Planning on starting a studio... Advice?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by chrisclick

1) Are you actually, genuinely good at recording & mixing?
Well, I'd like to think I am... Probably a question that can only be answered with examples. I will get on that asap.

With all due respect, and having marked the A-Level recording paper for the past 6 years, I can honestly say over that time there's been about 3 recordings I've heard (in close to a thousand submissions maybe?) that could have been considered a "professional" recording. Many had their good points, and showed potential, but none of those submitting their work was ready to call themselves an "engineer".

Likewise, neither are most university grads - I certainly didn't know some very basic things, and I graduated top of my year from a well-known uni (ARPS accredited).

Of course, there's lots of guys running and working in demo-style studios that don't make fantastic style recordings either (and consequently don't charge the earth) but that's not a great target to aim for.

I'm quite a big believer that no-one should start a business (any business) if you've not worked for another example of that business in some capacity. You wouldn't run or start up a bar if you'd never worked behind one. You wouldn't open a retail store having never worked in a shop. I've seen studios opened by people with no prior experience and they close pretty quickly. I'm not sure I've got enough experience to run my own commercial studio, and I've been working in them a fair few years.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

With all due respect, and having marked the A-Level recording paper for the past 6 years, I can honestly say over that time there's been about 3 recordings I've heard (in close to a thousand submissions maybe?) that could have been considered a "professional" recording. Many had their good points, and showed potential, but none of those submitting their work was ready to call themselves an "engineer".

Likewise, neither are most university grads - I certainly didn't know some very basic things, and I graduated top of my year from a well-known uni (ARPS accredited).

Of course, there's lots of guys running and working in demo-style studios that don't make fantastic style recordings either (and consequently don't charge the earth) but that's not a great target to aim for.

I'm quite a big believer that no-one should start a business (any business) if you've not worked for another example of that business in some capacity. You wouldn't run or start up a bar if you'd never worked behind one. You wouldn't open a retail store having never worked in a shop. I've seen studios opened by people with no prior experience and they close pretty quickly. I'm not sure I've got enough experience to run my own commercial studio, and I've been working in them a fair few years.

Without going down the University vs Experience train too much, the main reasoning behind this, I think, P_M is that, basically, coursework has no requirement for you to really understand the day to day operation of a studio.

I did A-Level Music Tech and will happily say 2 things:
1) Most of what we learnt was actually incorrect!
2) The work I handed in, and got an A in everytime, sounded RUBBISH. I listen to it now and can't believe it got the highest grade possible.

But the biggest problem is that you have to hand in 4 pieces of recording for A-Level submission. And, just, I would not start my own business in lorry freight, having driven a lorry 4 times. And it's exactly the same principle.

For my work, I did 1 ambient recording, 1 MIDI-only, 1 MIDI and audio, and 1 free for all. Then some written modules. But at no point in my A-Level did I have to submit work in:
•*Fault finding in the studio
•*Soldering stuff
•*Mixing to a reference
•*Dealing with difficult people
•*De-crashing Pro Tools or a mac
• etc etc etc

These are the every day skills that you need to know, and the schools just don't teach it. As P_M said, I would bet that your recording and mixing isn't half as good as you think it is. I would say I'd done 30 proper recordings and mixes before I started getting good at doing them - certainly good enough to start charging people.

In your position, I'd be thinking less about a commercial facility, and more about getting a mobile system, and recording people in their practice rooms / bedrooms / gigs, and working for free or travel expenses. Why free? You've got no liability to provide anything. Working free is better than working cheap. Because if they've paid nothing, the worst you can do is provide nothing, and there's still no court case.

Once you've done 30, 40, 50 mixes; you'll look at what you're churning out at the moment and think 'God I'm glad I hadn't set up a business now'. Remember, you get a bad name once, you'll have it forever. Even if Behringer started churning out Neve-quality equipment, they'll always be known as the rubbish gear company. You don't want to be the rubbish mix guy so get it right first time.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

Without going down the University vs Experience train too much, the main reasoning behind this, I think, P_M is that, basically, coursework has no requirement for you to really understand the day to day operation of a studio.

I did A-Level Music Tech and will happily say 2 things:
1) Most of what we learnt was actually incorrect!
2) The work I handed in, and got an A in everytime, sounded RUBBISH. I listen to it now and can't believe it got the highest grade possible.

But the biggest problem is that you have to hand in 4 pieces of recording for A-Level submission. And, just, I would not start my own business in lorry freight, having driven a lorry 4 times. And it's exactly the same principle.

For my work, I did 1 ambient recording, 1 MIDI-only, 1 MIDI and audio, and 1 free for all. Then some written modules. But at no point in my A-Level did I have to submit work in:
•*Fault finding in the studio
•*Soldering stuff
•*Mixing to a reference
•*Dealing with difficult people
•*De-crashing Pro Tools or a mac
• etc etc etc

These are the every day skills that you need to know, and the schools just don't teach it. As P_M said, I would bet that your recording and mixing isn't half as good as you think it is. I would say I'd done 30 proper recordings and mixes before I started getting good at doing them - certainly good enough to start charging people.

In your position, I'd be thinking less about a commercial facility, and more about getting a mobile system, and recording people in their practice rooms / bedrooms / gigs, and working for free or travel expenses. Why free? You've got no liability to provide anything. Working free is better than working cheap. Because if they've paid nothing, the worst you can do is provide nothing, and there's still no court case.

Once you've done 30, 40, 50 mixes; you'll look at what you're churning out at the moment and think 'God I'm glad I hadn't set up a business now'. Remember, you get a bad name once, you'll have it forever. Even if Behringer started churning out Neve-quality equipment, they'll always be known as the rubbish gear company. You don't want to be the rubbish mix guy so get it right first time.

Brief tangent in this thread;

Music tech teaching of any kind, more than "traditional subjects", really depends on the teacher - and most don't have a clue, having never actually done the job. That said, the work marked as coursework is standardised - ie your teacher isn't marking it, and if you don't do well you won't get a good mark. Subject to realism of course, no one is expecting a professional recording from an A-level candidate. I feel the same when I listen to my uni recordings....

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Brief tangent in this thread;

Music tech teaching of any kind, more than "traditional subjects", really depends on the teacher - and most don't have a clue, having never actually done the job. That said, the work marked as coursework is standardised - ie your teacher isn't marking it, and if you don't do well you won't get a good mark. Subject to realism of course, no one is expecting a professional recording from an A-level candidate. I feel the same when I listen to my uni recordings....

True, but the problem is that I can safely say now that the work I did for A-Level was pretty crap my the standard of what I do now. Now, that's all well and good providing that A-Level students can understand that it's only an introduction to music technology, but the reality is those getting straight A's think they're great at it. And that ends up with things like this OP thinking they're ready to start a studio when all they've really had is a 2 year introduction to the world of music technology.

The courses need to make clear what the qualifications actually mean and they're true value, it's not the students' faults they're being mislead somewhat. My teacher made it out that I could go work in a fully blown studio on the back of 2 years mixing on a Tascam 24-track thingy and a Zoom multi-fx. I never even saw a parametric EQ until I hit the real world.

[RARStudios]

I read over the plan, not many of the responses though. In my opinion, this seems 50 times better than other dumbasses who post on this site asking for advice then arrogantly talk themselves up as the next best thing since The Beatles.

It is great that you quite possibly have found a place in the market for your studio. Are the other 2-3 studios the same "high" "mid" or "low" that you are? If so, it might be better to pick one of the tiers that more of the studios are not. That sounded weird, so in other words, are the other 3 studios high high and mid? or high mid mid or low low low etc. Find out where you need to place in order to reach maximum profit in your area and reach the most clientel. Have you asked around and seen how many bands actually are looking to record? Although the market may seem booming, it could be, most of the bands do not record and strictly just play out. Have you checked on those studios rates compared to their equipment? Do you also add input on mixes, production, etc or strictly press record and mix? These are things you are going to want to think through.

It seems like a great idea though, I am a young guy as well and have my own hobby studio in my house in which I do production, mixing, and recording for local bands. I started 4-5 months ago or so. Its a tough thing owning your own company though, remember that. It pays off though if done right.

Oh and one last thing, have you calculated out a business plan with costs and all the other nonsense?

Note: I did not go to school for music, AE, or anything of that nature, I am just a self-taught musician who started his own home-based studio recently. I may be wrong in some of the things I mentioned above, so correct me if I am wrong.

Good luck to you!
Evan

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

True, but the problem is that I can safely say now that the work I did for A-Level was pretty crap my the standard of what I do now. Now, that's all well and good providing that A-Level students can understand that it's only an introduction to music technology, but the reality is those getting straight A's think they're great at it. And that ends up with things like this OP thinking they're ready to start a studio when all they've really had is a 2 year introduction to the world of music technology.

The courses need to make clear what the qualifications actually mean and they're true value, it's not the students' faults they're being mislead somewhat. My teacher made it out that I could go work in a fully blown studio on the back of 2 years mixing on a Tascam 24-track thingy and a Zoom multi-fx. I never even saw a parametric EQ until I hit the real world.

Can't argue with that.

But I don't really think that teachers at A-level give you that impression (or at least those I know don't...but those I know all mark the exam as well!) any more than those teaching biology tell you you're ready to be a doctor. Now university (or dedicated "audio schools") can be a different matter.

Originally Posted by RARStudios

I read over the plan, not many of the responses though. In my opinion, this seems 50 times better than other dumbasses who post on this site asking for advice then arrogantly talk themselves up as the next best thing since The Beatles.

Possibly true, yes. The OP seems to be considering all opinions at least!

Originally Posted by RARStudios

It is great that you quite possibly have found a place in the market for your studio. Are the other 2-3 studios the same "high" "mid" or "low" that you are? If so, it might be better to pick one of the tiers that more of the studios are not. That sounded weird, so in other words, are the other 3 studios high high and mid? or high mid mid or low low low etc. Find out where you need to place in order to reach maximum profit in your area and reach the most clientel. Have you asked around and seen how many bands actually are looking to record? Although the market may seem booming, it could be, most of the bands do not record and strictly just play out. Have you checked on those studios rates compared to their equipment? Do you also add input on mixes, production, etc or strictly press record and mix? These are things you are going to want to think through.

The fact remains that if you've never worked in a studio before, then you're ill equipped to run one.

Originally Posted by RARStudios

It seems like a great idea though, I am a young guy as well and have my own hobby studio in my house in which I do production, mixing, and recording for local bands. I started 4-5 months ago or so. Its a tough thing owning your own company though, remember that. It pays off though if done right.

Oh and one last thing, have you calculated out a business plan with costs and all the other nonsense?

Note: I did not go to school for music, AE, or anything of that nature, I am just a self-taught musician who started his own home-based studio recently. I may be wrong in some of the things I mentioned above, so correct me if I am wrong.

Good luck to you!
Evan

You're not wrong as such, but it is a little bit like the blind leading the blind - you're in exactly the same situation, so can't really see the pitfalls in the same way. At least in your case you're working from the ground up. Get into a few pro studios as a freelancer, see how they're run, what does or doesn't work, and in a few years time you might be in a position to run your own studio - whether or not you'd then want to is another issue.

Personally, I never want to run a studio as such. I have a share in a production room, which lets me personally be more productive (ie it makes me money) but I don't run it commercially - it's strictly there to make me a more attractive proposition for hire. It's cheap enough that I don't have to actively work or advertise to fill it, but good enough that I can do overdubs as good there as if I were in a commercial room.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Can't argue with that.

But I don't really think that teachers at A-level give you that impression (or at least those I know don't...but those I know all mark the exam as well!) any more than those teaching biology tell you you're ready to be a doctor. Now university (or dedicated "audio schools") can be a different matter.

Absolutely, the universities are far more a culprit of it than the schools and colleges. The difference between Music Tech and Biology though, is that Biology is academic and really, Music Tech is vocational. If, instead, they taught the history of music technology, the musical, technological and cultural changes that have led to the development of music technology, current affairs in the music technology world, etc etc - IE a study OF music technology, rather than training IN music technology, people would not leave thinking they are qualified to DO the job. With Biology being about studying the subject rather than it's application, people do not leave feeling ready to be doctors. But their courseworks do not involve doing projects that may be undertaken by a doctor. Music Tech courseworks do involve doing projects that may be undertaken by a sound engineer. This is the difference IMO.

Universities are pretty bad for it though, a degree is really the highest qualification you can get before going down the "I really really like education" route. Audio Schools and all that included. It's just a fact - that Audio Engineering is no different to Motor Vehicle Engineering or Aviation Engineering. Yes, you can do a degree in it, but a grad is not in a position to go and buy a load of tools and start building planes or cars. And I don't think any would dream of doing so either. I am still unsure as to why Music Tech grads feel exempt from this!

As said, off topic - but I see this kinda thing pop on GS ("I've just finished audio school, I've got myself 10 grand, what do I buy?" gets asked every other day) so often that it's got to be discussed!

Possibly true, yes. The OP seems to be considering all opinions at least!

Yep, it's one of the better ones. But it's still a city boy setting up a farm in a place where there's no other farms. Are there no farms there because the city boy is the first one to come up with the idea, or are there no farms there because the land is crap and nothing would grow, so nobody else bothers?

The city boy applies city principle and says "My business plan says it'll work", buys a load of tractors and combines and fertiliser and spends the next 3 months spraying everything and harvesting stuff and whatever. But the reason the land was vacant is, yes, it's crap land. So nothing's getting harvested, no matter how cheap he tries to sell it, nobody's interested. And he ends up selling the machinery, selling the land to the next gullible idiot, and goes back to selling double glazing.

Had he worked on a farm before, he'd have spotted the rubbish land a mile off. But because he didn't really understand it, and thought that he could do everything once he'd learned to drive a combine and a tractor, he spent a fortune developing a business that could never exist.

Most of the "I want to build a studio" threads on here are just never going to take off. I like the fact that this guy's thought about it, but I think the farmer example is just the same as the OPs situation. If nobody's building houses on the sand, it doesn't mean you're the hottest smartass in town by building yours on it. There might be a reason everyone built them on the rocks.

Personally, I never want to run a studio as such. I have a share in a production room, which lets me personally be more productive (ie it makes me money) but I don't run it commercially - it's strictly there to make me a more attractive proposition for hire. It's cheap enough that I don't have to actively work or advertise to fill it, but good enough that I can do overdubs as good there as if I were in a commercial room.

Agreed, I seem to get a lot of flack for 'not being a studio owner'; to be honest, I pay the studio owner where I do all my work a rental fee of £not-a-lot; (unless I'm covering his sessions), and when I'm not in the studio, I'm not paying to keep the desk switched on or the PT Rig updated or just the rain out. I don't think there's anything to complain about with not having to own the studio. There's just a strange misconception out there that the reason you're not getting work is that you don't have your own studio. The reality is nothing of the sort, you're not getting work because people either don't want you or haven't heard of you. If they don't want you, having a studio won't help; and if they haven't heard of you, having a studio won't suddenly advertise it to the world!

[swamper]

I'm starting a new recording and rehearsal facility in South Fla. called MARKEE RECORDING N REHEARSAL. I owned another facility for 10 years down here called Ridenour Recording n Rehearsal and sold it in 2003. The new facility will be recording, rehearsal, music lessons, jam camps, retail music supplies etc. My question really is about recording studio gear, as a songwriter I work in many different studio's in Nashville and Florida on Pro Tools, Logic, DP and Radar. However as a new business it seems that according to public perceptiion you have to have Pro Tools. Many of you know that you can make a great sounding record in a bedroom on any of these platforms if you know what you're doing, but if you want to be state of the art, and have several engineers working on projects in the facility, it seems Pro Tools is the answer. I would love to hear some feedback if anyone is interested. Thanks A Million, Keith Ridenour

[The Byre]

A great number of composers (sing-songwriter types) seem to be going for Logic today, so having both would be definite plus. The cheap and easy way for you could be an Alpha-Link and a Power Mac with PT HD9 (native) and Logic.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by The Byre

A great number of composers (sing-songwriter types) seem to be going for Logic today, so having both would be definite plus. The cheap and easy way for you could be an Alpha-Link and a Power Mac with PT HD9 (native) and Logic.

It's far cheaper to buy 2nd hand TDM. And more capable.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by swamper

I'm starting a new recording and rehearsal facility in South Fla. called MARKEE RECORDING N REHEARSAL. I owned another facility for 10 years down here called Ridenour Recording n Rehearsal and sold it in 2003. The new facility will be recording, rehearsal, music lessons, jam camps, retail music supplies etc. My question really is about recording studio gear, as a songwriter I work in many different studio's in Nashville and Florida on Pro Tools, Logic, DP and Radar. However as a new business it seems that according to public perceptiion you have to have Pro Tools. Many of you know that you can make a great sounding record in a bedroom on any of these platforms if you know what you're doing, but if you want to be state of the art, and have several engineers working on projects in the facility, it seems Pro Tools is the answer. I would love to hear some feedback if anyone is interested. Thanks A Million, Keith Ridenour

To be honest, if this is your studio and you're just going to be the only engineer doing all inclusive stuff (tracking, mixing, mastering with the same band / project), then any of the software is fine for making a great track. Logic, PT, DP, whatever - they're all equal really. Just depends what gets you the best results and is easiest to use.

However, if you want to have freelancers using your place, or bands coming in to mix from another tracking place, or whatever; then PT is more important as it's the industry standard so it's what people will expect you to have.

[Andl]

Where abouts in Wales are you? If you are thinking of setting up rehearsal rooms in South Wales I'd stop now, it's well covered.

[chrissyb]

If I was doing this again - and I have been involved in one commercial operation in London, I would put the recording aside for the time being, and as others have stated concentrate on the rehearsals.

I would consider looking across the whole of the UK. For example, my until relatively recently I'm fairly certain there were no commercial rehearsal spaces in my home city of Lincoln. When I was playing in bands there we played in garages - made a racket, got into trouble - our parents would have probably paid for us to go into a commercial unit. There are such spaces now - but not many, not for it's size I don't believe. I just think that if you look around in especially in small to medium size places, you might find an opportunity.

Many of the places I rehearsed in London, offered recording, but they weren't even pretending to be commercial studios. If you can knock out a decent demo - you're on your way, and you develop that side of the business, and your skills from there. You could even hook up with an act that becomes successful - and develop your career with them.

But you're still going to need a significant amount of investment...

[jumbo]

Sounds like a great plan. Good luck. You might be surprised how your business may unfold, all I can say is keep an open mind to any possibilities. I too started a recording studio in a commercial premises and ran music lessons just to cover rent and bring in a little extra income when recording was slow. Slowly but surely, the music lessons totally outgrew the recording studio, so I had to move the recording studio out. Now my music school is probably one of the biggest private music schools in Sydney, and now I consider my recording studio as no more than a hobby or a means to record some of our students.