How to avoid a client you don't want

[Subversounds]

In any business there are clients that you don't like... they can be cheap, they can complain a lot about equipments, sounds, "in that studio was like this" "and like that", "it is too expensive", "the snare is included"... well, i've been into that for almost 5 years.... and still figuring how to avoid these pain in the arse clients...

any secrets?!?!



- i usually try to say the schedule is full (studio is taken during the time they want)... but it is hard, sometimes they still come back and ask for another hour...

How to avoid PITA clients?

I want the secret!

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Subversounds

In any business there are clients that you don't like... they can be cheap, they can complain a lot about equipments, sounds, "in that studio was like this" "and like that", "it is too expensive", "the snare is included"... well, i've been into that for almost 5 years.... and still figuring how to avoid these pain in the arse clients...

any secrets?!?!



- i usually try to say the schedule is full (studio is taken during the time they want)... but it is hard, sometimes they still come back and ask for another hour...

How to avoid PITA clients?

I want the secret!

Actually, the "full" excuse is what a lot of us use.
"Call me back in six months and we'll see where my schedule is at then"

[KRStudio]

I charge double for whining!

[musictech]

Might not work in your situation, but I've made it clear on my web site that my business is mostly private these days, and that I only take on a select number of clients each year, and only if I think the project is right for me and I can do a good job with it. I simply tell them up front that I make a much better return investment on my time working on my own productions than I do from any hourly rate I could charge. Of course, this is all true for me, so it's not a lie or an excuse.

It's been nice having the ability to say "no" over the last several years since my own productions do more than well enough to make a good profit and keep me busy. It's also quite amazing to me how just saying all of that up front has seemed to attract much more professional clients, and I don't get contacted nearly as much but the type of clients you are talking about.

If you're not in the same type of situation and need clients to pay the bills, just make sure you put a blurb on your web site, or tell people up front that you reserve the right to say "no" to any project that you don't feel is right for you, or that you won't fully enjoy doing. Most people will respect that.

I always ask people to send me rough demos of their projects before I decide if I will work with them, or at least links to past projects. I will often have a short meeting with them after that to discuss the project in more detail, before I make my final decision as to whether or not I will work with them.

[narcoman]

"official rates" - thats what the troublesome get!!

No discounts! If they pay - fine they can be annoying!

[davedarling]

small pox outbreak.

[The Byre]

If the 'full' thing does not work, then we go to putting up the prices. If that still fails to deter them, I have actually on one occasion, told a client to F-off and never come back. That worked!

[api2500]

Have a really low door with a head shaped opening stopping over inflated egos entering?

[Adlen]

Originally Posted by api2500

Have a really low door with a head shaped opening stopping over inflated egos entering?

I use the full one, or sometimes...

"hmm, you have an interesting style of music. I'm not sure I could do a great job with you. I'd recommend [INSERT NAME OF COMPETITOR I DON'T LIKE HERE]."

[therealbigd]

"Yes you're welcome to come again put could you use the shower because you were f@*%ng humming last time you came in, also could you change your clothes some time during the week before. Sorry I don't mean to be rude but I had to close the studio for 2 weeks until the Home Office Chemical Warfare Department declared the studio safe for human lifeforms and I just can't afford to lose that amount of business".

See if they still want to come.

[api2500]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

"Yes you're welcome to come again put could you use the shower because you were f@*%ng humming last time you came in, also could you change your clothes some time during the week before. Sorry I don't mean to be rude but I had to close the studio for 2 weeks until the Home Office Chemical Warfare Department declared the studio safe for human lifeforms and I just can't afford to lose that amount of business".

See if they still want to come.

I'd have that on a poster at the door. I've found bassists the worst.

[Subversounds]

Thanks for the advice.

I liked the 'gentle-hostile poster' idea...

The problem is with rehearsals than with recording.

Everything seems wrong with my studio with this particular client, but still he returns twice a month. Usually more annoying in the next time.

A real ******.

[Kenny Gioia]

I base my prices based on the customer.

Especially repeat ones.

[therealbigd]

I wasn't being serious about smelly clients.

I was just saying that if you're nasty to them on the phone they probably won't come visit. But you have to be nasty in the way that isn't too personal.

Basing prices on the customer also works. I don't know why but when I record "yeah diss iz well sick bruv!" rappers that involve a backing track and 1 microphone, I'm still forced to charge more than mic'ing up drum kits or full orchestras. I don't know why, it's a mystery.

[Adlen]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

Basing prices on the customer also works. I don't know why but when I record "yeah diss iz well sick bruv!" rappers that involve a backing track and 1 microphone, I'm still forced to charge more than mic'ing up drum kits or full orchestras. I don't know why, it's a mystery.

I have prices on my website, it says they're a guide but people don't like it when you stray too far from that guide. For arseholes, I'll probably stray. When I actually NEED to put the price up, people get pissed

[api2500]

I have mentioned before my general demographic of clients. But I don't make my bread and butter from this. I'm at uni so I'll take any gig.

[jordanvoth]

I do a combo of all of them. Tell them all you have is this weekend and it will cost an arm and a leg. Usually my only reasons for turning down work are a) I can't do a good job on the style (rap, hiphop) or b) the artist has no talent and in that case I send them away.

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by Subversounds

In any business there are clients that you don't like... they can be cheap, they can complain a lot about equipments, sounds, "in that studio was like this" "and like that", "it is too expensive", "the snare is included"... well, i've been into that for almost 5 years.... and still figuring how to avoid these pain in the arse clients...

any secrets?!?!

- i usually try to say the schedule is full (studio is taken during the time they want)... but it is hard, sometimes they still come back and ask for another hour...

How to avoid PITA clients?

I want the secret!

A client I am currently working with was bothered by my price until I showed him where the cost really came from (mainly automation) and we
talked it over and I'll work a different way for him next time to save him
some cash. You don't necessarily have to get rid of them (I wanted to at
first also) but there is always a proper way to handle something.

After i showed him the session he kinda understood more but you have to learn to communicate with clients without getting too terribly defensive. Learn to work with people, after all the goal is to have repeat clients!

Communication skills should be of utmost priority to anyone running any business, unfortunately that is rare nowadays.

[Riddler]

You could try emailing your client this before he/she/they arrive!

Etiquette for the Studio Visitor?

by Larry Crane, with additions by Garrett Haines, Andy Hong and Steve Silverstein

We always come back to discussing all these human factors when talking about recording music. “Keep the vibe positive.” “Make the client comfortable.” “Discuss goals and money before a project starts.” “Take breaks when needed.” There are a million suggestions that will help keep a recording session, whether in a pro studio or someone’s living room, intact and moving forward. We probably all carry a list of our own preferred behavior around in our heads (subconsciously?), for ourselves and those around us. Sometimes we even write them down and discuss them - I’ve seen endless threads on the Tape Op message board debating such issues. But there’s one human interaction during recording that is rarely discussed. I’ve been in and out of studios for 25 years, and as a visitor, band member, guest player, engineer, producer and studio owner, I have seen many a session derailed by the appearance of a studio visitor or guest. One colleague of mine mentioned that he really never got any work done when visitors were present, so “you should make the visitor time about them, not the work.” Maybe these etiquette tips will help solve this problem?

Rules for Recording Session and Studio Visitors

1. This may seem obvious, but make sure you were invited.
2. Turn off that cell phone. Really. Now. Completely turn of that iPhone!
3. Remove that watch that beeps every hour and leave it in the car.
4. Practice keeping your mouth shut before coming in the door.
5. Talk quietly, please! No, really. Now.
6. Picking the engineer’s brain for home recording tips is a bad idea.
7. Singing along doesn’t help anyone.
8. Playing that guitar that is “just laying there” in the control room sucks even more.
9. You don’t become “instant junior producer” just because you’re on the couch.
10. Please bathe at some point less than 24 hours before arriving. Deodorant always helps.
11. No one needs you talking about your own music, band or sessions without prompting.
12. Children, uh, well:
12a. If it’s a musician’s kid it might be positive for them to see each other.
12b. If the child is unrelated, consider that this could be disruptive.
12c. Noisy toddlers don’t work out too well… ever. Okay? Sorry.
13. Want to spend quality time? Find out when meal breaks are and hook up with everyone:
13a. But there might not be a meal break.
13b. Meal breaks might not line up with your schedule.
13c. Remember that “just a minute” means one hour in recording speak.
13d. Seriously consider that you may need to sit and wait somewhere for this to work.
14. Bringing in food or drink will make you very popular:
14a. Homemade baked goods are especially good.
14b. Bringing a six-pack of beer might be nice - a bottle of whiskey could be bad.
14c. Snacking foods are tops - nuts, chips, fruit, small candies, sodas and such.
15. Want to be a hero? Show up at load in or load out.
16. Be aware of whose seat you’ve just taken.
17. Doors that were shut when you found them need to be shut after you use them.
18. Drugs… just make sure you’re not doing something really stupid - for many reasons.
19. Automatically retreat to the lounge or such if someone is doing vocal takes.
20. Never ask the engineer, “Do you know what all those knobs do?” They’ve heard it before.
21. Eating the engineer or producer’s food will make you very unpopular.
22. Finish off the coffee? Make a new pot. (Don’t run the grinder during a take.)
23. Do you have a volatile relationship with one of the musicians? Meet them later.
24. Don’t smoke inside the building - even if others are doing so, you didn’t pay for this privilege.
25. Keep liquids away from anything electrical.
26. Don’t step on those cables you see on the floor. Really.
27. Bring a book, magazine, crossword puzzle or something to do.
28. Set a time to visit the session and be prompt.
29. Never enter the tracking rooms without the engineer's permission.
30. Do not speak/sing/yell into any mics. You could damage the mic, speakers or ears.
31. Do not move a knob or flip a switch on any gear while asking, "What's this do?"
32. Remember that everyone in the room could be really stressed, and be sensitive to this.

Hopefully these rules might make life easier for every artist, engineer and visitor. Pass them around!

Disclaimer: While some of the above is serious, there is a tongue-in-cheek humor going on. If you cannot figure this out please try harder. This disclaimer releases us from having to print confused emails in the Letters section. Thanks to Mike Caffrey for THE point.

[1st up]

Originally Posted by Riddler

You could try emailing your client this before he/she/they arrive!

Etiquette for the Studio Visitor?

by Larry Crane, with additions by Garrett Haines, Andy Hong and Steve Silverstein

We always come back to discussing all these human factors when talking about recording music. “Keep the vibe positive.” “Make the client comfortable.” “Discuss goals and money before a project starts.” “Take breaks when needed.” There are a million suggestions that will help keep a recording session, whether in a pro studio or someone’s living room, intact and moving forward. We probably all carry a list of our own preferred behavior around in our heads (subconsciously?), for ourselves and those around us. Sometimes we even write them down and discuss them - I’ve seen endless threads on the Tape Op message board debating such issues. But there’s one human interaction during recording that is rarely discussed. I’ve been in and out of studios for 25 years, and as a visitor, band member, guest player, engineer, producer and studio owner, I have seen many a session derailed by the appearance of a studio visitor or guest. One colleague of mine mentioned that he really never got any work done when visitors were present, so “you should make the visitor time about them, not the work.” Maybe these etiquette tips will help solve this problem?

Rules for Recording Session and Studio Visitors

1. This may seem obvious, but make sure you were invited.
2. Turn off that cell phone. Really. Now. Completely turn of that iPhone!
3. Remove that watch that beeps every hour and leave it in the car.
4. Practice keeping your mouth shut before coming in the door.
5. Talk quietly, please! No, really. Now.
6. Picking the engineer’s brain for home recording tips is a bad idea.
7. Singing along doesn’t help anyone.
8. Playing that guitar that is “just laying there” in the control room sucks even more.
9. You don’t become “instant junior producer” just because you’re on the couch.
10. Please bathe at some point less than 24 hours before arriving. Deodorant always helps.
11. No one needs you talking about your own music, band or sessions without prompting.
12. Children, uh, well:
12a. If it’s a musician’s kid it might be positive for them to see each other.
12b. If the child is unrelated, consider that this could be disruptive.
12c. Noisy toddlers don’t work out too well… ever. Okay? Sorry.
13. Want to spend quality time? Find out when meal breaks are and hook up with everyone:
13a. But there might not be a meal break.
13b. Meal breaks might not line up with your schedule.
13c. Remember that “just a minute” means one hour in recording speak.
13d. Seriously consider that you may need to sit and wait somewhere for this to work.
14. Bringing in food or drink will make you very popular:
14a. Homemade baked goods are especially good.
14b. Bringing a six-pack of beer might be nice - a bottle of whiskey could be bad.
14c. Snacking foods are tops - nuts, chips, fruit, small candies, sodas and such.
15. Want to be a hero? Show up at load in or load out.
16. Be aware of whose seat you’ve just taken.
17. Doors that were shut when you found them need to be shut after you use them.
18. Drugs… just make sure you’re not doing something really stupid - for many reasons.
19. Automatically retreat to the lounge or such if someone is doing vocal takes.
20. Never ask the engineer, “Do you know what all those knobs do?” They’ve heard it before.
21. Eating the engineer or producer’s food will make you very unpopular.
22. Finish off the coffee? Make a new pot. (Don’t run the grinder during a take.)
23. Do you have a volatile relationship with one of the musicians? Meet them later.
24. Don’t smoke inside the building - even if others are doing so, you didn’t pay for this privilege.
25. Keep liquids away from anything electrical.
26. Don’t step on those cables you see on the floor. Really.
27. Bring a book, magazine, crossword puzzle or something to do.
28. Set a time to visit the session and be prompt.
29. Never enter the tracking rooms without the engineer's permission.
30. Do not speak/sing/yell into any mics. You could damage the mic, speakers or ears.
31. Do not move a knob or flip a switch on any gear while asking, "What's this do?"
32. Remember that everyone in the room could be really stressed, and be sensitive to this.

Hopefully these rules might make life easier for every artist, engineer and visitor. Pass them around!

Disclaimer: While some of the above is serious, there is a tongue-in-cheek humor going on. If you cannot figure this out please try harder. This disclaimer releases us from having to print confused emails in the Letters section. Thanks to Mike Caffrey for THE point.

probably going to copy this and post up in the studio

[88fingerz]

Originally Posted by Riddler

You could try emailing your client this before he/she/they arrive!

Etiquette for the Studio Visitor?

by Larry Crane, with additions by Garrett Haines, Andy Hong and Steve Silverstein

We always come back to discussing all these human factors when talking about recording music. “Keep the vibe positive.” “Make the client comfortable.” “Discuss goals and money before a project starts.” “Take breaks when needed.” There are a million suggestions that will help keep a recording session, whether in a pro studio or someone’s living room, intact and moving forward. We probably all carry a list of our own preferred behavior around in our heads (subconsciously?), for ourselves and those around us. Sometimes we even write them down and discuss them - I’ve seen endless threads on the Tape Op message board debating such issues. But there’s one human interaction during recording that is rarely discussed. I’ve been in and out of studios for 25 years, and as a visitor, band member, guest player, engineer, producer and studio owner, I have seen many a session derailed by the appearance of a studio visitor or guest. One colleague of mine mentioned that he really never got any work done when visitors were present, so “you should make the visitor time about them, not the work.” Maybe these etiquette tips will help solve this problem?

Rules for Recording Session and Studio Visitors

1. This may seem obvious, but make sure you were invited.
2. Turn off that cell phone. Really. Now. Completely turn of that iPhone!
3. Remove that watch that beeps every hour and leave it in the car.
4. Practice keeping your mouth shut before coming in the door.
5. Talk quietly, please! No, really. Now.
6. Picking the engineer’s brain for home recording tips is a bad idea.
7. Singing along doesn’t help anyone.
8. Playing that guitar that is “just laying there” in the control room sucks even more.
9. You don’t become “instant junior producer” just because you’re on the couch.
10. Please bathe at some point less than 24 hours before arriving. Deodorant always helps.
11. No one needs you talking about your own music, band or sessions without prompting.
12. Children, uh, well:
12a. If it’s a musician’s kid it might be positive for them to see each other.
12b. If the child is unrelated, consider that this could be disruptive.
12c. Noisy toddlers don’t work out too well… ever. Okay? Sorry.
13. Want to spend quality time? Find out when meal breaks are and hook up with everyone:
13a. But there might not be a meal break.
13b. Meal breaks might not line up with your schedule.
13c. Remember that “just a minute” means one hour in recording speak.
13d. Seriously consider that you may need to sit and wait somewhere for this to work.
14. Bringing in food or drink will make you very popular:
14a. Homemade baked goods are especially good.
14b. Bringing a six-pack of beer might be nice - a bottle of whiskey could be bad.
14c. Snacking foods are tops - nuts, chips, fruit, small candies, sodas and such.
15. Want to be a hero? Show up at load in or load out.
16. Be aware of whose seat you’ve just taken.
17. Doors that were shut when you found them need to be shut after you use them.
18. Drugs… just make sure you’re not doing something really stupid - for many reasons.
19. Automatically retreat to the lounge or such if someone is doing vocal takes.
20. Never ask the engineer, “Do you know what all those knobs do?” They’ve heard it before.
21. Eating the engineer or producer’s food will make you very unpopular.
22. Finish off the coffee? Make a new pot. (Don’t run the grinder during a take.)
23. Do you have a volatile relationship with one of the musicians? Meet them later.
24. Don’t smoke inside the building - even if others are doing so, you didn’t pay for this privilege.
25. Keep liquids away from anything electrical.
26. Don’t step on those cables you see on the floor. Really.
27. Bring a book, magazine, crossword puzzle or something to do.
28. Set a time to visit the session and be prompt.
29. Never enter the tracking rooms without the engineer's permission.
30. Do not speak/sing/yell into any mics. You could damage the mic, speakers or ears.
31. Do not move a knob or flip a switch on any gear while asking, "What's this do?"
32. Remember that everyone in the room could be really stressed, and be sensitive to this.

Hopefully these rules might make life easier for every artist, engineer and visitor. Pass them around!

Disclaimer: While some of the above is serious, there is a tongue-in-cheek humor going on. If you cannot figure this out please try harder. This disclaimer releases us from having to print confused emails in the Letters section. Thanks to Mike Caffrey for THE point.

Seems like a real warm cozy place to spend my hard-earned bread

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by 88fingerz

Seems like a real warm cozy place to spend my hard-earned bread

Hey! Who asked you!?!?!

[taturana]

Originally Posted by 88fingerz

Seems like a real warm cozy place to spend my hard-earned bread

if you want a warm cozy place, go to a motel... he's talking about a recording studio...

[PauloCrushLopez]

increases prices in 500%

[DannyMac]

I think to just be honest and tell them that you are sure they are great guys, but you personally feel that there are too many artistic differences between the both of you to have a fruitful product at the end....

[bobsandifer]

I usually just say Im booked then refer them to Tree or Patchwerk Those guys seem to have the ability to put a client in the corner if they act up. It might be that owner/operator places are a bit too close to the talent and the large commercial studios have staff in place for the troublesome few.

[SoundHouse]

Originally Posted by AstralPStudios

A client I am currently working with was bothered by my price until I showed him where the cost really came from (mainly automation) and we
talked it over and I'll work a different way for him next time to save him
some cash. You don't necessarily have to get rid of them (I wanted to at
first also) but there is always a proper way to handle something.

After i showed him the session he kinda understood more but you have to learn to communicate with clients without getting too terribly defensive. Learn to work with people, after all the goal is to have repeat clients!

Communication skills should be of utmost priority to anyone running any business, unfortunately that is rare nowadays.

Couldn't agree more. Communicating has saved both sides from embarrassment. I had a client that no matter how many vocal takes she did, she was too picky. Should have said something sooner instead of waiting 4 hours.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by Subversounds

In any business there are clients that you don't like... they can be cheap, they can complain a lot about equipments, sounds, "in that studio was like this" "and like that", "it is too expensive", "the snare is included"... well, i've been into that for almost 5 years.... and still figuring how to avoid these pain in the arse clients...

any secrets?!?!



- i usually try to say the schedule is full (studio is taken during the time they want)... but it is hard, sometimes they still come back and ask for another hour...

How to avoid PITA clients?

I want the secret!

just say no

triple your rates
make them pay in advance

call in sick and send some incompetent person to deal with them

[bobsandifer]

I refused to book studio time for Joe Riz (the Too Short Dude) and he threatened to get on MARTA and come beat my ass. I think we are ok now. I still get a bit nervous when a bus pulls up though

I just use the Booked excuse. If they ask for the next open slot I just tell them they have to pay in advance for the session to reserve it. That stops everything. WAIT !.........did you hear a bus?

[D.Don]

Originally Posted by Subversounds

In any business there are clients that you don't like... they can be cheap, they can complain a lot about equipments, sounds, "in that studio was like this" "and like that", "it is too expensive", "the snare is included"... well, i've been into that for almost 5 years.... and still figuring how to avoid these pain in the arse clients...

any secrets?!?!



- i usually try to say the schedule is full (studio is taken during the time they want)... but it is hard, sometimes they still come back and ask for another hour...

How to avoid PITA clients?

I want the secret!

Raise your rates dramatically... Set schedules at ridiculous hours...

"Yes I am busy as h-ll but if you pay (rate*2,5 or worse), I could maybe put you up for an early morning sessions starting 06.30"...

Worst case you'll get your best paid morning in a long time....


:D