Pete waterman on ch4 news...

[Ozzy]

Just seen pete waterman pubically and furiously speaking out against pirate bay, and illegal downloads in general.

I think he made fair and valid points. One sticks in my mind, when asked if the industry should change to accomodate downloads he answered, "these is only one business model for the music industry. The other is illeal."

Probaby be on channel4 ondemand to rewarch.

Anyone else see it?

Oz

[Back2D80s]

Yeah, just watched old Pete Waterman rant and rave, and to be honest I couldn't stop laughing.

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

Yeah Pete all you want, the good thing about piracy is there is less money for commercial moguls to make and it just might mean real artists will get a look in providing us all with better music.

[Jack Ruston]

No. It won't. It'll mean that it's almost impossible rather than just difficut, to get labels to take a chance on interesting bands. Already bands are having to look elsewhere for funding. The cash that pw etc generated provided opportunities for other acts.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Back2D80s

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

"listening Public" Most of the public are immune to actually listening - that is the problem, they just 'hear' whatever they are given.

[bof]

Originally Posted by Back2D80s

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

You seem to be forgetting that Pete works in the Music Business - the key word there being business. Don't knock a man for creating one of the most successful business empires in pop history.

The public gets what the public wants.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Back2D80s

Yeah, just watched old Pete Waterman rant and rave, and to be honest I couldn't stop laughing.

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

Yeah Pete all you want, the good thing about piracy is there is less money for commercial moguls to make and it just might mean real artists will get a look in providing us all with better music.

Oh Dear.......doesn't sound like you've ever lived off music......also quite curious why you choose such a name, when the 80's were so painful for you.....lol

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by bof

Don't knock a man for creating one of the most successful business empires in pop history.

Great business, yeah - Sh*t music though.

Originally Posted by bof

The public gets what the public wants.

Ask the chinese if the concur?...

[bof]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Great business, yeah - Sh*t music though.

Some of it was sh*t, but a lot of it was waaaaay better than what we have now. PWL songs almost invariably had catchy hooks and infectious dance-floor beats, along with interesting chord progressions and key changes. I hated it at the time but now...? Oh that I could write sh*t as good as that.

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Ask the chinese if the concur?...

When was the last time you were in China? Don't just regurgitate someone else's opinion. Do some research and form your own.

[creegstor]

Originally Posted by bof

The public gets what the public wants.

The public wants what the public gets.

[bof]

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by Back2D80s

Yeah, just watched old Pete Waterman rant and rave, and to be honest I couldn't stop laughing.

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

Yeah Pete all you want, the good thing about piracy is there is less money for commercial moguls to make and it just might mean real artists will get a look in providing us all with better music.

You've just registered for this??

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by bof

When was the last time you were in China? Don't just regurgitate someone else's opinion. Do some research and form your own.

That's true the chinese do not really want democracy and the Zimbabwe people really do want to keep Mugabe.

I will have to assume the global press are liars and go there myself to check if its all just a big con.

Putting aside my empiricism of China and Zimbabwe...Pete Waterman's music still sucks.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

That's true the chinese do not really want democracy and the Zimbabwe people really do want to keep Mugabe.

I will have to assume the global press are liars and go there myself to check if its all just a big con.

Putting aside my empiricism of China and Zimbabwe...Pete Waterman's music still sucks.

.....quite like the ol Dead or Alive one though, before the other Pete started disfiguring himself.....

[bof]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

That's true the chinese do not really want democracy and the Zimbabwe people really do want to keep Mugabe.

Pete Waterman to Robert Mugabe in just three posts? Impressive!

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Pete Waterman's music still sucks.

You're perfectly entitled to dislike his music. But why don't you check out Pete Waterman's Discography, then ask yourself who's opinion is worth more to the readers of this forum? Yours or His?

[guittarzzan]

We all have our opinions on what is crap and what is good. Me personally, I'd wear a tube top and play air guitar for Cher if it gave me the money to quit my day job and have more time and money to put into the music I really love to do.
I tip my hat to anyone making a solid living in the music biz. Love or hate the music-it's still a success.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by guittarzzan

We all have our opinions on what is crap and what is good. Me personally, I'd wear a tube top and play air guitar for Cher if it gave me the money to quit my day job and have more time and money to put into the music I really love to do.
I tip my hat to anyone making a solid living in the music biz. Love or hate the music-it's still a success.

Sorry, but that is all fine in theory.....if you actually do hate the music it gets a little trickier in reality than that........of course, usually, whether cheesy music or not, it's the people who DON'T hate but actuall like whatever music they're doing who have the success, as music made by people who don't even like it themselves tends to lack pondus of any sort......this regardless of genre.....

[guittarzzan]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Sorry, but that is all fine in theory.....if you actually do hate the music it gets a little trickier in reality than that........of course, usually, whether cheesy music or not, it's the people who DON'T hate but actuall like whatever music they're doing who have the success, as music made by people who don't even like it themselves tends to lack pondus of any sort......this regardless of genre.....

I think you missed the point. My point was that you can't knock his success even if you think his music is crap. If totally selling out for a while meant I'd have the money to do the music I really love, it'd be worth it to me because in the end, I'd have the financial freedom to really do what I love. Not much different than working a day job to provide a means so one can enjoy the things in life they love.
Obviously, if you can make a good living doing the music you love, you're livin' the dream a lot of people are chasing. Most of us aren't...yet.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by guittarzzan

I think you missed the point. My point was that you can't knock his success even if you think his music is crap. If totally selling out for a while meant I'd have the money to do the music I really love, it'd be worth it to me because in the end, I'd have the financial freedom to really do what I love. Not much different than working a day job to provide a means so one can enjoy the things in life they love.
Obviously, if you can make a good living doing the music you love, you're livin' the dream a lot of people are chasing. Most of us aren't...yet.

Sorry to persist, but it seems you are the one who missed the point. Point being that if you already call it "selling out", the result isn't likely to make you any money..........it will if you happen to not hate the commercial style and actually can put some of your "essence" into it, creating a result that is alive and so on........generally the theory of "just selling out for a while" doesn't work because of this (as you're already saying you don't like the music, so how will you give it any life?)and only the guys who actually like the stuff you might call sellout music will have success with it......try it out.....you'll soon see what I mean....

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Back2D80s

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

Originally Posted by bof

You seem to be forgetting that Pete works in the Music Business - the key word there being business. Don't knock a man for creating one of the most successful business empires in pop history.

The public gets what the public wants.

Yeah that was the music biz mantra re PWL in the 90's - "you can't knock it". Well - despite being repeatedly told that we could not - ....... ....Many of us did! I am not sure how the well history books will regard his influence on pop culture.

He comes across as an interesting character as he seemed very in your face and militant about his commercialism..

Is there a link to him talking about Pirate Bay?

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by bof

P...ask yourself who's opinion is worth more to the readers of this forum? Yours or His?

I could care less whether my opinion about PW matters to Gearslutz - I do not need their or your approval to validate or authenticate what is real to me.

I guess the approval of others matters to you though eh?...

[guittarzzan]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Sorry to persist, but it seems you are the one who missed the point. Point being that if you already call it "selling out", the result isn't likely to make you any money..........it will if you happen to not hate the commercial style and actually can put some of your "essence" into it, creating a result that is alive and so on........generally the theory of "just selling out for a while" doesn't work because of this (as you're already saying you don't like the music, so how will you give it any life?)and only the guys who actually like the stuff you might call sellout music will have success with it......try it out.....you'll soon see what I mean....

You just don't get it. I would do a disco album and go on tour for a year if the immediate profits and royalties gave me enough to live off of and work on my own stuff for the years to come. Yes, it would be temporarily selling out. Yes, I wouldn't have my heart in it, but also...YES I would have the means to really do what I wanted. ...so, back to my original statement: I'd wear a tube top and play air guitar for Cher if it gave me enough money to do the stuff I really wanted to do. It may not be your choice, but I'm really not concerned with that.
I tip my hat to anyone who's made a good living in this industry regardless of how true to their sould they remained. The money means almost nothing on it's own, but the freedom it provides really is priceless.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by guittarzzan

You just don't get it. I would do a disco album and go on tour for a year if the immediate profits and royalties gave me enough to live off of and work on my own stuff for the years to come. Yes, it would be temporarily selling out. Yes, I wouldn't have my heart in it, but also...YES I would have the means to really do what I wanted. ...so, back to my original statement: I'd wear a tube top and play air guitar for Cher if it gave me enough money to do the stuff I really wanted to do. It may not be your choice, but I'm really not concerned with that.
I tip my hat to anyone who's made a good living in this industry regardless of how true to their sould they remained. The money means almost nothing on it's own, but the freedom it provides really is priceless.

I'll make my point one last time......if you make music you're heart is not in on some level you are rather unlikely to make any money with it. I'm out.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I'll make my point one last time......if you make music you're heart is not in on some level you are rather unlikely to make any money with it. I'm out.

Wouldn't that theory then mean that all of the music out there that was recorded with session musicans wouldn't make money? They session musicians were there for a paycheck, and they may or may not have been particularly into the music they were playing. But clearly a lot of music done with session musicans has done quite well, and some of it of course went way beyond just doing well commercially and became all time classics that are highly respected as well.

[guittarzzan]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I'll make my point one last time......if you make music you're heart is not in on some level you are rather unlikely to make any money with it. I'm out.

Millions of dollars have been made with odds that were "unlikely". I'll grab my tube top and take those odds. You can sit on the sidelines yelling, "the world is flat!"

[guittarzzan]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Wouldn't that theory then mean that all of the music out there that was recorded with session musicans wouldn't make money? They session musicians were there for a paycheck, and they may or may not have been particularly into the music they were playing. But clearly a lot of music done with session musicans has done quite well, and some of it of course went way beyond just doing well commercially and became all time classics that are highly respected as well.

...and how many musicians have gone on tour with big name acts even though it may not have been really their favorite flavor of music. A paycheck is a paycheck.

[Trev@Circle]

Originally Posted by creegstor

Quote:
"Originally Posted by bof
The public gets what the public wants."

The public wants what the public gets.

"But I don't get what this society wants..."

[name that tune]

[utters]

going underground!

[bof]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

I could care less...

Aha! That's what was confusing me. Your location says London but you were obviously educated in America. I couldn't understand why you were so quick to jump on the Chinese. It's such an American habit that I'd assumed you'd picked it up here on Gearslutz. Clearly, you've formed your own opinion by reading the highly objective US press and watching Fox News. ;-)

I'm afraid that reflex China bashing is a pet hate of mine as it's pure bigotry and one step removed from racism. By automatically slandering China for no relevant reason in only your second post in this thread about an entirely unrelated subject, you have revealed your true colours along with your poor understanding of world history, geo-politics and cultural development. You fit very squarely into the cultural stereotype that you now inhabit. It's people like you who give people like you a bad name.

Enough. I've been down this dead end far too many times to continue.

Yes. I totally agree with everything you say. Bye bye.

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

I guess the approval of others matters to you though...

LOL! If only you knew...

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

...eh?

Wait a minute, maybe you're Canadian. In which case, I apologise.

[Dean Roddey]

Yeah, just watched old Pete Waterman rant and rave, and to be honest I couldn't stop laughing.

Here is a man who should himself be tried for crimes against music. I grew up in the 80s and had to endure the mass produced utter tripe which Waterman bands inflicted on the listening public week after week, year after year.

Yeah Pete all you want, the good thing about piracy is there is less money for commercial moguls to make and it just might mean real artists will get a look in providing us all with better music.

You know, someone mentioned this in another thread and I just passed it by. But have you noticed how many anti-music business comments in these threads are from people who just signed up and are making their few few posts? Is it just a coincidence?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by guittarzzan

...and how many musicians have gone on tour with big name acts even though it may not have been really their favorite flavor of music. A paycheck is a paycheck.

I'm talking about making (=writing) the music....not playing parts for someone....anyway....sure, it's not a 100% theory, but you'll find it pretty hard to write stuff that you don't like and get other people really excited about it....and even if you do, I very much doubt you'd be very happy spending your time doing it......