Is this it?!

[CISUM]

I mean is this it?!?
All I see and hear now is how record sales are down, torrents here, download there.
This band calling it quits, starting a fashion line etc etc...
So what happened to good ol making music, making money and supporting yourself from it?!

Is the music industry just over, and those who have carved somewhat of a nitch, or has the connections will continue to move forward?! Or should musicians and artists just create music now for the love with absolute no means of making it, because from what I see, unless your Lady GAGA or Taylor Swift, your chances are better to be a drag queen working on the weekends in a dive bar?!

Any opinions?!

[2N1305]

Well, I can't speak for L.A., nor anywhere in the USA for that matter (I'm up north), but sadly I believe you are right. Or if not, then you're darn close. Because that's what I think is happening too, in a sense.

It seems, at least for the young generation (30 yrs old and younger) have no interest in buying RECORDS and I use the term records to represent albums, whatever their form: CD, well, jeez, I guess that's it (okay there is a niche market for new LPs but we won't talk about that). They just want to hear the music, on their portable I-whatever and car mp3 player. That's fine, but I have no friends who like to just buy a freaking album (much less buy Vinyl like me) and play it, at your home, on your stereo (not f?%$ng "home theatre") while looking, if not even admiring, the album cover, booklet, or both. Well I had one friend who liked to do that. Anyway, it is not what it used to be before the internet.

So if I have to point fingers, I'll point it at THE INTERNET, or rather THE DOWNLOADABLE MUSIC INDUSTRY. I'm not shouting, I just want to emphasize, clearly what I mean. By the way I am sorry for going on so long. Thoughts seem longer when they are written rather than spoken.

I guess it's just going with what people demand: a quick way to get music, being able to sample what you want to buy (wasn't that always possible in a music store?) before you buy, and being able to bring with you the equivalent of 500 albums of music with you at all times in your pocket.

Only people with musical inclination, or technical interest (in that I include all GS members) give a hoot about all the stuff that went into the music, who composed it, who recorded it, etc. Who else can care that the Stones recorded their greatest hit, Satisfaction, in mono?(okay, mixed in mono) Maybe it's because I am just hooked on everything musical.

OK I'm cutting it there!

[2N1305]

Originally Posted by CISUM

So what happened to good ol making music, making money and supporting yourself from it?!
...
Or should musicians and artists just create music now for the love with absolute no means of making it...

Any opinions?!

One more thing ("Bitch" is playing as I'm writing this) apparently the big labels don't want to risk signing anything that sounds vintage, classic, because retro is "out". So I guess, yes, musicians will have to do what they like to do out of love of doing it, or just gigging... Maybe not to the extreme of "no means of making it", by which I think you're saying can't get a record deal, but certainly no chance of ever getting into the BIG spotlight...

As we say in french, "c'est d'valeur..." (it's too bad)

[The Byre]

The real problem is that nobody has come up with anything really new since about 2000 and not much after 1990.

We are all still playing 4:4 Chuck Berry tunes, only now we are doing it badly and without good lyrics, key changes, breaks, middle eights, or indeed anything that might make anybody want to rush out and buy the stuff.

[Batchainpuller78]

I don't think you can blame it on the music, it's a whole industry that has been stolen period.

[12ax7]

..

Do NOT confuse the decline of a CARTEL (of previously-established moguls) with the downfall of an industry!

I know artists who are doing pretty damn well WITHOUT those bozos (thank you very much).

I certainly sympathize with those who have built their businesses around a scheme that they thought would continue ad infinitum.

...But that does NOT mean that they were correct to do so; nor does it mean that people will stop making, enjoying, buying, or selling music!

It just means that those who wish to survive (or better yet, to prevail in) this change must adapt to a new reality.

Painful for some, yes.

...But I say good riddance to bad rubbish!

The fools who thought they would forever sit in judgment of what would be available to the consumer are now no longer needed!

The artist and the listener can now make their own deals.

If that makes someone uncomfortable, well, I'm sorry.

[bass man]

As jazz musician , band leader and sideman, for 15 years at least all I can tell you is
" Its ****ing unbelievable " .
Its so ****ing bad that I refuse to believe its actually happening ....

I feel really sorry for the youngsters. They are starting to practice now and to play their instruments , make bands and record Cd's , Oh man ....

It just sucks really bad but I just finished my new CD - cant help it being an optimist ....

[acoustic12]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

..

The fools who thought they would forever sit in judgment of what would be available to the consumer are now no longer needed!

The artist and the listener can now make their own deals.

If that makes someone uncomfortable, well, I'm sorry.

Send me all your work for 2 bucks. (Or I will download it free off the net).

How's that for a deal?

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by acoustic12

Send me all your work for 2 bucks. (Or I will download it free off the net).

How's that for a deal?

I'll sell you all my work for $25..It consists of about 600 songs, for your "listening enjoyment"....

Or you can search through broken torrents, sometimes filled with malware, and download some of them.. Really, if you're someone who loves the band enough. Most likely, you'll be a person who will create hype which = sales as miniscule as one person may be. It adds up.

Paying the street team with free merch seems cheaper than some enormous add budget.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by acoustic12

Send me all your work for 2 bucks. (Or I will download it free off the net).

How's that for a deal?

No and no.

(See how this works?)

[Washington]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

..

Do NOT confuse the decline of a CARTEL (of previously-established moguls) with the downfall of an industry!

(...)

It just means that those who wish to survive (or better yet, to prevail in) this change must adapt to a new reality.

Damn right. And not to be confused either is the music business and the music itself.

As for adapting to y new reality, this is just the human fate, no more and no less. I believe those who discovered you could suddenly "can" music on a wax cylinder and that the singer himself was not necessary anymore everytime one would want to enjoy his craft must have experienced a bolder shove than we do.

We desperately crave for stability and models carved in stone. But nothing in life is ever linear. Peaks, valleys and cycles, Baby. The times they are a-changing, well, you bet... It started billion years ago for the amoebae, and will pretty much go on after Lady Gaga (not so far from said amoebae, precisely).

[Barfunkel]

They used to ride horses and use them as a manual labor in the fields. Then they invented the motor and horses had no more work. So the horses turned themselves into sausages, and found a new way to make money out of themselves.

You must find your own inner sausage if you want to keep making money in this business. Selling records for living doesn't work anymore, unless you're a big star.

[Washington]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

So the horses turned themselves into sausages, and found a new way to make money out of themselves.

Remarkable analogy. Assuredly appreciated in the US, I reckon...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by CISUM

Is the music industry just over

The "industry" as it has been known and glamourized is pretty much over as far as I can tell. BUT. the image from 30 years ago is driving hundreds and thousands - probably TENS of thousands into it, and they have no clue that it is only a mirage. It doesn't exist anymore.

To have a "career" now in the music biz, you must be committed beyond all logical common sense, be committed to a life of lower class income, and committed to VERY hard work. That's not what the thousands are signing up for, and the fallout is wrecking things for those who ARE committed.

It's not the fall of the record companies that is hurting the business - new business models spring up all the time. It's the devaluation of music to the general public and associated industries (such as TV / Film / Radio / internet / etc.) If music is devalued, people pay less for it - or not at all. That affects everything else from the price of a microphone to whether or not you can afford health insurance.

It's a sad commentary on the "business' side of music. And unfortunately for all who like to eat and have a place to live, business is what drives things.....

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

They used to ride horses and use them as a manual labor in the fields. Then they invented the motor and horses had no more work. So the horses turned themselves into sausages, and found a new way to make money out of themselves.

You must find your own inner sausage if you want to keep making money in this business. Selling records for living doesn't work anymore, unless you're a big star.

No, thank you.

I'd rather find my "inner owner," rather than my "inner sausage" (which, by the way, sounds quite perverse}.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by CISUM

I mean is this it?!?
All I see and hear now is how record sales are down, torrents here, download there.
This band calling it quits, starting a fashion line etc etc...
So what happened to good ol making music, making money and supporting yourself from it?!

Is the music industry just over, and those who have carved somewhat of a nitch, or has the connections will continue to move forward?! Or should musicians and artists just create music now for the love with absolute no means of making it, because from what I see, unless your Lady GAGA or Taylor Swift, your chances are better to be a drag queen working on the weekends in a dive bar?!

Any opinions?!

Well it happened to theater, why cant it happen to music?, IMHO music stopped being music around 10-11 years ago, i mean even in the 90s there were bands doing new stuff, right now is just like you say it, music stopped being music and now its only a sound based product, thats it... Although i still have the hope that this is only temporary, anything can happen, it may even go worse, but i hope it gets better.

This is the best explanation i've heard so far:

"People get art and commerce mixed up, once you can separate the two of them, and see that art is art and commerce is commerce and understand that this business (the music biz) is commerce, then it makes much more sense." --Questlove

[J Ingram]

Music appeals to one of our limited senses that all humans are given. That fact alone will ensure that making beautiful music will ALWAYS have value. Always be looking out to expand your skillset and create value for yourself as an audio professional. The fact is, engineers used to just engineer, now I believe engineers should be much more involved in a "producer" kind of way. Bands used to just make music, now they should be actively involved in generating business plans and marketing themselves. Dont let a lack of adaptation lead you to believe that the business is dead.

[skylabfilmpop]

"So what happened to good ol making music, making money and supporting yourself from it?!"

I was lucky enough to be making music in bands in the 1990's and early 2000's. It was artistically a heyday, a very cool time. Ironically very few people outside of a small percentage made more as artists, even if signed to a label, than a few hundred dollars a week advance/stipend, if they even got that far. So it begs the question, can you generate $300 a week from your music? if so then you are doing as well as the majority of artists from even those days prior to the decline of the record industry. I don't think its that hard. The Los Angeles band "The 88" is a great example of a band that has been a great financial success of its own merits. For the majority of history musicians have been for the most part and outside of the classical realm, wandering minstrels. The idea, that only really originated maybe 50 years ago that you can write a song, record it and then on its merit have lear jets and mansions around the world filled with guitars ala John Entwistle is the anomoly, and we are just in a period of adjustment from that anomoly, until someone figures a medium in which to embed music that can't be ripped. I don't have a lot of faith in that, so its back to the role of wandering minstrel, which is really where the majority of musicians have always been.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by skylabfilmpop

"So what happened to good ol making music, making money and supporting yourself from it?!"

I was lucky enough to be making music in bands in the 1990's and early 2000's. It was artistically a heyday, a very cool time. Ironically very few people outside of a small percentage made more as artists, even if signed to a label, than a few hundred dollars a week advance/stipend, if they even got that far. So it begs the question, can you generate $300 a week from your music? if so then you are doing as well as the majority of artists from even those days prior to the decline of the record industry. I don't think its that hard. The Los Angeles band "The 88" is a great example of a band that has been a great financial success of its own merits. For the majority of history musicians have been for the most part and outside of the classical realm, wandering minstrels. The idea, that only really originated maybe 50 years ago that you can write a song, record it and then on its merit have lear jets and mansions around the world filled with guitars ala John Entwistle is the anomoly, and we are just in a period of adjustment from that anomoly, until someone figures a medium in which to embed music that can't be ripped. I don't have a lot of faith in that, so its back to the role of wandering minstrel, which is really where the majority of musicians have always been.

There's a huge chasm between $300 a week and lear jets and mansions. I'd guess that most musicians would be happy being able to just live a relatively normal life. No lear jet required, but health insurance, food, a modest house and maybe some retirement someday would be preferred.