Just need advice...

[Theindiefort]

So I've been engineering and producing for almost 8 years now but still don't feel like I've established myself as an engineer/producer or a studio. I am only 21, so people tend to not take me seriously at first, but that shouldn't be an issue in my opinion...and who knows, it might not even be a problem.

But basically, I just really suck at promoting myself. I would like some tips on how to promote my studio to get more business. But heres the deal, I read these forums all the time and I never find the answers I want/need.

Here is a link to my website www.TheIndieFort.com. If anyone has any advice on my website, equipment, studio design/layout, prices, promotion ideas, ANYTHING, please please please let me know!

Thanks!

[Theindiefort]

I also just wanted y'alls opinion on whether or not it's my promotion strategies that are keeping me from being busy or if it's my equipment/studio or my age or even my talent. I don't mind criticism. My studio website is www.TheIndieFort.com

Thanks for any advice/thoughts

[therealbigd]

Out of interest, how did you manage to get an AWS900+, MCI Tape Machine and Pro Tools HD3 setup without first getting a good number of well paying clients?

[The_Shoe]

I'd have to say that one of your problems is the perception your business is giving off to your clients. You have hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear in your room and your rates, like that of many of a young buck trying to break into this industry are just to low.

Myself as a client see your rates as inexperience or the product of a bad business plan.

You have to understand that when you price your studio and services that low and you factor in your age, most clients will not take you seriously. They can't figure how a studio with that much potential debt can afford to pay the bills and that makes your business dangerous to clients and debtors. And if in fact you owe no debt on you gear and it was a gift, your rates still show a great deal of inexperience because any engineer and studio worth a grain of salt isn't going to price themselves that low. It's not being competitive. It's telling the community in your area that you think you aren't worth what the other studios are. If you have the best room in town, sell and price it that way.

Artist are looking for value when it comes to recording, no question. But sometimes extreme value is no good for the artist or the studio. There has to be a good reason why this studio has so much expensive gear and charging so little. Usually it's not a good reason.

Obviously you feel you have a great deal to offer the industry. Other wise you wouldn't have spent so much money to build a room and bought such high quality equipment. Do yourself and the industry a favor and charge accordingly.

I plead to all of you young guys building rooms and coming into the industry please learn your worth and charge accordingly. You are going to ruin it for everyone if you keep driving down prices. And you will find over time that at such low prices, as you gain success you will have priced yourself out of monetary growth. No one wants to pay you X amount when they know you used to charge Y.

Also spend some money on the vibe of your rooms. A good environment makes Artists want to leave bits and pieces of themselves on your walls.

John Schirmer
www.twelve-tone-music.com
www.kebmo.com
Nashville, Tn


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[DanDaMan]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

Out of interest, how did you manage to get an AWS900+, MCI Tape Machine and Pro Tools HD3 setup without first getting a good number of well paying clients?

Lets not forget the fact that he also got CLASP as well, that's at least £6000.

[Philreno]

The studio looks great , guys. I think the problem might be the moustaches !

Classic UK Recording Studios by Phil Burns

[Matt@Oracle.]

I agree, your rates are just to low. I mean I'm almost in the exact same situation you are. I'm 21 with 6 years experience, just opened at studio. I'm working reasonably regularly (enough for it to be my only form of income) and I'm charging $40AUD an hour. I do NOT have to overheads you would either, I operate out of 3 rooms at a rehearsal studio, and am not running a LFAC nor do I own a HD3.

I think you need to promote your services and not your SSL, its one of the first things you mention on your website.

[therealbigd]

Based on the above, I would take your rates off the site altogether. Just put 'there are too many variables to offer any fixed rate, so you're advised to call us for the best deal. Studio time can be had for as little as $225 so it is worth calling for all budgets".

Thing is, your rate is $225. Most professional engineers working from SSL with HD3 will charge that FOR THEIR WAGE ALONE. You are including an assistant (who should be wanting half that again), and a studio (which should be wanting 1 or 2x your entire rate by itself).

To my mind, the fact you're realistically offering a $500/day studio for $225/day including engineer and assistant, suggests that the engineer and assistant are worth about $-275/day. And that means... they're SH!T !

Depending on what's included, our place can be as little as $375/day with engineer no assistant. And that's AMEK->HD2. To add an assistant would bring us up to $500.

So, I'm not saying 'bring your rates up'. That's not the answer. But, don't publicise them - that is. If you go to a posh-people shop, nothing on the shelf has a price. They run the risk of some posh people being rich because they're stingey, and not paying $75 for a polo shirt. But, if they charge $35 for it, they run the risk that the people who are rich because they earn tons, won't buy some cheap-ass $35 polo shirt. So they don't advertise the price. If the person asks how much it costs, the shop will tell them. If they say 'no, not interested' - they wouldn't have been interested if the price HAD been on it. But in many cases, the person will just dump all their items on the counter and pay on credit card.

So, just, take the rates off. I think it'll help. It just says to me "$225 for TWO members of staff, and a top level studio... what am I not getting?".

Next up, I just think you need to orientate the studio website as to why a BAND wants to come to the studio.

Let's look at the site...

Indie Fort Studios is an analoge/digital recording and production studio located in the beautiful Texas hill country just 25 minutes from downtown Austin. We offer a unique creative experience you can only get at the Fort. We are the first studio in Texas that is using the brand new CLASP system by Endless Analog. This System is a one of a kind revolution in the recording industry that allows our 24 track MCI analog tape machine to work seamlessly with Pro Tools HD. In other terms, instead of having to spend countless hours bouncing the tape tracks to Pro Tools while loosing some of the quality in the process, the music is now being recorded to Pro Tools simultaneously with the tape machine, giving your final track the traditional feeling and sound of tape but the editing power and clarity of Pro Tools

What was it, that, prior to writing that, made you think your clients would actually give a flying funk about whether use tape or Pro Tools? That's not something bands, on the whole, really care for. They want to know why they should record there, and why recording with you is of benefit to them. That said, to producers and engineers, you've written the right stuff.

Problem is, your rate fits independent bands, your blurb fits producers and engineers (higher budget stuff). That's where it goes wrong IMO. Your site is all mix and match, some of it is aimed at bands and newbies, some is aimed at pros and high-earners. But your rate only fits the former. That's why you need to replace $225 with '$Phone' . Then you can decide what they're worth, and how much you want to charge.

[Theindiefort]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

Out of interest, how did you manage to get an AWS900+, MCI Tape Machine and Pro Tools HD3 setup without first getting a good number of well paying clients?

I've been lucky enough to find an Angel Investor who believes in what I can do. I've put in near $40k of my own money over the years and he has supplied the rest, I normally wouldn't suggest an investor because often times they try to control you, but in my case he is an old family friend that just loves music and wanted to help me with my dream... And he has a lot of money


-Cory Dennis
www.TheIndieFort.com

[Theindiefort]

Also, thank you to everyone who gave their advice, that's all stuff I've never thought about before. I should have posted on here years ago...haha.

As for my clientele, my customers almost always come back to me for their next projects, and I do have my months where I'm pretty busy. I'm just typically not as busy as I think I should be or want to be. I definitely see now how my website has not been set up right, so thank you guys a thousand times for helping me with that! But does anyone have any ideas about how to get my name out there other than the "norm" (going to shows to meet bands, flyers, myspace, etc...) ??

Thus far the only way I've even gotten bands in my studio is from referrals from bands who just ran across my myspace page or something and recorded here. Which I guess is a good sign, I just want to be more proactive about getting clients. And the whole meeting bands at shows thing doesn't really work for a guy my age because the more professional bands see me as young and inexperienced, and the bands my age are typically poor as shit.

Thanks for y'alls comments!

-Cory Dennis
www.TheIndieFort.com

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by Theindiefort

Also, thank you to everyone who gave their advice, that's all stuff I've never thought about before. I should have posted on here years ago...haha.

As for my clientele, my customers almost always come back to me for their next projects, and I do have my months where I'm pretty busy. I'm just typically not as busy as I think I should be or want to be. I definitely see now how my website has not been set up right, so thank you guys a thousand times for helping me with that! But does anyone have any ideas about how to get my name out there other than the "norm" (going to shows to meet bands, flyers, myspace, etc...) ??

Thus far the only way I've even gotten bands in my studio is from referrals from bands who just ran across my myspace page or something and recorded here. Which I guess is a good sign, I just want to be more proactive about getting clients. And the whole meeting bands at shows thing doesn't really work for a guy my age because the more professional bands see me as young and inexperienced, and the bands my age are typically poor as shit.

Thanks for y'alls comments!

-Cory Dennis
www.TheIndieFort.com

Facebook
Start a Facebook group. Post updates "so and so in the studio". Post session photos. Post videos off your phone. All that kinda stuff. Keeps people interested. More about Facebook exploitation below.

Twitter
Post updates "so and so in the studio" and "new piece of kit arrived" and "new blog post up now" and stuff.

Blog
Do the Facebook thing but in more detail. Write some little mini-articles that secretly tell people why to use the studio. IE: Convenience of Pro Tools vs Sound of Tape... this is why WE use Clasp! Lockouts vs 8 hour days... this is why we offer lockouts for just $.... more than an 8 hour day. Etc. Upload loads of photos and stuff too.


Competition
This is where Facebook is great. My personal favourite at the moment is the Facebook competition. It's a great way to get loads of people watching the studio Facebook page. You need to wait til you have a few bands on the studio page (as many as poss)... then...

1) Find a 5 day period in the calendar where things are looking a bit empty. Decide that this will now be given away FREE
2) Go on Facebook and post an update listing the dates saying "this time is FREE and will be given to bands based on a public vote. What you need to do is post a link to your band on our wall, and the band who gets the most 'likes' will win the studio time. PS: here's an illustration of how to mail out to all your friends on facebook telling them to vote for you".
3) Bands will all do exactly that. and band members who have friends who are in other bands will unsuspectingly be sharing the competition with them. so those bands will get in on it. and to 'like' something on a group, you have to be a group member. so, basically, the idea is you should end up with a lot of bands adding themselves to the competition, as well as a lot of random people becoming group members (as well as band members). these are people who you can mail out to using facebook to post adverts.
4) Give a 10% discount to everyone else who entered the competition.

It works. Proper.


Mailing List
See above.

Free Stuff (nothing is free!)
• Get a free studio day! (when you book 3)
•*Get 100 free CDs duplicated (with a 10 day record&mix session)
• Get a free sharpie (randomly selected 100 people from our facebook group)
• etc.


Interaction with Local Music Community
•*Sponsor battle of the bands by providing recording prizes.
• Accommodate instrument teachers free of charge (in the live room whilst you work in C/R) allowing reduced rate lessons for people.
•*Become involved with the local church - offering recording to them at a discounted rate as a community group.

Networking Events and Listening Parties
• Setup a 'listening party' for a band's release (one you recorded). Put some speakers up in the live room and play it start to finish. Get some bottled beers and nibbles out on the tables and invite other local engineers, bands, A&R, label bosses, whatever. Put one of your engineers in the C/R to show people some of the sessions and chat a bit how you used the studio's gear to achieve things. This'll be great fun, you'll meet some useful people, and it's good advertising for the studio.
•*Do a Gearslutty 'listening party'. Set up some mics in front of a source and record into Pro Tools and discuss the differences. Compare your tape, pro tools, and clasp. Compare plugins. whatever turns you on. either way, more bottled beers, more nibbles, more hospitality. yes it costs money but if you get 1 client for 1 day as a result, you make it all back.
Masterclass Events
• Do some teaching for a local school or youth project, or setup an 'Introduction to Recording' course for whoever. This can even cost money. But once they're 'qualified' engineers, guess where they're going to bring their projects?
• Get on YouTube with some demonstrations of the AWS or the CLASP system. Do some drum mic'ing technique lessons. Whatever. As long as it all gets posted to blog/twitter/facebook etc; it's all good, and you can chuck in the studio-promoting anecdotes wherever you fancy.

the list goes on

[Rick Sutton]

It takes time to build a solid client base, especially when you are "out of town". I know this from experience.
Keep at it. Raise your rates NOW, they are stupid low and hurting you. The trick is to attract clients looking for quality not clients looking for low rates. Quality is part reality and part perception. Low rates diminish the perception of quality.

[drBill]

In addition to the schizophrenic SSL vs $25 hr thing that many have mentioned, I'll mention something practical --

Your website is clunky and makes my browser freeze up. It ultimately unfreezes, but I don't like that. It annoys me terribly after being able to browse the world successfully only to get bogged down by your studio.....

now...

Best of luck. Personally, I'd look for an older experienced engineer to come on board with you. I don't care what your experience is or how good you are, if you're 21 y/o you're facing an uphill battle to get people to trust you. If you work with an older person, and they see you've got the goods, then they will start to trust you.

PS - take "indie" out of your name. Just "the Fort". period. Unless you only want to work with that segment of musicians. It might preclude Rappers, or Jazz guys, string quartets, bluegrass or ?? from calling and booking time.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by drBill

In addition to the schizophrenic SSL vs $25 hr thing that many have mentioned, I'll mention something practical --

Your website is clunky and makes my browser freeze up. It ultimately unfreezes, but I don't like that. It annoys me terribly after being able to browse the world successfully only to get bogged down by your studio.....

It's not just your system, mine does it too.

Best of luck. Personally, I'd look for an older experienced engineer to come on board with you. I don't care what your experience is or how good you are, if you're 21 y/o you're facing an uphill battle to get people to trust you. If you work with an older person, and they see you've got the goods, then they will start to trust you.

True, but obviously, this means paying somebody. And most sensible older people would probably be a bit peeved if they were offered a 30% or so cut of $225 a day. (considering it would then have to be split between 3 people and a studio).

PS - take "indie" out of your name. Just "the Fort". period. Unless you only want to work with that segment of musicians. It might preclude Rappers, or Jazz guys, string quartets, bluegrass or ?? from calling and booking time.

This is also true.



'indie' conjures up images of people who wear their guitars as bras.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by drBill

PS - take "indie" out of your name.

Good observation drBill.
best to dump it now before you get too associated with it. You never know what types of musician will become your core customers and you sure don't want to give the impression that you specialize in the type of music that they might not care for.

[woodnote]

I honestly don't even know how you can turn the lights on at $25 an hour with all that gear, AND pay an engineer and assistant engineer. I mean, you should at least be charging twice that. But now that you've established yourself as that cheap, how can you ever justify to your existing clients a raise in rates? And it may just be a regional thing, but what I think drbill was touching on, is you're going to attract a certain crowd with rates that low. And not a great crowd. I've got a very modest setup compared to what you have, and I charge $35/hr. It keeps the cheapskates off my door but brings in people who definitely know the value of what they're getting.

As for the website, I think I get what you're going for. It definitely has this retro, indie feel. It reminds me of hippie skateboarders from the 70's. The trouble is, I don't want to think of hippie skateboarders from the 70's when I'm going to a professional recording studio. I think if you re-designed your website and overall approach as something much more professional, you could probably charge a significant amount more without anyone batting an eye. And it probably wouldn't hurt to add audio samples, so people can hear how good you are!

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by woodnote

As for the website, I think I get what you're going for. It definitely has this retro, indie feel. It reminds me of hippie skateboarders from the 70's. The trouble is, I don't want to think of hippie skateboarders from the 70's when I'm going to a professional recording studio. I think if you re-designed your website and overall approach as something much more professional, you could probably charge a significant amount more without anyone batting an eye. And it probably wouldn't hurt to add audio samples, so people can hear how good you are!

That's a taste thing. I think the website is actually really nice. If it worked properly.

[DAS19]

I think the first mistake and biggest was thinking just because you have a nice room clients are going to come. You obviously know where the industry is and making a 100 thousand dollar investment and expecting to just sit back and watch your money come floating is just unrealistic. Do you have any valuable experience? Think of the business aspect. What would make people come to you over somebody else? If right now all you have is gear to offer and that's your only competitive advantage your going to have some problems.

Ps site looks very amateur

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Gearslutz.com App

[woodnote]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

That's a taste thing. I think the website is actually really nice. If it worked properly.

Fortunately, this is an occasion where we are being asked about our tastes. He's got some great gear and is potentially very good with it. I think if his website was more commercial looking and less artsy, he could be turning a better profit.

[therealbigd]

So, I thought I'd write a summary of what everyone else has said, but be brutally honest about it. This, in my eyes, and the eyes of my housemate, is what your website says about the studio, in the reader's eyes.


"Hi we're Indie Fort Studios. Well, we say studioS, and we advertise it as 'Room A', but there is actually only one studio. Anyway, basically we're 3 guys in our early twenties who've declared ourselves 'producers' although none of us actually have production credits. And we're 3 spoilt guys, where our families/inheritance/some other money tree has given us a fat wedge of cash and we've gone out and bought the best kit in the land despite the fact that we're not really good enough to use it yet. That's why it takes 2 of us to run a 1 man studio, and you still only have to pay us $225 a day between us. Well, actually, the main reason there's 2 of us in the studio is because we don't have normal jobs and just need something to do in the day. And that's why we only need $225 between us. But yeah, if you come to our studio we'll happily bore the f!!k out of you talking about our CLASP HD3 system until you lose all desire to play music, but don't worry, because it sounds like tape. That's a good thing, you see. So yeah, come to the studio. Don't worry about the fact that we've not got credits or even so much as feedback from clients; or that we only need paying a few quid a day to keep us happy - since we're not really good enough to earn big yet. The fact that we've got an SSL and a CLASP system will make it all worthwhile."

Unfortunately, to the cynic, that is how it reads.

[Theindiefort]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

So, I thought I'd write a summary of what everyone else has said, but be brutally honest about it. This, in my eyes, and the eyes of my housemate, is what your website says about the studio, in the reader's eyes.


"Hi we're Indie Fort Studios. Well, we say studioS, and we advertise it as 'Room A', but there is actually only one studio. Anyway, basically we're 3 guys in our early twenties who've declared ourselves 'producers' although none of us actually have production credits. And we're 3 spoilt guys, where our families/inheritance/some other money tree has given us a fat wedge of cash and we've gone out and bought the best kit in the land despite the fact that we're not really good enough to use it yet. That's why it takes 2 of us to run a 1 man studio, and you still only have to pay us $225 a day between us. Well, actually, the main reason there's 2 of us in the studio is because we don't have normal jobs and just need something to do in the day. And that's why we only need $225 between us. But yeah, if you come to our studio we'll happily bore the f!!k out of you talking about our CLASP HD3 system until you lose all desire to play music, but don't worry, because it sounds like tape. That's a good thing, you see. So yeah, come to the studio. Don't worry about the fact that we've not got credits or even so much as feedback from clients; or that we only need paying a few quid a day to keep us happy - since we're not really good enough to earn big yet. The fact that we've got an SSL and a CLASP system will make it all worthwhile."

Unfortunately, to the cynic, that is how it reads.

I actually want to thank you for that, it was a wee bit rude, but I can totally see how it could read like that. I just want to explain some of it: the reason we have two people there at a time is because I am trying to teach and train Aaron and Todd(the other 2 guys) to be able to run the studio when I not be there. The $40k that I put into the studio was earned by cleaning pools, mowing lawns, and bartending 6 nights a week for a year, I still lived at home because it was my senior year of highschool so I was able to save all the money from that. The rest however came from a good friend of my family that believes in me and was willing to invest. I have won an AMA for my work with Mother Falcon (a 15 piece orchestra-pop band). And a few other minor things...unfortunately nothing huge. I do have a second digital editing studio that uses a Control 24 and other random stuff. I just took it off the website because I am renovating it.

I'm not trying to do a "told you so" thing, because you may be right about some of the stuff. I'm just trying to tell you more about my situation. With that said, I hope you can help me with some changes and edits I can make to my site so that it reads better to people. I really don't want the image that was portrayed to you.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me some ideas that would give me more professional of an image.

Thank you so much!


-Cory Dennis
www.TheIndieFort.com

[The Byre]

1. Really drop the 'Indie' title!

2. Take the rates off the site.

3. Don't look to rock-pop-C&W etc., for most of your income, but contact all possible customers, such as churches, choirs, amateur orchestras and send them a well produced and professionally printed and designed brochure.

4. Get local wannabee engineers that are good enough, to feed you clients with themselves behind the desk.

5. Offer an all-in turnkey service to the choirs, churches, etc. That means offering them everything from recording to mastering and CD design, replication and building their websites. The learning curve is steep here, but many customers really want an all-in-one, one-stop service, especially the non-rock clientèle!

6. Expand the size of the recording room if possible. Big rooms are hard to find and amateur orchestras and choirs need somewhere to record.

7. Take a long, hard look at offering a mobile service, possibly trailer-based.

8. Did I mention dropping the 'Indie' bit?

[therealbigd]

I wasn't trying to say that was the case. But that is how it reads on first look.

Originally Posted by Theindiefort

I actually want to thank you for that, it was a wee bit rude, but I can totally see how it could read like that.

It wasn't rude it was honest. Learning the difference will help you a lot in this industry where 90% of people don't mind being 'honest' at each other.

I just want to explain some of it: the reason we have two people there at a time is because I am trying to teach and train Aaron and Todd(the other 2 guys) to be able to run the studio when I not be there.

In that case I wouldn't call them assistant engineers. Honestly, as it stands it just looks like you want your mates in the studio because it's fun. A studio of your size doesn't need an engineer and an assistant, so people are going to begrudge paying a rate that includes an assistant when they don't want/need one. Just but 'includes an engineer' and when they arrive they can find out that you have somebody in learning the studio, just ask them when they arrive if they're cool with that.

The $40k that I put into the studio was earned by cleaning pools, mowing lawns, and bartending 6 nights a week for a year, I still lived at home because it was my senior year of highschool so I was able to save all the money from that. The rest however came from a good friend of my family that believes in me and was willing to invest.

Not saying it wasn't. You're lucky. It just looks like 3 rich kids and a big studio though.

I have won an AMA for my work with Mother Falcon (a 15 piece orchestra-pop band). And a few other minor things...

And the website users know that how?

unfortunately nothing huge. I do have a second digital editing studio that uses a Control 24 and other random stuff. I just took it off the website because I am renovating it.

I would debate adding it to the 'studios' page with an 'under construction' tag, since many people will be looking at the site with the future in mind?



Oh, and finally. I mentioned 'blog' above. I see you have one. And it's been updated about 5 times in the last year. How busy do you think this makes your studio look?