Shut up_Make Coffee

[s2_Audio]

Entitlement expectations of young recording engineers

So you have spent thousands of dollars getting an education in recording arts and science and you enter the market place expecting to be paid, how foolish are you. Do you even know how to make coffee? The recording studio business is a customer service business and if you can't service your customers past the esoteric mechanical skills you paid for at school you ain't got shizzle.

In my world of professional recording studio operations us seasoned folks, with over twenty years in, see an emerging trend. It is a trend of new people entering the business with no concept of customer service past their ability to deliver a product by performing the monkey work they learned in school. They are mostly uncouth, unrefined machines looking to be famous, wealthy or just believe in the ad that read "Work Less, Earn More" showing a recording engineer hard at work sitting at his recording console.

Here are the 4 Ups young people:

First Up: Listen Up ...Listen to the old people in your business ...they are your history
Second Up: Clean Up ...that is your job, your space speaks volumes about you
Third Up: Stand Up ...Take ownership in where ever you land, make it your studio, your home
Forth Up: Shut Up ...How ya gonna learn anything if your always trying convince others that your cool and knowledgeable? Shut up and make coffee.

Scott Spain Recording Engineer

[e-cue]

I got my 1st assisting gig because the engineer liked the way I made his cappuccinos (my room mate in college was a Barista).

[therecordinghous]

i engineer AND make the coffee around here. wouldn't have it any other way.

[therecordinghous]

oh, i also clean up occasionally too.

[s2_Audio]

NICE!!!! @ 16 years old when I was hanging out in the studio the owner threw me his keys and asked me to wash his car. I was bummed until I saw his cherry 66 GTO that needed a bath.

Scott Spain Recording Engineer

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by therecordinghous

oh, i also clean up occasionally too.

me too, but S2 is right, these schools in my opinion are ripping people off. They go to school and anticipate being able to work as an engineer. My wise guy question to people going to these schools was did you learn to make coffee and wrap wires? The truth is, this is an apprenticeship trade, you start from the very bottom and if you have the talent, desire, determination maybe you can earn a living

[therealbigd]

Nothing wrong with the schools. They teach recording, not how to run a recording studio.

The problem is with students and it's not just in the recording industry. They come out of university knowing the best way to EQ a female vocal but have no idea how to make a customer enjoy their time at the studio; yet expect to walk into the first studio with a 72 channel SSL and be given a 5 days a week job engineering huge bands, and then wonder why it is they actually struggle to get a soldering job in some small project place.

It's not just in recording. In the live industry they all want to tour with the top bands as FOH before they've pushed flight cases for smaller ones.

[joelpatterson]

There is so much mythology swirling around the music industry... which is the natural state of affairs, when the "product" is "pure emotional enthusiasm" (otherwise known as "good music.")

I've never seen a study to prove it, but I believe that part/parcel of the whole deal is to mask the gritty underside and keep all behind-the-scenes drudgery as invisible as possible. Think of your standard "record album." Everything about its packaging and presentation is molded to convince you it spontaneously burst out of nowhere-- the time it took, the dissatisfactions and bruised egos along the way, none of that dare be alluded to. That would spoil everything!

So no wonder you got starry eyed innocents clamoring to be let in! Riddle me this: have you ever gone to a party outdoors, everyone is hanging out on the patio, having a great time, and you gaze off into the sunset and in a drunken delirium say to yourself, "man... I want to be a bricklayer!!"

[foamboy]

Originally Posted by s2_Audio

Entitlement expectations of young recording engineers


In my world of professional recording studio operations us seasoned folks, with over twenty years in, see an emerging trend. It is a trend of new people entering the business with no concept of customer service past their ability to deliver a product by performing the monkey work they learned in school. They are mostly uncouth, unrefined machines looking to be famous, wealthy or just believe in the ad that read "Work Less, Earn More" showing a recording engineer hard at work sitting at his recording console.


Scott Spain Recording Engineer

Of course I am not assuming that you are only refering to the music/studio business,but just to elaborate...it is a trend among the youth of today PERIOD!

I don't want to sound like grampa Jones,but I am constantly surprised at the lack of social skills in most service type industries. Whether it is a studio,tech support,or the good ol' drive thru at Burger King. My wife works for a large grocery chain and she is constantly amazed at the overwhelmed and lost look that these young employees have in their googly little eyes.

I have friends that have actual businesses in which they work with recent grads in all industries and train them how to be "professional". These "coaches" are hired by some of the biggest corporations in the world to help train their staff on professionalism. And I am not talking about general h.s and college grads, I am talking about post grads with masters AND ph.d's!

Of course I have a billion ideas as to why this is so pervasive,but I will just shut up now.


fb

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by s2_Audio

Entitlement expectations of young recording engineers

So you have spent thousands of dollars getting an education in recording arts and science and you enter the market place expecting to be paid, how foolish are you. Do you even know how to make coffee? The recording studio business is a customer service business and if you can't service your customers past the esoteric mechanical skills you paid for at school you ain't got shizzle.

In my world of professional recording studio operations us seasoned folks, with over twenty years in, see an emerging trend. It is a trend of new people entering the business with no concept of customer service past their ability to deliver a product by performing the monkey work they learned in school. They are mostly uncouth, unrefined machines looking to be famous, wealthy or just believe in the ad that read "Work Less, Earn More" showing a recording engineer hard at work sitting at his recording console.

Here are the 4 Ups young people:

First Up: Listen Up ...Listen to the old people in your business ...they are your history
Second Up: Clean Up ...that is your job, your space speaks volumes about you
Third Up: Stand Up ...Take ownership in where ever you land, make it your studio, your home
Forth Up: Shut Up ...How ya gonna learn anything if your always trying convince others that your cool and knowledgeable? Shut up and make coffee.

Scott Spain Recording Engineer

Interns: !!! Scott Speaks the Truth!

But still Hear this warning, as I did an internship and made coffee.....

Now I am addicted to coffee!!! I can't stop drinking fresh pots! I am screwed in life now.....

Gotta go re-heat my luke warm cup

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

Nothing wrong with the schools. They teach recording, not how to run a recording studio.

The problem is with students and it's not just in the recording industry. They come out of university knowing the best way to EQ a female vocal but have no idea how to make a customer enjoy their time at the studio; yet expect to walk into the first studio with a 72 channel SSL and be given a 5 days a week job engineering huge bands, and then wonder why it is they actually struggle to get a soldering job in some small project place.

It's not just in recording. In the live industry they all want to tour with the top bands as FOH before they've pushed flight cases for smaller ones.

you mean they think they know how to eq a female vocal. They think they know how to do it all and at least out of what I've seen, they know VERY little. And even less about as you say about how to make a customer have a positive experience.

[Jules]

BTW, if you are making coffee, dont make "one hour" coffee.

Thats the one where the teaboy / intern / assistant, stands in the kitchen with a tea spoon in their hand NEXT TO the coffee / tea cups - but is yakking to to someone (possibly on the phone) and actually has no intention of making the drinks until someone comes looking for them... or catches on to their game..

So .. the one hour cup of coffee..

It all about the spoon...

Very subtle & expertly snide..

[Torea]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Riddle me this: have you ever gone to a party outdoors, everyone is hanging out on the patio, having a great time, and you gaze off into the sunset and in a drunken delirium say to yourself, "man... I want to be a bricklayer!!"

I did once, but only because I was maybe 8 and they were building a noise wall by the freeway and it looked so cool!

[AstralPStudios]

And this is where I'm different from the rest of you...If someone is interning for me
and they're doing an exceptional job, they'll get paid for their time just like everyone should be. Free labor is wrong.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Interns: !!! Scott Speaks the Truth!

But still Head this warning, as I did an internship and made coffee.....

Now I am addicted to coffee!!! I can't stop drinking fresh pots! I am screwed in life now.....

Gotta go re-heat my luke warm cup

Maybe Dave Grohl could point you to a good coffee rehab clinic! Might need one myself!

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by AstralPStudios

And this is where I'm different from the rest of you...If someone is interning for me
and they're doing an exceptional job, they'll get paid for their time just like everyone should be. Free labor is wrong.

Well said! My first gig was free for one week. I started get paid from the second week on, still am 31 years later.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by Beyersound

Well said! My first gig was free for one week. I started get paid from the second week on, still am 31 years later.

That sounds about how I work with others. Realistically would be more like
two weeks but that's still not that bad.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Torea

I did once, but only because I was maybe 8 and they were building a noise wall by the freeway and it looked so cool!

From such humble, chance encounters are born the great architects! And I bet you did the thing where you draped bedsheets over chairs to make a secret hide-out fort!

[Torea]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

From such humble, chance encounters are born the great architects! And I bet you did the thing where you draped bedsheets over chairs to make a secret hide-out fort!

Ha! Just bedsheets and chairs? I used the whole freakin room! My parents didn't like that too much... neither did my friends' parents tutt

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Riddle me this: have you ever gone to a party outdoors, everyone is hanging out on the patio, having a great time, and you gaze off into the sunset and in a drunken delirium say to yourself, "man... I want to be a bricklayer!!"

Happens to me all the time! Some of the richest people I know, started out as 'brickies'!

Brickies build houses and the last I heard, people actually are prepared to pay for houses.

[somethingstarted]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Happens to me all the time! Some of the richest people I know, started out as 'brickies'!

Brickies build houses and the last I heard, people actually are prepared to pay for houses.

Yall have really gotten me thinking. i mean i'm fairly new to this (19 and no album yet [well 1 but it was an experiment for church and i can't sell it or share it cuz i dont want us to get sewed haha) and i was seriously thinking about going to the Art institute and learn how to record, but i dont know if that will benefit me as much as i thought it would.

i need training in technique, styles, flows, feel, people/customer skills,

not what an Eq does or what preset to use when, thats common sense and fails easily when not careful.


NO i wanna learn how much sugar should go in 1.3 cups of coffie, but yet if they want a lil sweeter taste in their coffie, should i add a taco on the side or put it in a bit of french vanilla in it?

would ai hand me a betty crocker book full of recipes? or would they throw me in the kitchen and say COOK, no you burnt your cookies! try again? (with the coffie)

or would i do better learning to cook by just buying my own grill and flipping burgers every night after my 9 to 7?

[The Byre]

If someone has the talent to make it in this business, then I say 'Go for it!' every time.

BUT -

99.9% do not have that talent. They were not the very best at maths, physics and music when at school, they do not understand orchestration and cannot read a circuit diagram. They may be willing, but that alone is just not enough!

In the mean time, there are fantastic careers to be had in fields that most young kids think of as being boring or just to be looked down on. Retail, for example. Many chain stores offer good graduates fantastic packages and really good careers with real promotion and travel early on in their lives.

In the UK, the German chain Aldi offers grads £40k (about $65,000) plus car as trainees!

If you have a technical degree, such as electrical, or chemical engineering, plastics, metallurgy and the like, the World really is your oyster. Add a good MBA and you could be on track for a seven-figure salary. Only very, very few pop-stars achieve that (despite all that fictional nonsense you see on 'Cribs' as some rapper or shredder shows us around a house he has only rented and cars he can only get on lease!)

As I said, I know several very rich brickies and chippies and becoming a brickie or a site-chippie is not exactly difficult, though it is somewhat harder than most people think.

I run a studio (as well as doing other things) and I studied economics (after doing courses in electrical engineering) and I use that knowledge all the time. Knowing how to use ProTools or a desk is not a study course, but something you can pick up on the job - and therefore there is no premium paid for that sort of knowledge.

[s2_Audio]

Wow, all of you ROCK!!! What a great discussion:

1. I have nothing but respect for the schools. The math is simple as defined by the second largest corporation on the planet: 15% of what you know you learn in a formal education / 5% is learned from ongoing education and the other 80% you actually learn by performing the job. The schools offer a view, and sometimes a way, through our door. Someone has to provide the students the 15% they require today to get on the road to obtaining the rest they need for a career in their chosen world, which brings me to ...
2. These tips are for anyone entering any profession. I spent ten years training young firefighters how to survive in Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health environments. The '4 Ups' originally comes from the Fraternal Order of Leather-heads of FDNY.
3. An artist I've enjoyed spending time with used a line I agree with when it comes to anyone or any business taking fiscal advantage of someone who is busting their backside to build a career. Mr. Charlie Daniels said " ...they need a big tall tree and a short piece of rope"

Excellent discussion all of you. Thank you!

Scott Spain

[Psycro]

At Metalworks in Mississauga, Ontario they teach us exactly that before they teach us anything else; they told us straight up within the first week that we can't possibly expect to graduate and be an engineer straight out of school... and to be honest i never really expected it... idk what schools are teaching where you're from, but Metalworks Institute tells us what's really up, lol!

EDIT: come to think of it, though, they haven't taught us how to make coffee; luckily though, i've worked as a server in more than one restaurant so i guess i've got a one-up on my classmates! xD

[lostwars]

Dave Grohl said it best...


FRESH POTS.

[TopherNeverDies]

I don't think the schools are so much to blame. More just the current state of modern times. Let's go back in time before schools. So you wanted to get into recording, what did you have to do? Hang out at studio and do whatever jobs you had to so you could continue hanging out. Slowly learning from the engineer you shadowed. You desired to be in that chair so badly yourself that you would do whatever it takes.

Now let's return to the present. The ability to learn about recording is more accessible thanks to schools and the internet. Because it's easier, I believe people who aren't really dedicated to it aren't weeded out. They can just sign up for school and completely justify the original post. Though a few years after school may discourage those who aren't willing to work hard enough to survive in todays fragile MI.

I'll share with you my experiences to see where I am coming from. I went to school three years ago after I spent some time interning at a local studio. In the classes you could definitely tell who thought it would be cool to engineer and the ones who really wanted to do it. There was the ones who did good at school and the ones that did great and then went home and researched more online. One of my classmates was only 19 at the time and he built a LA-2A. I would say him and I were into it the most. It definitely shows because he has worked really hard and is now currently employed by one of my favorite producers. But school was a great starting ground to learn a lot at once and open ip the path for a lifetime of learning.

About the customer service side of it I think you're dead on. Although I also know some seasoned vets who let things like egos get in the way of their customer service. Anyhow I'm not aware of any school that teaches customer service in any field. You would think they would though right? Goes back to the common sense not being very common rule. It's important to me that clients leave the studio happy and wanting to come back. I try to make sure they have a good time as well as capturing great recordings. The owner always asks me if they had fun first when he's inquiring about the previous nights session. For me, I think the many years of busting my butt in customer service jobs has paid off nicely.

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by AstralPStudios

And this is where I'm different from the rest of you...If someone is interning for me
and they're doing an exceptional job, they'll get paid for their time just like everyone should be. Free labor is wrong.

Pretty much my view as well. Not to mention if said engineer is being an asshole to the intern who also makes the food/drinks....You might get something extra in your cup of coffee.

I remember talking to an engineering during a session. He said "I treat interns like shit because I was treated like shit". I replied "That's pretty stupid and make no sense what so ever". Stupidity at the highest level. He no longer gets business from my end.

If they are doing well, treat them well. If not, move on to the next.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

Pretty much my view as well. Not to mention if said engineer is being an asshole to the intern who also makes the food/drinks....You might get something extra in your cup of coffee.

I remember talking to an engineering during a session. He said "I treat interns like shit because I was treated like shit". I replied "That's pretty stupid and make no sense what so ever". Stupidity at the highest level. He no longer gets business from my end.

If they are doing well, treat them well. If not, move on to the next.

That's completely unprofessional and pathetic on so many levels...what an epic fail.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by AstralPStudios

That's completely unprofessional and pathetic on so many levels...what an epic fail.

I try to treat anyone that works in my place with respect, treat people how you want to be treated. Here we try to keep the vibe up and positive, more conducive to good music making

[Blind]

how i went the fastest from coffee to the mic stand:

be transparent but always be around and listen. think ahead. Always be 5 minutes early. after some time start working in advance and prepare everything for the engineer to just sit down and run the session - but be careful that by then you know a 100% what you're doing -> always follow each of your bosses steps till you could almost be him. always know how to make his favorite coffee, try to sense when he needs one and ask the moment he's about to ask you. slowly but surely make him dependend of you. One day he'll realise how easy you make his life as an engineer and then things start to get fun.

and: never look at your watch... you want to be there whenever you can

to sum it up: be like the air around him... totally transparent and dynamic, always there but an absolute necessity for him to breathe freely

et voila

jonny