... purchase. Need some sure money

[Rider365]

Ive got a meeting to get to in 20 minutes. but i thank everyone for their responses. barely read any of them but i will reply when i get back. With ALL information everyones asking for. And to dr. bill you are quick to make assumptions. not at all am i lacking the nuts or the brains. i will address this when i return.

PS.

Dont get me wrong im not upset at all or am i emotionally upset from the comments. I KNOW this is a cutthroat business. I know what im getting into and i understand for the MOST part what i need as far as equipment. The list was a short list. I will write the hole list of equipment when i get back. I was mostly looking for the business end of help as this is the business forum. If it was gear i would post in the gear forum.

Thanks

[doulos30]

If you took the business advice of Gearslutz (to start a studio you need an LFC a tape machine, tons of outboard, an acoustically built room and a professional engineer) then every new studio would be bankrupt before it opened.

you neve got these calls? Im looking for a studio I saw your page, but I didn't soo what kind of console are you using? I see so no console oh you have a midi controller and plugins then he Looks on his desk with his one automated fader and plugin controller. Then he pulls up his cracked plug in suite thats 100x times yours cause no one will come in an check his computer he won't be audited etc. well thanks anyway

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Rider365

And to dr. bill you are quick to make assumptions.

Well.....all I had to go on was your posts and how you come off. Sorry. I offered good advice about SBC and Grants, but you took it as crushing your dream. Believing that you can secure either in today's market pretty much IS a pipedream. Still assuming you're in the US, but you may not be as you never answered that question....

[StewartFang]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

True though.

If you took the business advice of Gearslutz (to start a studio you need an LFC a tape machine, tons of outboard, an acoustically built room and a professional engineer) then every new studio would be bankrupt before it opened.

no man you just need essentials to be a recording studio and ten grand wont cut it...but hey if you wanna feed him more BS...go ahead... you must have some agenda, because most are trying to guide the guy right