Studio Ettiquete

[YM3]

Hi- I am wondering some things about billing and working in a studio.

I recently did a session that went well- good use of time etc. We all left and a few days later I got the mp3s from the session- I was billed a half hour for 4 mp3s sent via email.

My question- is it reasonable to ask the engineer to go ahead and burn the session to disc/mp3 as we are packing up the session? It seems that, since Im paying for the time, that it would be a reasonable request to be able to walk with, if not the original session burned to disc - then at least the edits/overdubs for a couple of 4 minute songs. Am I off on this? I just dont want to spend 35 bucks every time I ask for an mp3 of the session.

Any advice appreciated. Studio time is expensive, Engineers work hard and I dont want to be a pain- however, that seems a little sharky- so for my next session Im going to ask the guy to start on the cds instead of shooting the shit with the band. my money. my time- am I being a hardass?

[Hardtoe]

I would not bill for that.

I think it's nickle and diming and you can be doing other things while you send mp3's - it's not like it really takes a half-hour.

It all depends on your relationship with the studio and how they roll.

Some places charge extra for everything - I personally dont like the kind of atmosphere that this create ("sure you can use the Wurli - $50 please...").

Of course, it really up to the owner.

On the other side, you should not be a "time-cop". Nothing is worse than a client who tries to use a stopwatch to clock a session and notes every second when the engineer appears to be "not doing anything".

Getting comfortable/visiting with the band creates an environment where good takes will happen, which is the goal. Do other people at work always "produce" 100% of the time? I think not. Trust is part of the game - if your engineer is efficient and skilled it probably all balances out.

EDIT - It may be that you are paying for the engineer to bounce the mixes as well, (not just emailing). If this is the case a half hour is fair.

[always in record]

Originally Posted by Hardtoe

EDIT - It may be that you are paying for the engineer to bounce the mixes as well, (not just emailing). If this is the case a half hour is fair.

true

[solo-bration]

^ Agreed.
Some DAW's only bounce mp3's in actual-time, so the bouncing of 4 songs could take 16 minutes alone, nevermind the few minutes in between opening and closing each DAW session/project, then uploading them to email. If the studio rounds to the nearest 1/4 or 1/2 hour, this could be why you were charged for 30min. If you're usually wrapping 30 minutes early, by all means ask for the mp3's to be bounced then - you're paying until you leave the studio.

Personally, it rubs me the wrong way when a band are almost done for the day so they start rounding up money due (at that exact time) even though the task I'm still working on (like editing drums or tuning vocals) + packing up & actually leaving the studio is definitely going to take another 30 minutes.

[doorknocker]

The 'trick' as a studio is to build these things into your rate or the deal you offer the client. It's always better to grant a wish 'Sure, I'll send you the mp3s tomorrow' instead of billing everything.

[YM3]

These are great answers- very helpful- I like my engineer- I dont have a lot of money or time and Ive noticed that he is surprised at how much of a "time cop" slave driver I can be when tracking... I did finish tracking the record in 5 hours- so perhaps I should mellow out.

Looks like, as usual, there is a middle ground. Ill try to be a better client!!

[paul999]

I really hate doing these emails. They truly are time consuming. Doorknocker made a great point that you try to build this type of thing into your pricing. As with anything that comes up that is not part of the contract(and it will) I usually explain that even though the client may think they are asking for nothing emailing of rough tracks or whatever they are asking for is time consuming and outside the realm of the original agreement. After being given the choice of not having what they ask for or making a fair deal for the new request everyone is usually happy.

[henryrobinett]

I always try to build it into the billing. But I won't charge for materials, like the CDs themselves, as used to be done. But time is time. But it also depends. If the bill is high already and the client has spent a lot and I feel slightly bad that he has to write me a big check, then I'll throw it in. Also if the client is just broke dick dog poor. You got to assess this stuff.

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

The 'trick' as a studio is to build these things into your rate or the deal you offer the client. It's always better to grant a wish 'Sure, I'll send you the mp3s tomorrow' instead of billing everything.

I agree - If you feel you are losing too much time, you can always just add a little on somewhere else, like your "mixing" hours. As long as the final product is solid, I feel it is important to make sure that you are not taking advantage of yourself too much. If the client is happy with the result, they will see the value.

Of course Like Henry says, you need to do it on a case by case basis. Some people have the money so they pay the full amount - others have great music, so you give a deal and get paid spiritually.

Those who suck pay double.

[narcoman]

ALL billable.

BUT If the rough mixes had been done while you were there and the exports done at the time then you're being charged the (unfair) "extras" charge. See it all the time- always argue it,

OR if the roughs were not done while you were there but he had to spend half an hour doing it on his own time then the billing is fair. There are still plenty of studios that charge £50 for a CD at the end of the day for review!! Abbey Road for example!

[Musiclab]

Clients should take roughs at the end of session, I usually do it in the last few minutes of the session.

[Eganmedia]

Originally Posted by YM3

These are great answers- very helpful- I like my engineer- I dont have a lot of money or time and Ive noticed that he is surprised at how much of a "time cop" slave driver I can be when tracking... I did finish tracking the record in 5 hours- so perhaps I should mellow out.

Looks like, as usual, there is a middle ground. Ill try to be a better client!!

Clients who watch the clock like hawks can't expect studios to do otherwise. When I work with a client who is a time cop, I bill every second I work. You made sure he worked every minute he was paid for, he made sure to bill for every minute he worked. It's a crummy way to work. I'd much rather be a little relaxed on both sides, but sometimes clients want it otherwise. It sounds like you are the one who set the MO.

It is not inconceivable that firing up the control room and computer, pulling the files from an archive drive, zipping them and mailing them could take a half hour... certainly close enough to round up.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Eganmedia

Clients who watch the clock like hawks can't expect studios to do otherwise. When I work with a client who is a time cop, I bill every second I work. You made sure he worked every minute he was paid for, he made sure to bill for every minute he worked. It's a crummy way to work. I'd much rather be a little relaxed on both sides, but sometimes clients want it otherwise. It sounds like you are the one who set the MO.

It is not inconceivable that firing up the control room and computer, pulling the files from an archive drive, zipping them and mailing them could take a half hour... certainly close enough to round up.

I try to be the bigger person with those sorts of clients, but sometimes I'm with you on this. I just make it procedure to take the last few minutes to make rough, and if it runs over by a few minutes I don't worry about it.

[Eganmedia]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

I try to be the bigger person with those sorts of clients, but sometimes I'm with you on this. I just make it procedure to take the last few minutes to make rough, and if it runs over by a few minutes I don't worry about it.

I always try to send people home with the work we have done during the session. If i am unable to because the clienthas been making sure that I am doing their bidding, I feel completely justified in charging them for any additional time. A client's time is valuable, but not more valuable than my own.

[AstralPStudios]

I give my customers both WAV and MP3
files and will burn them to a CD for no
charge currently, doesn't mean I wouldn't consider an extra 10-15 dollar fee down the road I think that's more fair than 35 for it at least.

[YM3]

Originally Posted by Eganmedia

Clients who watch the clock like hawks can't expect studios to do otherwise. When I work with a client who is a time cop, I bill every second I work. You made sure he worked every minute he was paid for, he made sure to bill for every minute he worked. It's a crummy way to work. I'd much rather be a little relaxed on both sides, but sometimes clients want it otherwise. It sounds like you are the one who set the MO.

It is not inconceivable that firing up the control room and computer, pulling the files from an archive drive, zipping them and mailing them could take a half hour... certainly close enough to round up.

So, out of curiousity- do you think ordering a pizza in the middle of a five hour session for 7 people is something that should be billed for? I dont/didnt. I also dont think the entire band has to come in the control room to hear every take they do every time? I didnt. I hired my guys to come in and play- if Im paying 70 and hour and 250 a musician I think its reasonable to ask people to eat later, and wait for the CD- seems to me the engineer ought to be ok with not having everyone take a big meal break rather than get paid to watch a bunch of musicians eat. if that is being a time cop thats fine with me.

[henryrobinett]

Eating is on the clock - hey it's my time, right? You can't expect people to starve. Everyone can take a lunch break off the clock I suppose. You can be organized enough to either bring snack food or for people to bring their own sandwiches, so they can eat in between takes or when you're listening back. It's also important for folks to hear what they did, even if it's your session and not theirs. It's their performance and they might want to give the best performance and be able to hear back what they were trying to do to change up. Sometimes they have a better idea than the producer, arranger might have, if they're good. YOu can't be that cheap all the time!

[Poe]

just be real with the engineer on how you feel...point blank

[DannyMac]

I give 45 mins off the clock for lunch. And it starts when I say!

Low blood sugar is my brain enemy and working for 12-14 hours at MY facility I believe it is my right to dictate this.
I'm being paid to do my job to the best of my abilities and I'll do whatever it takes to do that

[kiopo]

If it's something like emailing MP3s, it is something you factor in and to be honest it's just good service. In a dying industry you do have to value your clients and, I think, go the extra mile without appearing a pushover.

Bouncing is a different story and I would personally charge as mixing time if done on a separate day, but always do at the end of the charged day. Sessions do normally go over but experience helps you manage the day better and be more strict with when you start mixing / bouncing, when bands finish, etc.

[Eganmedia]

Originally Posted by YM3

So, out of curiousity- do you think ordering a pizza in the middle of a five hour session for 7 people is something that should be billed for? I dont/didnt. I also dont think the entire band has to come in the control room to hear every take they do every time? I didnt. I hired my guys to come in and play- if Im paying 70 and hour and 250 a musician I think its reasonable to ask people to eat later, and wait for the CD- seems to me the engineer ought to be ok with not having everyone take a big meal break rather than get paid to watch a bunch of musicians eat. if that is being a time cop thats fine with me.

I'm assuming you booked a session at a studio billed by the hour, and musicians billed by the session. If you're the producer, the time you booked for each is your time. Spend it as you see fit. If a session player demands overtime pay because the session went longer than he expected, that should be a conversation between you and the musician. If you booked five hours of studio time, you should be prepared to pay for the five hours booked. If you go a half hour over, that's between you and the studio owner. Don't assume that his clock stops when the musicians stop. Again, the studio and musicians you hire each have an arrangement with you, not with the each other.

FWIW, my experience has always been that long sessions require breaks... And that well fed musicians are happy and productive musicians. Same goes for crew. If I'm producing, I will always build time into the budget for people to work at a pace that produces the best finished product.

When someone else books my studio, they most often do at an hourly rate, and as I mentioned above, I bill them for the time booked. If we finish early and I can book the held time with another client, I don't charge twice. And as I also mentioned, a reasonable, flexible client will get the same behavior from me. A time cop client sets the rules. I'll follow that lead.

[crosscutred]

If you book my studio you pay for the time you're there, whether you're playing, listening, eating or using the toilet.

I find I usually eat while doing some editing or working on a sound with one member of the band and the time cop attitude doesn't speed things up....it just means you get charged when you go over time (and make extra requests for mp3s later) rather than everything being easy going.