Recording a Demo(is that a bad word?)

[dbm]

Alright. My band just got kicked off with our first show Friday night. It went really well and we were told by a more prominent band that he was interested in getting us started playing shows some of the bigger bands in our areas local scene. Good news to hear after a first show.

Ok, so, we have been working on getting a small 3 song demo recorded at my place so that we can pass out some stuff after shows and get a decent sounding recording to present ourselves in a way that we can be proud of. We have laid down a lot of the guitars etc, but I have pretty much written off the idea of jusing Superior 2.0 for the drum tracks. It sounds good, but I can NOT program the subtleties of our drummer(who is insane).

So, I would like to get him in a studio containing a decent kit and get him to knock out the drum tracks. Ideally I would love to get the tracks separately so we can mix them at the house. Money is definitely an issue here. We can not afford to record 3 tracks in full and the drums are far and away the largest detriment to the overall sound.

Questions:

1. Is this something that studios do or is this just a big no-no to ask for?

2. How would you guys suggest handling the actually recording process for him? A click with a headphone feed of the other instuments or what?

[Umami Uni]

No offense but I'm kind of surprised to see a member with so many posts asking these simple questions, but I guess its different strokes for different folks.

To answer Question 1:

You can do whatever you want to do in a studio that you're PAYING TIME FOR. So yes, go ahead and book a place and get some drum tracks down.

2: Yes have you drum man able to play to a click so when he needs to pull the trigger in the studio he can with ease and confidence. (this of course being possible if the songs were recorded to a click track )

[dbm]

No offense taken. While I have been recording my own stuff(badly) for a while and asking questions regarding that stuff, my post count comes from spending way too much time in the political forum.

[ScumBum]

How many inputs do you have ? Probably two , record the drums yourself , one mic for overhead and one on kick . Or one mic in front of the drums a few feet works good too .


Or book a day at a local studio . Most have a house drum kit you can use . If your drummer has not used a click before I wouldn't use one . Instead record drums and maybe guitar and bass scratch tracks with him .

[dbm]

As in before we go record scratch tracks for him to play to? I would prefer not to use a click track because it seems so dynamically stifling and hard to get right.

Would it be possible for us to play with him in the studio without recording the other instruments so he has something to get the emotion right? I know he would prefer that, I just dont know what the options are.

[TheRealRoach]

If I were in your position I would spend money recording one song really really well rather than 3 at "demo" quality. It's better to have people wanting more after listening to one song, then feeling like they've had enough after three.

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by dbm

As in before we go record scratch tracks for him to play to? I would prefer not to use a click track because it seems so dynamically stifling and hard to get right.

Would it be possible for us to play with him in the studio without recording the other instruments so he has something to get the emotion right? I know he would prefer that, I just dont know what the options are.

record the drums , guitar and bass at the same time , all you guys playing in the room together but run the guitar and bass direct so you only hear them on headphones but still record them for reference .

[dbm]

Thanks guys.

Off the original topic, but does anyone have any studio recommendations around Nashville that would fit the bill for a good value. Also, sticking with the original intent of drums only....and I know this is a really broad and tricky question....but does anyone have any notion what this would cost?

The song times would be: 1 @ 3.5 min and 2 @ 6 min. Assuming the drummer goes in and nails the tracks without an inordinate amount of screw ups.

Thats probably an impossible question....

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by dbm

Thanks guys.

Off the original topic, but does anyone have any studio recommendations around Nashville that would fit the bill for a good value. Also, sticking with the original intent of drums only....and I know this is a really broad and tricky question....but does anyone have any notion what this would cost?

The song times would be: 1 @ 3.5 min and 2 @ 6 min. Assuming the drummer goes in and nails the tracks without an inordinate amount of screw ups.

Thats probably an impossible question....

Heres a suggestion that might also work.........RENT the gear and track it at someones house or work warehouse . You can rent a 8 channel mic pre , converters and mics for a week end . Then track everything at the same time . You can do a whole album if you guys nail your parts fast .

[ScumBum]

Is that Assiah music your stuff ? I like it alot I'm a fan ,

Heres another suggestion after listening to your stuff . It sounds like your gonna want heavily produced drums , like Tool .

Make a practice CD for your drummer , mute out the electronic drums and replace it with a click track . Then maybe pan all the music to mainly one side and the click track on the other . Then let him practice to it for a few weeks . Then if you go to a studio let him use the practice CD to record to .

[dbm]

Wow, thanks!

Yes the new band is actually called Rintrah. I need to update my signature. Assiah stuff was all written by me so I figured, new band, new name. And yes, we are likely going to want a pretty heavily produced drum sound. Real close, not a lot of heavy room.

He practices to the tracks you listened to a lot. Ill set him up with a click to practice to like you suggested, thanks.

[ScumBum]

I was never a fan of TOOL , I like your stuff much better , but I can see where your music needs a kick ass killer drum sound like theirs , and the only way is with samples or VERY high end gear capturing a awesome drummer on a tuned kit .

The vocals remind me of Mike Patton at timesand the guitars kick ass ! I can hear the potential if your stuff was well produced and I heard it on the radio I'd buy your album .

[dbm]

Damn, thanks dude.

I have never gotten to hear whats in my head on CD. It sucks because I know that goes a long way towards a good impression on people.

[Infernal Device]

Originally Posted by TheRealRoach

It's better to have people wanting more after listening to one song, then feeling like they've had enough after three.

I wish bands would understand this.

[dbm]

I was thinking about this last night.

But where does it stop? Obviously I cant afford to go in to some Neve/API laden studio and record even 1 min of a song. So, obviously Im not going to attain the premium sound quality.

I am however looking for something which is enjoyable to listen to, which, at this point considering the state of consumer desire for seriously high fidelity(or lack thereof) shouldn't require oodles of money to attain.

Am I wrong?

[Taproot]

Take a little drive away from Nashville (3hrs.) and come down to Oxford and cut some tracks. I can get you some great tracks at reasonable rate.

[against88]

might be a little far, but this dude jason in atlanta did an EP for a band i work with and it sounds great. he's really cool and easy to work with - Spotlight Sound Studio | Atlanta, Georgia based Recording and Production Studio

[ScumBum]

I know what you mean , theres never an end , theres always some piece of gear that will take it to the next level .

The cheapest way is to do it yourself . Thats exactly why I went to school for recording , studied books , recorded bands for free , mixed anything I could , all so I could record my own music . Its alot of work , took me YEARS to get decent but it is the best when you don't have to rely on any one and record exactly what you want at any time for nothing . What I did alot of the times was have the band buy me a piece of gear to record their music . Eventually I got everything I need .

You can rent high end gear 8 channels of API or other pres , converters and mics for a few days and bang out your songs .

BUT is your engineering skills up to par ? If they are not then renting gear even though its the cheapest would be wasting your money . You gotta have some skill .

Check out that earlier post by Taproot , or other smaller studios that are cheap but still get you a good sound .

[dbm]

Just an update to this thread.

Our drummer just sold his soul for a set of Tama Starclassic Bubingas. So, we have the #1 most important thing, a great source. We also just wrote a new song and it solidified in my mind that recording him on the drums is irreplaceable.

His playing is much better than anything I could even think about doing electronically. So much so that any sound quality that might be lost by ditching the samples and going with a moderately priced studio would likely be far outweighed by his ability behind a set. He is insane.

Im going to start calling studios and getting prices today.

[dbm]

And im smart enough to realize that I have no business attempting to record them myself.

[newtonbach]

Hey DBM I'm new to GS as a member, but figured this is as good a place as any to pop in my first post on the site. But here's some ideas on this based on my experience, which is extensive in this area.

Toss out any previous recording done without the drummer.

1) Start with one song, the song that gets you the best feedback when you play live.

2) When you play live, record that song, over a period of a few gigs. Every gig and venue has it's own vibe, but there should be a time at one of those gigs while you're playing, when everyone looks at each other in the band, and realizes this is jelling. Listen back to that recording for that gig and find the tempo for the song, use that as your basis for the click for the drummer to follow when you record.

3) book some studio time, generally speaking you should find something around $60 per hour, especially if you can get a block. Book 4 hours (that's 60 bucks each for a 4 piece). Have your drummer bring the drums to the waiting room 1 hour before the session starts, to allow for the heads to acclimate. If everyone is on their game, allow 1.5 hours for setup.

4) Do 3 straight takes with the entire band without stopping for mistakes, (DON'T STOP) remember the primary goal is to use this time to record the things that are more difficult to do in your home studio, namely drums and vocals.

5) Assuming that you've been playing this live, you should wing through this in 30 minutes.

6) you now have 2 hours left. take a break while listening back to the 3 takes, focus on the drums first, note any issues on the timecode without stopping, then replay focusing on vocals.

7) That should have taken 1/2 hour with a nicotine break if needed.

8) you have 1/2 hour left to focus and repair any issues from a) the best drum take and B) the best vocal take.

9) Do Not waste time with "roll that back I'm not sure that's right".

10) Get a 24 bit wav of each individual track you recorded, make sure you put a time alignment signal at the beginning of each track. Hopefully you can shave some time off some of the above steps to make up for the bounce time you will use up on this step, otherwise this will exceed 4 hours.

7) If necessary, correct any guitar or bass or keyboard issues in your home studio.

8) Find a mixing engineer, generally speaking, for what you are trying to do you should fing someone who can mix this for around $300, who will give you a rough then final mix. For your price range it may be best to let them mix without you there, send you a copy to review, then correct those issues you have. It will eat more time and money if the entire band is mixing the song, and usually does not give a better result than a trusted ear that is not involved with the band.


Just some friendly advice, hope this helps. :-)

[dbm]

I very much appreciate the time and thought put into your post and I have some questions.

1. Is playing to a click pretty much standard or required? First, our drummer has never played to a click so Im not exactly sure how he would handle it. Also, a part of me feels like a click would serve to hinder the dynamics of a performance. What are the benefits of playing to a click, other than to guide the dynamics by forming the click around what we view as a good performance? Also, we have time signature and tempo changes in good performances, would that be an issue to take into account?

2. I spoke with a studio yesterday. They have several channels of neve and api, some decent outboard gear, a decently sized drum room and sound treated control room. Their base rate is 90/hr, but if we booked a full day(10-12 hrs according to the manager) we could bring the drums in the night before and have it all set up ready to get sounds right when we come in. The rate, with engineer would come out to 60/hr.

I was sincerely hoping that we could get 4-5 songs tracked in that amount of time, but from what you are saying, it seems that might be a bit unrealistic. It never fails that the one piece of feedback we get from live shows is that we are "tight", but I don't know that it will necessarily translate to a studio environment.

3. Im not sure how much stock I should put in the studio's gear or what I should be looking for. We are a 4 piece, 2 guitars, bass, and drummer.

4. How much weight should I put into a studios clientèle in regard to the type of music they generally record? We do progressive metal. Regarding tracking specifically, should I be looking for someone with lots of experience in our genre or is that more of an issue when it comes to mixing? My gut says both, but I don't honestly know.

I am open to opinions from anyone. My mindset on the whole matter has changed significantly from the start of the thread. I have heeded the advice of getting a smaller number of great recordings vs a large number of mediocre recordings. Ideally, we are shooting for a good quality 5 song EP now tracked. After tracking, our options are less limited. We know people around the area and can do a certain amount of overdubbing on our own.