Pete waterman on ch4 news...

[bof]

Originally Posted by Jules

Yeah that was the music biz mantra re PWL in the 90's - "you can't knock it". Well - despite being repeatedly told that we could not - ....... ....Many of us did! I am not sure how the well history books will regard his influence on pop culture.

I'm not sure, either. My personal view is that SAW were incredible craftsmen of pop music, among the best in pop history. SAW alone (not counting PWL) wrote and/or produced over 100 UK top 40 singles in a six year period. If that was an easy thing to do then we'd all be doing it, wouldn't we? I'm not surprised they came in for heavy criticism from a large portion of the music industry, many of whom would have been enjoying rather less success.

Yes, it was formulaic. Yes, it was heavily marketed. But those points tended to cloud the fact that they were truly great pop songs. I've never owned a single SAW single or album in my life and I hated their songs with a passion in the 80s, like many others in the music business. But I just checked their discography and, not counting covers, I could sing the chorus to 15 SAW songs. I can't think of too many songwriters that I could say that about.

Some have said that SAW gave birth to a business model that has led to a terrible decline in the pop industry (although I can't see how was it so different from Motown) Even if that's true, you can't really blame them. They were trying to get rich making music like everybody else and there have been many other contributing factors to pop's demise.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by bof

I couldn't understand why you were so quick to jump on the Chinese. ...I'm afraid that reflex China bashing is a pet hate of mine as it's pure bigotry and one step removed from racism. By automatically slandering China for no relevant reason in only your second post

Hmm, So I was bashing China was I?

No actually my points about China and Zimbabwe were in direct response to you assertion that "The public gets what the public wants" comment. because I thought it was ill considered and naive. In fact if we observe the circumstance of many people in the world it is quite the opposite.

Originally Posted by bof

You seem to be forgetting that Pete works in the Music Business - the key word there being business. Don't knock a man for creating one of the most successful business empires in pop history.

Similarly McDonalds is a business. It is a fast food retail outlet, very very successful.

Kentucky Fried Chicken is a very profitable business - makes very large profits.

Both of theses businesses serve the fast food retail industry very well and are ubiquitous beacons of global achievement. IMHO the food from these 'restaurants' is awful.

I have no ill will or envy towards any of the three highly successful entrepreneur producers, but - SAW are the McDonald's of the music industry - I do not enjoy their food, my ears have no appetite for it.

imho.

[Watty]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

SAW are the McDonald's of the music industry - I do not enjoy their food, my ears have no appetite for it.

+1.

[mobilemozart]

Stock, Aitken, Waterman were always loving what they were doing - by heart! Anyway, I believe that 90% professional musicians and even songwriters feed their kids with money made with music thats not their favorite music. Thats what separates them from the hobbyists. Professionals get paid.

Just my opinion...

Cheers,
Marc

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I'm talking about making (=writing) the music....not playing parts for someone....anyway....sure, it's not a 100% theory, but you'll find it pretty hard to write stuff that you don't like and get other people really excited about it....and even if you do, I very much doubt you'd be very happy spending your time doing it......

[mobilemozart]

Few notes:

1. SAW were successful twenty years ago. None of them write or produce big hits these days.

2. Many of us eat at McDonalds - at least occassionally, right?

3.Most of us know many if not most of SAW's hits, right? Those who were teenagers at the end of the 80s surely went to some clubs where they played SAW music - even if it was for the girls.

As always, IMHO!!

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Hmm, So I was bashing China was I?
I have no ill will or envy towards any of the three highly successful entrepreneur producers, but - SAW are the McDonald's of the music industry - I do not enjoy their food, my ears have no appetite for it.

imho.

[Jules]

The "PWL / SAW are (were) terrible" VS "You can't knock it" debate continues..

But it's veering off the Pirate Bay topic!